Looking for cleric advice

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Playing a mini campaign that only runs from level 3-6 was wondering if anybody had any suggestions for the cleric I built.

 

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Helja, level 3
Gold Dwarf, Cleric (Templar)
Build: Devoted Cleric
Cleric Option: Healer's Lore
Seer (+2 to Arcana)
Theme: Ordained Priest

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 12, DEX 11, INT 8, WIS 20, CHA 14

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 10, DEX 11, INT 8, WIS 18, CHA 14


AC: 19 Fort: 13 Ref: 10 Will: 19
HP: 34 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +8, Heal +11, Insight +11, Religion +5

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Arcana +2, Athletics +1, Bluff +3, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +4, History +0, Intimidate +3, Nature +6, Perception +6, Stealth +1, Streetwise +3, Thievery +1

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Ordained Priest Attack: Shining Symbol
Dwarf Racial Power: Dwarven Resilience
Cleric Feature: Turn Undead
Cleric Feature: Divine Fortune
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Cleric Attack 1: Sacred Flame
Cleric Attack 1: Astral Seal
Cleric Attack 1: Cause Fear
Cleric Attack 1: Beacon of Hope
Cleric Utility 2: Blackened Soul
Cleric Attack 3: Hymn of Resurgence

FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Coordinated Explosion
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Astral symbol)

ITEMS
Ritual Book
Brew Potion
Comprehend Language
Astral symbol of the Holy Nimbus +1 x1
Hero's Scale Armor +1 x1
Brooch of No Regrets +1 x1
Adventurer's Kit
Morningstar x1
====== End ======

You are better of with battle clerics lore over healers lore and divine fortune for favor of the gods.  The  character builder defaults to those options, but you should switch them out since it will significantly boost your party's offense and your AC.

I would switch out astral seal for a better ranged attack or else pick up one of the wisdom melee powers.  And then drop the points you are putting into charisma into constitution instead.  Maybe go with 10 16 11 8 20 10.

Coordinated explosion is a feat to take late in your career if you have room to squeeze it in.  You will always get a bonus to hit with holy symbol expertise and that helps out your granting CA as well.

You have an astral symbol, which I think is a good choice most of the time, but you don't have that many radiant powers so mostly it will just increase the range of your at wills and cause fear by 2.   I would either add more radiant powers or wait a while before taking that feat once you have them.
- Battle Clerics Lore, both for you and your allies

- That is a very expensive 18 in Wis. I would start with a 17. At level 4 you can boost that by one point, and in the mean time your reflex defense isn't total sh*t.

- Auspicious Birth as a background to keep you in good health, with perhaps the Society of Sensation THP granting on top of that. Though that last one is not all that effective at low levels.

- Unless you play a undead heavy campaign, healers mercy is much better than turning a few zombies

- I do not see the point of either of those at-wills, and do not even know what Coordinated Explosion does, so I'll leave that for someone else to make some suggestions for.

 
Sacred flame is radiant damage and grants a save or temp hitpoints on a hit.  Its very useful.

Coordinated explosion is a bonus to hit when you have an ally in the AOE.  Clerics have enough party friendly AOE powers that this can be useful, but its for when you are mainly using AOE powers at later levels and already have expertise and all your other primary feats taken care of first.
GO, it is not that I do not know what Sacred Flame does, it's the fact that I do not see the point in a campaign going from level 3 to 6. How many save end effects is this DM realistically gonna throw on these PCs ?

I would sooner pick something like Gaze of Defiance instead. 
the 3-6 campaign is the latest season in the D&D encounters and save end effects have been pretty heavy so far.  the group comp is already melee intensive so I'd like to avoid melee powers.  the primary purpose of this cleric is to heal and pew pew some radiant damage.  constitution would be overrated as I'll be no where near the front line.  do you have another feat suggestion for coordinated explosion? 
I'm no charop-guru, but here's some suggestions for a feat to replace Coordinated Explosion based on the nifty guide GO made, which I advise you to take a peak at.

One of the expertise feats could prove useful for more accuracy and their little extra bonuses:



  • The bonus of Holy Symbol expertise is that it render you unable to grant combat advantage when you attack with a divine power, which should be pretty much all the time. I don't know how useful that is in actual play at low heroic.



  • If you wish to buff your allies AC you could instead chose to be a shield dwarf, pick up a light shield, and get Devout Protector Expertise so they get a +1 shield bonus to AC regardless of how far away you are as long as you use a shield (just remember that it doesn't stack with other sources of shield bonuses to AC, so if plenty of your allies already have a shield bonus it would be better to go for Holy Symol Expertise). Having a Light shield also boosts your Ref defense, which seem to sorely need some patching.



