Ideas to improve the disguise skill

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I know about Disguise Self/Hat of Disguise, Alter Self/Polymorph, Disguise Kit, Vestment of Many Styles and the Disguise skill it self, with its bonus from 5 ranks in Bluff.

Are there any other things to increase the Disguise skill, especially non-magical? (Not affected by True Seeing)

Thanks.

5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

I'd guess that you could, at least in theory, make an item that gives you a compentence bonus to Disguise.  Think of something like a Ring of Jumping but for Disguise instead.  The cost for such an item is bonus squared x 100 gp which would mean 90k for an item that gives you +30.  I do not recall what the limits on those types of item are but because that bonus would not be based in illusion/transformation True Seeing shouldn't be able to touch it.  At the very least you should be able to get a +10 competence bonus as there are clear precidents for that with magic items.

 
I'd guess that you could, at least in theory, make an item that gives you a compentence bonus to Disguise.  Think of something like a Ring of Jumping but for Disguise instead.  The cost for such an item is bonus squared x 100 gp which would mean 90k for an item that gives you +30.  I do not recall what the limits on those types of item are but because that bonus would not be based in illusion/transformation True Seeing shouldn't be able to touch it.  At the very least you should be able to get a +10 competence bonus as there are clear precidents for that with magic items.

 


It's an idea although I'm not sure if our DM would think it would get past True Seeing. It depends on how he would interpret mundane disguises and "changed things" in the spell's description.

5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

All this would do is improve a character's own ability.  The "disguise" he creates would still be completely mundane allowing it to bypass True Seeing even if some kind of magic is used to give him that added knowledge.

If your DM wants to screw you over with True Seeing there really isn't going to be an easy (or maybe even a hard) way around it.

Have you considered having others use "Aid Another" when you create your disguise?  I'll need to look at the skill again to determine how helpful that will be based on when the check is made.
 
All this would do is improve a character's own ability.  The "disguise" he creates would still be completely mundane allowing it to bypass True Seeing even if some kind of magic is used to give him that added knowledge.

If your DM wants to screw you over with True Seeing there really isn't going to be an easy (or maybe even a hard) way around it.

Have you considered having others use "Aid Another" when you create your disguise?  I'll need to look at the skill again to determine how helpful that will be based on when the check is made.
 


Aid another might work, your fellow players could spot imperfections in your disguise. It takes 10 minutes to create a disguise anyway, so plenty of time.

5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

Don't changelings and/mongrelfolk get racial bonuses to disguise?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Your best bet is to look for magical items and effects that would increase your Disguise check, rather than grant an illusionary effect.

(Extended) Eagle's Splendor and a Cloak of Charisma are obvious solutions.  There's also the often overlooked Circlet of Pursuation, which grants a +3 bonus to charisma-based checks.

Unfortunately, most other solutions I could think of don't last long enough.  Though if you can find a way to create a disguise faster, consider the Bard's Inspire Competence, psionic Shards, and the Improvisation spell from the Spell Compendium.

Otherwise, there's always the Skill Focus and Deceitful feats.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
Your best bet is to look for magical items and effects that would increase your Disguise check, rather than grant an illusionary effect.

(Extended) Eagle's Splendor and a Cloak of Charisma are obvious solutions.  There's also the often overlooked Circlet of Pursuation, which grants a +3 bonus to charisma-based checks.

Unfortunately, most other solutions I could think of don't last long enough.  Though if you can find a way to create a disguise faster, consider the Bard's Inspire Competence, psionic Shards, and the Improvisation spell from the Spell Compendium.

Otherwise, there's always the Skill Focus and Deceitful feats.


The Circlet of Persuation takes the same body slot as the Hat of Disguise, which makes the Hat preferred unless encountering True Seeing.

5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

The Circlet of Persuation takes the same body slot as the Hat of Disguise, which makes the Hat preferred unless encountering True Seeing.



Obviously.  But you were asking about ways to avoid being foiled by True Seeing, so that's what I gave you.  And you did not restrict your request by item slot, so neither did I.

Besides, nothing stops you from having both and using the best one for the situation.  Just keep the other one in your Handy Haversack, where you keep all the rest of the tools of your trade within easy reach.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
There are two feats which might be interesting. Dragon Magazine has Improved Disguise and Player's Guide to Eberron has Perfect Reflection (bonuses to impersonate a specific person). The latter was in the chapter on Changelings, though I can't remember from memory if it actually requires you to be a changeling.

The Spymaster Prestige Class (Complete Adventurer) gains good bonuses on disguise for its cover identities. Dragon Magazine had a special assassin prestige class, the Replacement Killer, which is designed to steal the identity of its victims.

Some of the paragon classes allow you to permanently increase your Charisma, as does a Tome of Leadership and Influence. 

Keith Baker's article on the Lords of Dust in Eberron presented a spell, named Cloak of Khyber (reprinted in Dragons of Eberron), which negates True Seeing, but has the downside that the magic disguise needs to be in place for some time (24 hours, from memory), so this does not work for a short-duration spell, but it's quite good if you are a shapeshifter. 
The Circlet of Persuation takes the same body slot as the Hat of Disguise, which makes the Hat preferred unless encountering True Seeing.



