Need Your Assistance With a Hybrid Build

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We're rolling a new game, and I'm the 5th man in, so it doesn't matter what class I play. We have a Fighter, Runepriest, Rogue, Seeker. DM assigned me this class.

We're starting at level 1... and will organically level up (hence the reason for basis magic items) to probably 24ish, not quickly, so my build has to be playable.

Here's what I was planning... your thoughts on where I should make changes?


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder======

Char, level 11
 Dragonborn
Barbarian/Sorcerer
Paragon Hybrid

Sorcerous Power Option: Sorcerous Power Strength

Hybrid Talent Option: Barbarian Armored Agility

Arcane Implement Proficiency Option: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)

Paragon Hybrid Talent Option: Soul of the Sorcerer Option: Dragon Soul

Dragon Soul Option: Dragon Soul Fire
D
ragonborn Racial Power Option: Dragon Breath

Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength

Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Fire
 


FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 22, CON 12, DEX 11, INT 9, WIS 11, CHA 21
 


STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 17, CON 11, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 16
 
 


AC: 29 Fort: 28 Ref: 22 Will: 26

HP: 75 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 19
 


TRAINED SKILLS
: Acrobatics +9, Athletics +15, Diplomacy +15
 


Dragonborn Racial Power: Dragon Breath

Barbarian Attack 1: Howling Strike

Sorcerer Attack 1: Burning Spray

Sorcerer Attack 1: Explosive Pyre

Sorcerer Attack 1: Dazzling Ray

Barbarian Utility 2: Shrug It Off

Barbarian Attack 3: Brutal Slam

Barbarian Attack 5: Rage of the Crimson Hurricane

Sorcerer Utility 6: Sudden Scales

Barbarian Attack 7: Curtain of Steel

Sorcerer Attack 7: Thunder Bomb

Barbarian Attack 9: Stoneroot Rage

Barbarian Utility 10: Heart Strike
 


FEATS

1: Hybrid Talent: Barbarian Armored Agility
2: Arcane Implement Proficiency

4: Implement Expertise (Heavy Blade)

6: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade)
8: Improved Defenses
10: Nusemnee's Atonement
Level
11: Ancient Soul
 

Paragon Hybrid Talent: Soul of the Sorcerer: Dragon Soul
You could try a Barbarian|Swordmage. Similar primal/arcane flavor, but works better mechanically. Swordmage automatically gives you the weapliment, and with Lightning Clash/Thundering Howl you have access to double taps from early heroic.
Wouldn't Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade and whatever) be better than Implement Expertise (Heavy Blade)?
That's an idea, I'll try that. Honestly, I wanted to be a Ranger... but my DM won't let me play twin strike.
No, the DM is great at the game. It's that he doesn't want me outshining the other players. For instance.. I made a human ranger|cleric that he says is better than the ranger and fighter hands down and it wasn't fun for anyone. He wants me to stay on par with others... not optimized fully. I've never played a twin strike ranger and it was something I was really looking forward to... but oh well. I just don't want to gimp myself so that I'm on par at level 1... but get left behind in late heroic/paragon.
No, the DM is great at the game. It's that he doesn't want me outshining the other players. For instance.. I made a human ranger|cleric that he says is better than the ranger and fighter hands down and it wasn't fun for anyone. He wants me to stay on par with others... not optimized fully. I've never played a twin strike ranger and it was something I was really looking forward to... but oh well. I just don't want to gimp myself so that I'm on par at level 1... but get left behind in late heroic/paragon.

He can't be good at a game he doesn't understand. Your post demonstrates he doesn't understand 4e.
He really is good. Trust me on this.... I've played dnd for years. And he's the best DM I've met. I get his logic... who wants some super dude at the table to outshine everyone else. I'm not out to bash my DM, just looking for constructive criticism on how to build a decent Barbarian|Sorcerer... since I'm never really played anything other than a fighter... and that's the challenge I was given.
Is it not possible to bring the rest of the table up to your level rather than dragging you down to their level?
Is it not possible to bring the rest of the table up to your level rather than dragging you down to their level?



Good luck, some players literary take offense when you try to give them suggestion on how to optimize. They're more in it for the roleplaying.
Is it not possible to bring the rest of the table up to your level rather than dragging you down to their level?


Face it, you can't win on these boards. When you ask how to deal with a solitary optimizer at a table of non-optimizers, people tell you to ask them to tone it down. And when someone comes with a question how not to break the game, the advice you get is to play a better class
Is it not possible to bring the rest of the table up to your level rather than dragging you down to their level?



Good luck, some players literary take offense when you try to give them suggestion on how to optimize. They're more in it for the roleplaying.