Another feat which might prove useful since you say you have plenty of melee guys is Distant Advantage (you get combat Advantage with ranged/area burst attack vs enemies flanked by your allies).

I'm no charop-guru, but here's some suggestions for a feat to replace Coordinated Explosion based on the nifty guide GO made, which I advise you to take a peak at.

One of the expertise feats could prove useful for more accuracy and their little extra bonuses:



  • The bonus of Holy Symbol expertise is that it render you unable to grant combat advantage unless a power or ability you use causes you to grant CA when you attack with a divine an implement power, which should be pretty much all the time. I don't know how useful that is in actual play at low heroic.



  • If you wish to buff your allies AC you could instead chose to be a shield dwarf, pick up a light shield, and get Devout Protector Expertise so they get a +1 shield bonus to AC regardless of how far away you are as long as you use a shield (just remember that it doesn't stack with other sources of shield bonuses to AC, so if plenty of your allies already have a shield bonus it would be better to go for Holy Symol Expertise). Having a Light shield also boosts your Ref defense, which seem to sorely need some patching.



Another feat which might prove useful since you say you have plenty of melee guys is Distant Advantage (you get combat Advantage with ranged/area burst attack vs enemies flanked by your allies).


Fixed.

GO, it is not that I do not know what Sacred Flame does, it's the fact that I do not see the point in a campaign going from level 3 to 6. How many save end effects is this DM realistically gonna throw on these PCs ?

I would sooner pick something like Gaze of Defiance instead. 



There are actually a lot of save ends conditions from levels 3-6, but a large number of them are ongoing damage.  I suppose that eliminating 5 damage might be worth it, though, if you don't have anything else to do with your standard action.
Just curious why you didn't take basically the best level 1 daily power in the game: Moment of Glory
New and hopefully improved remember that I want to be ranges a primarily a healer

 

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Helja, level 3
Shield Dwarf, Cleric (Templar)
Build: Devoted Cleric
Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Ordained Priest

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 12, DEX 11, INT 8, WIS 20, CHA 14

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 10, DEX 11, INT 8, WIS 18, CHA 14


AC: 20 Fort: 13 Ref: 13 Will: 19
HP: 42 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +8, Heal +12, Insight +11, Religion +5

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +0, Arcana +0, Athletics +0, Bluff +3, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +3, History +0, Intimidate +3, Nature +6, Perception +6, Stealth +0, Streetwise +3, Thievery +0

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Ordained Priest Attack: Shining Symbol
Dwarf Racial Power: Dwarven Resilience
Cleric Utility: Favor of the Gods
Cleric Feature: Healer's Mercy
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Cleric Attack 1: Sacred Flame
Cleric Attack 1: Lance of Faith
Cleric Attack 1: Shield Bearer
Cleric Attack 1: Beacon of Hope
Cleric Utility 2: Blackened Soul
Cleric Attack 3: Resurgent Sun

FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Devout Protector Expertise
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Astral symbol)

ITEMS
Ritual Book
Brew Potion
Comprehend Language
Adventurer's Kit
Astral symbol of the Holy Nimbus +1 x1
Astral Fire Chainmail +1 x1
Cloak of the Chirurgeon +1 x1
Preservation Shield Light Shield x1
Mace x1
====== End ======

constitution would be overrated as I'll be no where near the front line.

Famous last words. Most monsters have ranged attacks, and many of those target reflex, which is very weak on this build. You are also the guy who gets people up... so if you go down, no one's getting you up. For many DMs, this makes you a prime target. Lurkers are basically made for the ranged guy sitting back from all his buddies.

Admittedly, adding CON isn't going to totally prevent this, but don't assume that being a ranged character means you're safe or don't have to worry about defenses.
I'm all for adding to my reflex but whats the best way to go about it?
Consider Knight Hospitaler for a theme.  It takes care of your emergency "save a dying ally" button.

That frees up your U2 for something like Shield of Faith, Bless, or even Holy Vestments if it's a theme campaign.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
At this level it would probably mean having to rearrange your stats. That's what people mean by your 20 WIS being expensive. It's tempting to dump all your points in your attack stat, but for many builds it leaves them pretty unbalanced.

