Cantrips as 1st Level Spells

Got a question from a player that I wanted to put forth.  Should cantrips be allowed to be cast as 1st level spells?  He's looking at roleplaying oriented spells like Mending and Prestidigitation and feeling like a good roleplaying option is being restricted by isolating those spells as cantrips.  At first level its decided, thou can or cannot cast prestidigitation unless you take a feat.  I can't see a reason why not.

Vampire Class/Feat in 2013!

I prefer Next because 4E players and CharOpers can't find their ass without a grid and a power called "Find Ass."

A very good point. Cantrips are supposed to be spells so simple and that you've done so many times that they are permanantly embedded in your memory, yet a 20th level Wizard with 20 INT is completely incapable of learning Prestidigitation if he didn't learn it years ago during his training.

I prefer Pathfinder's approach where you can prepare a number of cantrips each day (to be used at will) but can learn as many as you want.
Well, prestidigitation is something that's supposed to represent a trivial effort on the spellcaster's behalf, something akin to a fighter going through a practice sword stroke. It's always felt kinda like a "street magic" sort of thing. Ultimately, it's up to what you and your group think fits, really, but I'd say that a feat might  be a bit too much for something like that.
I think everybody should get an arcane/divine/nature version of their "basic magic cantrip" for free. That's Prestidigitation for arcane casters, Druidcraft for nature casters, and some faithy version of those for divine casters. Then have "Cantrips known" be equal to "1+[Casting stat bonus]". If you want to learn more cantrips, raise your casting stat. With a stat of 20 and using one of the various "learn 2 cantrips" feats, a High Elf Scholarly Wizard will know 9 cantrips, which is most of the list.
I think everybody should get an arcane/divine/nature version of their "basic magic cantrip" for free. That's Prestidigitation for arcane casters, Druidcraft for nature casters, and some faithy version of those for divine casters. Then have "Cantrips known" be equal to "1+[Casting stat bonus]". If you want to learn more cantrips, raise your casting stat. With a stat of 20 and using one of the various "learn 2 cantrips" feats, a High Elf Scholarly Wizard will know 9 cantrips, which is most of the list.



That could work, but it still seems like an arbitrary limitation. A Wizard can still learn all of the 9th level spells by finding scrolls, but by the maximum amount of effort still cannot learn all of the Cantrips (which there are sure to be a lot more of than we have now by the time the game is completed).

I see no reason not to let Wizards learn cantrips the same way as any other spell, and let all the prepared casters prepare cantrips as they wish.
Hey everyone,

This isn't really a session report so I'll be moving it to Playtest Packet Discussion.

Thanks!

Monica
"Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add one spell to your spellbook. You choose the spell from the wizard's spell list, and it must be of a level that you can cast, as noted in the Wizard Spells per Day table."


If you consider a cantrip as a Level 0 spell (which is how they are listed on the character sheet) then there is no reason that you couldn't take a cantrip in lieu of a Level X spell when you level up. So really a "Cantrips are Level 0 spells" houserule, or better yet - official rule, is all it takes.

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I think that there should be scrolls with cantrips/level 0 spells on them. The question is what then happens if a wizard copies it into their book? The simplist would be to treat it as a cantrip, yet another spell they can cast at will, however this may be a bit unbalancing. Maybe level 0 slots for level 0 spells that can't be cast at will? This seems a bit strange.
Maybe make the "cost" of more cantrips be that you only gain more if you pick it as a lvl-gain free research spell? having a spell that you know by heart would imply you are VERY familiar with it, so it seems suitable.

Regular spellslot using spells can be copied off scrolls n others spellbooks 
If all cantrips are doing the same damage, then it doesn't matter how many evocation cantrips you know, you're exactly as powerful as if you only knew one. But the other schools' cantrips open up versatility that Wizards desperately need. And if you're still worried about knowing every cantrip being overpowered, just limit the number of cantrips you can prepare per day. Then casters have the same number as they do now but can switch them out as needed.
Allowing additional cantrip and orison to be prepared is a simple effective fix.

Personally, I dislike PF approach for cantrip and orison. You get to change each day which simple spells you have learned to cast indefinitely. That just feels a bit off.
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