+1

Same case at my table. With a certain kind of people, you will lose your group over this kind of stuff.

Might I suggest trying to optimize a lower tier class?  I'm not suggesting going with a Binder or Vampire (though in low heroic they might think the vampire overpowered), but instead trying to optimize something whose ceiling isn't as high as a Cleric/Ranger (whose damage ceiling is among the highest out there).

Alternatively, depending on the roles of the party, try playing an enabler, or a defender, or a controller.  Something that contributes heavily to the party, but that doesn't spit out quite so much damage.  If you're dazing and proning opponents then suddenly you're a much friendlier player, especially if your non-optimizers are having trouble hitting. 
Might I suggest trying to optimize a lower tier class?  I'm not suggesting going with a Binder or Vampire (though in low heroic they might think the vampire overpowered), but instead trying to optimize something whose ceiling isn't as high as a Cleric/Ranger (whose damage ceiling is among the highest out there).

Alternatively, depending on the roles of the party, try playing an enabler, or a defender, or a controller.  Something that contributes heavily to the party, but that doesn't spit out quite so much damage.  If you're dazing and proning opponents then suddenly you're a much friendlier player, especially if your non-optimizers are having trouble hitting. 



The "optimize a gimped class instead" thing would work post late heroic, i guess. The "play an optimized non-striker" thing will only work if your fellow players are the only ones pissed by optimizing. If your DM got a problem with having an optimizer in party, playing optimized non-striker builds will make him mad, as well.
You're going to play a modified rebreather in a campaign that has problems with Twin Strike?
You're going to play a modified rebreather in a campaign that has problems with Twin Strike?



xD I just noticed. Ye, that's hilarious.
If you MC Swordmage instead of Arcane Implement you get Heavy Blade implements and (I think) training in Arcana.  Might be nice considering they maybe expecting you (a barbarian) to have Knowledge of Arcana.
I agree with the idea of optimizing a non-striker (including not making a non-striker who does striker level damage)... i would suggest a pary buffer, just bc w week allies, a controller or defender is just going to make combat go forzever... and if your dm is still upset, then it is his problem, it is the DM's role to make the game fun for his players... Tell him to read the dmg section on how to make different typess of players happy.

edit: it may also be that you dont have a character-op problem, but an interpersonal problem, which, if you read the boards, you will see we are better at creating than solving 
Okay, why don't we go with Barbarian|Sorcerer...kill the rebreather elements. I'd go like this for encounter powers:
1:
3: Flame Spiral
7: Thundering Howl
18 Str/Cha, 13 Dex, 11 Con

MC into Monk for Eternal Tide Flurry of Blows. That'll let you do this:
Flame Spiral
No Action: Pull 1: Do Flame Spiral extra damage, potentially against enemy that you missed.
Enemy starts turn: Do Flame Spiral extra damage.

So quick pick up of a multi-target triple tap at 3rd level plus the ability to wield a big weapon at the same time you use an implement. I wouldn't get Fullblade - focus on the things that add damage to both sides, not things that add +1 damage to both.
MWAO- OP has a DM that's upset because Twin Strike is too powerful.  The rebreather idea is just silly, but even with that, I suspect that Flame Spiral might be a problem in and of itself, especially with the auto-triple tap and still having Thundering Howl in reserve.  Now, it's conceivable that the other players will become vastly more powerful over the next few levels and that will stop being a problem...but do we think that's going to be the case?
I think I agree with going with a non-striker.  An enabling leader or a hybrid enabling leader would let you do a good build that doesn't overshadow everyone else.

You have up to 4 allies with potentially good basic attacks.  Warlord always works, Bard could work since you probably do not have any allies with a good charisma score (only maybe the rogue), and shaman could work too either an int build or eagle since you have a seeker who hopefully has a good RBA and the rogue might have one too.
He really is good. Trust me on this.... I've played dnd for years. And he's the best DM I've met. I get his logic... who wants some super dude at the table to outshine everyone else. I'm not out to bash my DM, just looking for constructive criticism on how to build a decent Barbarian|Sorcerer... since I'm never really played anything other than a fighter... and that's the challenge I was given.

Being a good DM in general and being a good DM for 4e are not neccesarily the same skill set. You simply can't be a good DM in a system you don't understand. I get paid to DM professionally for 4e and I simply could not do it for any other system, because I do not know those systems well enough, regardless of the storytelling skills that stay the same.

