Assassin's strike / sneak attack post to-hit-roll

15 posts / 0 new
Last post
Hi

I'm DMing a new campaign and a player has made an Executioner MC Rogue and I wanted to be sure if we're handling it correctly. Assassin's strike is a No Action with a "hit your opponent" trigger. That means the player may decide to use AFTER making the attack roll and knowing it has hit the opponent, right? So in a way that guarantees the AS damage will eventually kick in during the encounter.

What about Sneak attack via MC Rogue? Does it work the same way?

And finally, what if a critical is rolled? Is this extra damage maximized? It's rather powerful. Not bring-the-nerfbat-now powerful, but powerful indeed!

Thank you!
Both Assassin's Strike and Sneak Attack apply an extra damage when you hit with an attack and will be maximized on a critical hit.
Ok, but just to be sure:


  1. "I swing at the orc" *rolls attack* "22 vs AC, does it hit?"

  2. DM: "Yes". PC: "Then I use Assassin's Strike and, since I have CA, Sneak Attack"


  1. "I swing at the orc" *rolls attack* "17vs AC, does it hit?"

  2. DM: "Nope". PC: "Ok, let's save it for next attack then"


  1. "I swing at the orc" *rolls attack* "Natural 20! Critical"

  2. DM: "Ok, roll extra damage for magic Ki Focus" PC: "a 6, and I use Assassin's strike and Sneak attack for extra 10+10+12=32 damage!"

  3. DM: "The orc is beyond dead"


Are those correct?
And on a final nuance: Would the PC know if the initial damage is enough to kill the opponent before adding Assassin's strike and/or Sneak Attack. Specially with Death Attack 10-HP-Remaining-threshold. Or does this fall into ask-your-DM (i.e. me) territory?


Thank you!

EDIT PS: I have to say I don't fully get why the line "if the target is helpless, this extra damage is maximized" in the Assassin's Strike power is for.
If the target is helpless -> Coup de grace -> automatic critical -> maximized damage anyway...
The only way I can think of is by making a minor-action attack or maybe a granted attack by an ally.

Also, how does, if any, interacts Death Strike with Coup de Grace attacks?
Those examples are correct, you can wait to see how well you hit before you tack on the extra damage.  The biggest pitfall is to make sure when you do retroactively apply the extra damage that you aren't adding dice back in where they don't apply - like a hybrid rogue or ranger adding their damage in on an attack that doesn't qualify.

There are lots of ways to figure out how many HP an opponent has, from magic items to math.  At our table, we mark the damage on an initiative board everyone can see, so once a bad guy dies or gets bloodied we have a pretty good idea of the remaining HP on his similar allies.  Our DM doesn't usually tell us the HP remaining, but there's no reason he couldn't.  So yep, ask the DM.

Our executioner was very thorough in asking if it fell within the 10/20/30 range on big hits or on bloodied enemies.  As far as we were concerned, it was his job =)

CdG requires you to be adjacent and Assassin's Strike does not, so you could use it on ranged attacks.  You caught the minor or granted attack benefit.  Assassins originally had a power that could make an enemy helpless, so it got a lot more run before they got updated.

INSIDE SCOOP, GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard

Some questions.

Does assassin's strike only work with assassin powers, similar to monk 'Flurry of Blows' ?

Same with Sneak Attack?

Does Melee Basic count for either attack?

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg)

"Trigger: You hit a creature within 5 squares of you with an attack using a weapon."

assassin's strike would trigger off any attack that meets the above criteria

Sneak Attack has weapon restrictions, and only the hybrid version would require it to be a rogue attack
Wait.  CdG requires you to be adjacent?

I thought in 4e it would apply with any attack regardless of your position as long as the target was helpless/unconscious.
The CdG action specifies adjacency, yes.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
But do note that you can CDG with any attack - it could be ranged, area, burst, blast, and could target other things than the CDG target, though it's only a CDG against the one CDG target.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Can you CdG with a charge? You are adjacent when you make the MBA (or replacement).
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
CdG is its own standard action.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
"Attack Helpless Target: The creature uses one of its attack powers against an adjacent target that is helpless. If the attack hits, it automatically scores a critical hit against the target."

And if you have a power that can be used on the charge, can you charge with it?

A reading of that rule would say that you couldn't CdG something as part of burst that effected other mobs. Another nastier reading would say that as long as you have one helpless target in your CdG blast, you auto-crit all targets.

So the rule on CdGs could be set out more neatly. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
No Charge with Coup De Grace since they use different standard actions. You could use a Power that lets you Charge as part of it though  (ex. Murderous Assault)

I treat multiattacks (AoE, multiattack) with Coup De Grace just like i treat multiattacks with Opportunity Attacks. As long as the primary target is attacked, if the power also target other creatures, it will still carry on. Also only the primary target that is Helpless will be scored a critical hit against.
CdG with a blast is usable, you are fulfilling the conditions for the CdG with the blast power.  That there are other available targets isn't relevant - CdG does not say anything about them, so the normal power rules apply.  Available targets, etc, etc.

The helpless target of the CdG gets the automatic critical if the attack roll against it hits.  The one helpless target, specified by the use of the CdG action.  If there's more than one helpless creature in the blast, only the one you pick for CdG gets the automatic critical.  Note, however, that as a DM I'd absolutely say that you can CdG multiple helpless targets with a blast attack - but that's not what the rules say.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
No, you can't CdG with a charge, no matter what way you try to swing it.  Even if you were able to charge an enemy whilst adjacent, Charge is not an option for what you can do when you CdG - it's not a standard-action attack.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Sign In to post comments