At the least, I'd start with a preracial 17 as was suggested. You'll be at 20 WIS from levels 4-6 and geta few extra points to spread around.
Knight Hospitaler only lets me heal 5 points of damage is it really worth the huge degrade in healing done for another utility power? I'd also lose shining symbol an AoE targets only enemies radiant damage ability. If everyone thinks its worth it I'll defer to the knowledge of CharOP but I dont see it.
Just curious why you didn't take basically the best level 1 daily power in the game: Moment of Glory



This was more for flavor purposes as I'd rather heal than prevent damage.
Knight Hospitaler only lets me heal 5 points of damage is it really worth the huge degrade in healing done for another utility power? I'd also lose shining symbol an AoE targets only enemies radiant damage ability. If everyone thinks its worth it I'll defer to the knowledge of CharOP but I dont see it.

It only heals for stat mod hp, but it's also an IR, and it gives you a bonus for a turn against whoever smacked your friend.  Not saying that necessarily makes Hospitaler a better choice for you than Ordained Priest, but it's something to consider.

Knight Hospitaler only lets me heal 5 points of damage is it really worth the huge degrade in healing done for another utility power? I'd also lose shining symbol an AoE targets only enemies radiant damage ability. If everyone thinks its worth it I'll defer to the knowledge of CharOP but I dont see it.



The biggest advantage of an IR heal is that you can instantly bring an ally that was beaten to < 0 hp back on the field. Twice per encounter.

after taking everyones much appreciated advice here's what I got

 

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Helja, level 3
Shield Dwarf, Cleric (Templar)
Build: Devoted Cleric
Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Knight Hospitaler

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 12, DEX 14, INT 8, WIS 19, CHA 14

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 10, DEX 14, INT 8, WIS 17, CHA 14


AC: 20 Fort: 13 Ref: 15 Will: 18
HP: 41 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +8, Heal +11, Insight +10, Religion +5

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +0, Athletics +0, Bluff +3, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +3, History +0, Intimidate +3, Nature +5, Perception +5, Stealth +2, Streetwise +3, Thievery +2

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Knight Hospitaler Utility: Shield of Devotion
Dwarf Racial Power: Dwarven Resilience
Cleric Utility: Favor of the Gods
Cleric Feature: Healer's Mercy
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Cleric Attack 1: Sacred Flame
Cleric Attack 1: Lance of Faith
Cleric Attack 1: Exacting Utterance
Cleric Attack 1: Beacon of Hope
Heal Utility 2: Iron Resurgence
Cleric Attack 3: Resurgent Sun

FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Devout Protector Expertise
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Astral symbol)

ITEMS
Ritual Book
Brew Potion
Comprehend Language
Adventurer's Kit
Astral symbol of the Holy Nimbus +1 x1
Astral Fire Chainmail +1 x1
Cloak of the Chirurgeon +1 x1
Preservation Shield Light Shield x1
Mace x1
====== End ======

A couple quick things.  I would consider prophetic guidance over exacting utterance.  Its not that exacting utterance is bad, but prophetic guidance is a sure thing, has a very similar effect, and grants a reroll if an ally missed.  That gives you two rounds every encounter where an ally gets to reroll a missed attack since you have favor of the gods, which is really useful especially at at low levels.

Your charisma really doesn't due much for you.  I think all it effects is the temp hitpoints you hand out with sacred flame and helps beacon of hope a little.  I would probably put some of those points into constitution.

I would probably lose resurgant sun for something else, since it will be your only melee power and I don't think you will need the healing it gives that much with all your other healing powers.  I would go with death surge, hymn of resurgance, or light of arvandor. 
Yep, second use at 10.
Just curious why you didn't take basically the best level 1 daily power in the game: Moment of Glory



This was more for flavor purposes as I'd rather heal than prevent damage.


MoG is seriously overrated, most combats don't fit into a 5x5 box until they're in mop-up so you're almost always not catching an ally and several enemies when you use it at Cleric Initiative. While it makes a combat easier (assuming you don't get dazed and hosed out of your next turn), it can't save a combat from being deadly, so it can easily go to waste on a combat that just *looked* hard.

Besides, everyone loves Bacon.

And just because this is CharOp and I'm me, I want to point out that that prefering to heal instead of prevent the damage is really just a bad mentality to have in this game. I realize you were talking about resistances and THP, but since "make it so the enemy can't attack your party" is the primary method of preventing damage and is also the win-condition for combats, I just wanted to clarify that dealing damage and controlling enemies trumps any healing.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
And just to add to that, roleplaying doesn't have to prevent you from taking good powers. The resist 5 from MoG can easily be fluffed as you healing for 5 as a free action every time they get hit or their wounds stitching up on their own or something. Roleplaying is a tool that you control, not a box you have to squeeze into.
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