Twin Strike is, in and of itself, not an issue. Rangers do a lot of damage, but strikers in 4e are supposed to do a lot of damage. You aren't outshining anyone by doing your job. The perception that you are is the issue, and that perception comes from a lack of understanding. Now if you are saying he is so stubbornly ignorant that his perspective isn't going to change regardless of the facts and is instead assigning you what he wants you to play (two hallmarks of bad DMs, incidentally) then good luck you in your game.
Yet his point about the DM is valid, the DM needs to learn that in 4e strikers are supposed to be doing 2-3x the damage of other classes, if he's restricting what class someone can play and even "assigning" a character, that's a major trust/respect issue on top of the lack of system knowledge.

OP: Create the character you want to create, tell the DM you'll avoid using the broken powers unless it's needed to save the party, and then just do that. You can just charge stuff or use twin strike, and not use your IAs unless it means saving an ally.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
What Zathris said. You can avoid outshining your party through tactics and strategy rather than force-gimping your character.

The other option is to just go all-out support. Play a buffer/enabler that makes everyone else look good and you can optimize all you want. This is the only thing that's going to work if you feel you have to optimize - even your Barb/Sorc will probably be too strong for your DM in a few levels.

And for the record, a good DM should be striving to run a game where everyone can play what they want to play. Forcing you to play something that doesn't satisfy you isn't a good tactic, and he really should have looked for other solutions. He's basically exploiting the fact that you'll play any class no matter what because you love the game, while Player XYZ over there will cry and leave the group if you do more damage than his fighter.
Well, maybe I need to clarify.. I was going Human Range|Cleric with a spiked chain. He doesn't have a problem with Twin Strike... just what I was doing. Namely... twin striking at reach with a base [w] of 2d4 per attack, healing and using minors to get more attacks. There was not another character who did all that. If I had popped the combo at a higher level... it probably would have been ok. So... too good. We have a twin striking ranger, but he just wants to wield big swords. I think the problem is these are 3.5 peeps getting used to 4e. I can see his point of view. So yes.. he does get it... and allows it, but doesn't want me to be the uber war marchine of the group to come in and make the rest seem like they're not important.

With that said.. thank you guys so much for all the advice. I like the idea of maybe optimizing a controller or leader.

masteraleph, Scatterbrained & CormacTheLemuel:
what would you suggest... like a Genasi Warlord? He seems fun.

Wow Mommy was an Orc: That's cool! Never thought of that!!!

I do like a character that's melee... big and brawly, who can get in there to mix things up.

Avenger looks pretty fun... maybe Avenger|Cleric since they both key off WIS... or Battlemind|Warlock. Although Warlord seems awesome to do something with. What would you recommend?
I think I agree with going with a non-striker.  An enabling leader or a hybrid enabling leader would let you do a good build that doesn't overshadow everyone else.



If i play a Switch, i'll overshadow my DM..


Avenger looks pretty fun... maybe Avenger|Cleric since they both key off WIS... or Battlemind|Warlock. Although Warlord seems awesome to do something with. What would you recommend?



Avenger|Cleric bad idea.

Battlemind|Warlock: You would have to build him sub-optimal to not have the same problem as with the Ranger, but on a whole new level.

Warlord can be hybrided effectively with everything, due to strong lazy powers.


How about Avenger|Warlord? It can be done pretty effectively. You have a strong MBA for powers like Death from Two Sides, and you get a mix of strong personal damage and good ally enabling, meaning you contribute a ton but don't hog the spotlight.

You want to go wis/int, by the way.
Not to be disparaging, but if you already know how to build an optimized striker, and are looking specifically for an unoptimized something that won't overshadow the party, why are you posting on charop for how to improve your character? Just fishing for ideas? Not that that's a bad thing, just wanting to understand what the thread goal is at this point.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
The group seems a bit light on range and healing. Genasi Archer Warlord (Resourceful or Tactical) and turn the Seeker (and everyone else) in to a mini Striker. Paint the Bull's Eye early and often until more Encounter Powers come online.
No, the DM is great at the game. It's that he doesn't want me outshining the other players. For instance.. I made a human ranger|cleric that he says is better than the ranger and fighter hands down and it wasn't fun for anyone. He wants me to stay on par with others... not optimized fully. I've never played a twin strike ranger and it was something I was really looking forward to... but oh well. I just don't want to gimp myself so that I'm on par at level 1... but get left behind in late heroic/paragon.



"twin strike ranger" is redundant and has been since May 2010.

masteraleph, Scatterbrained & CormacTheLemuel:
what would you suggest... like a Genasi Warlord? He seems fun.

Sure, that works. Artificer isn't bad either - parties tend to love stuff like Punishing Eye. The hybrid of the two is represented by a build called Killswitch, and it may require your DM to step up the encounters.
yeah, genasi warlords are fun... Killswitch is pretty high op, but it is the kind that makes your party (not just you) look better... but a straight up str/int genasi warlord can be fun... it's a little vanila for the op board, but it is good and fun for the whole party!