Obviously.  But you were asking about ways to avoid being foiled by True Seeing, so that's what I gave you.  And you did not restrict your request by item slot, so neither did I.

Besides, nothing stops you from having both and using the best one for the situation.  Just keep the other one in your Handy Haversack, where you keep all the rest of the tools of your trade within easy reach.

Yeah, sorry. I was interrupted and the post ended up a bit terse. All of them are good suggestions, thank you.
There are two feats which might be interesting. Dragon Magazine has Improved Disguise and Player's Guide to Eberron has Perfect Reflection (bonuses to impersonate a specific person). The latter was in the chapter on Changelings, though I can't remember from memory if it actually requires you to be a changeling.

The Spymaster Prestige Class (Complete Adventurer) gains good bonuses on disguise for its cover identities. Dragon Magazine had a special assassin prestige class, the Replacement Killer, which is designed to steal the identity of its victims.

Some of the paragon classes allow you to permanently increase your Charisma, as does a Tome of Leadership and Influence. 

Keith Baker's article on the Lords of Dust in Eberron presented a spell, named Cloak of Khyber (reprinted in Dragons of Eberron), which negates True Seeing, but has the downside that the magic disguise needs to be in place for some time (24 hours, from memory), so this does not work for a short-duration spell, but it's quite good if you are a shapeshifter. 


More good suggestions, thanks. It's 6 hours.

5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

Here's a fairly extensive spell list, with other things too:
www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=379...

Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.

 

Here's a fairly extensive spell list, with other things too:
www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=379...



Bookmarked it. I'm not a spellcaster though, so for my current character that list has limited use, some can be cast by party members though.

It looks like the trick to being a good skillmonkey is to be a good spellcaster.

5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

Here's a fairly extensive spell list, with other things too:
www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=379...



Bookmarked it. I'm not a spellcaster though



That's what scrolls, wands, staves, and ranks in UMD are for.  And if UMD is not a class skill, you can always add it.

It looks like the trick to being a good skillmonkey is to be a good spellcaster.


Or having a spellcasting sidekick.  But having a DM allow that feat is a long shot.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
Here's a fairly extensive spell list, with other things too:
www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=379...



Bookmarked it. I'm not a spellcaster though



That's what scrolls, wands, staves, and ranks in UMD are for.

UMD is a crutch at best. Why pay for things that a spellcaster gets for free? UMD is fine for the occassional use, but to support a core character concept (which is what I'm looking for here), the costs would quickly become prohibitive.
And if UMD is not a class skill, you can always add it.

Yeah, we don't allow that, but we have a houserule that's maybe even better: We allow that if you select one of the +2/+2 to skills feats, these also become class skills.

It looks like the trick to being a good skillmonkey is to be a good spellcaster.


Or having a spellcasting sidekick.  But having a DM allow that feat is a long shot.

Leadership is out in our group.

Thanks for the suggestions anyway, I'm looking for what options there are in the game, so any suggestions are welcome.

5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

Found another feat whilst browsing Dungeon 127 (p.49, Hall of Harsh Reflections adventure by J. Bulmahn). It's called Haunting Similarity, and gives you a bonus to impersonate a specific creature as well as rendering that creature shaken if it has to fight you whilst you are wearing its face. The bonus is unnamed, so should stack with similar feats (at your DM's discretion), though otherwise it's not that useful if your aim is to maximise disguise.
Yeah, we don't allow that, but we have a houserule that's maybe even better: We allow that if you select one of the +2/+2 to skills feats, these also become class skills.



Burning a feat to possibly get two class skills?  I don't know...seems kinda useless (just not as useless as those feats on their own).
Yeah, we don't allow that, but we have a houserule that's maybe even better: We allow that if you select one of the +2/+2 to skills feats, these also become class skills.



Burning a feat to possibly get two class skills?  I don't know...seems kinda useless (just not as useless as those feats on their own).


If you ask me, I would do away with class skills completely. This was sort of a compromise at our group to make these feats at least somewhat useful, the +2/+2 alone is really never worth a feat, getting two new class skills might be for some character concepts or PrC requirements.

5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

I really like the way Pathfinder did skills; every skill rank costs one point, period. If it's a class skill, you get a +3 bonus to it.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I really like the way Pathfinder did skills; every skill rank costs one point, period. If it's a class skill, you get a +3 bonus to it.


That in itself wasn't enough. They also axed lots of magic items (and synergy bonuses) that could be used to lever up skill checks on characters without any skill ranks. It made your actual skill bonus a lot more important when you couldn't just drop gold to receive massive bonuses to any and all skills. That itself makes things like +2 or +3 bonuses relevant when totaling skill bonuses.
Meh. I like synergy bonuses. The +10 competence bonus (and even more!) items I agree with dropping, but I like the nickel & dime +2s you can get from synergy & masterwork items. *shrug*
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls