Turn Undead

And what about that HP calculation and the Cleric's level thing???! Why not a straight DC like 15+1/2 HD of the undead creature thing. Or some of the old way style. I mean Cleric in all other Channel Divinity abilities he is quite strong. And in his most crucial rpg style concept he seems....weak.

The way it is this means it's quite ineffective if you don't start giving some blows to the "Ghost" :P first . (I know it's not that the case always, but Ghosts are undead too, so i am giving the worst rp-style case scenario).
Which is actually what you shouldn't have to do....in the fisrt place, if you had a cleric with you in the party...and the first lvl Cleric with that 5 times * Cleric's lvl treshold, seems not able to turn anything, until he stikes his mace first at it, and not only 1-2 times. Well....nice Cleric he is indeed!!! Why to try to Turn it if he can just use a MIghty Righteous whatever strike for 3D10 + oo dmg??? 

Or better ..if his combanion can strike the Undead with their mighty....Axe! the same way....where is the old feeling of Cleric being trully divine....and having to actually turn the Wraith cause otherwise,  it's actually " -immune-  to ma damage...dude" 
 thing???

And what about that....concept of ethereal undead taking half dmg from common weapons, instead of taking NO dmg from common weapons? only sacred,blessed,magical or anything more flavoured that simply battering the ghost with a mace....
 
Celtovax - Breathe deeply!

Turn Undead in DnDN has changed a lot compared to "old days".

Gone are the days when a lowly lvl 1 cleric with lots of Cha could roll insanely lucky and force a lvl 5 undead to flee.
In DnDN there's no rolls to see if you can affect larger HD/lvl undeads, but on the other hand there's no limit, apart from range, to how many you can affect at once.
This makes the GM's life somewhat more predictable and the players aswell. This is both good and bad. The main problem is that because the devs haven't really done anything with the Bestiary.pdf lately, most of the monsters are pretty stupid, so a basic skeleton or zombie has 2HD (2d8) or 9hp.

On one had we have the 3.5ed Lvl 1 Cleric with 18 Cha who just scared off the 6HD Mummy if he was alone.
A lvl 1 DnDN cleric who uses Turn Undead will scare off any undead with 5hp or less who is within 25 yards. As the lowliest undead in the Bestiary atm has 9hp, that's not really doing anything.
This means that our 3.5 cleric is awesome.

Generally, provided that the undeads have d8HD and no turning resistance, a DnD Next cleric can make undeads on his own lvl/HD run away. If the Cleric has more than double the amount of lvl/HD of the undead, it crumbles into dust. The above rule of thumb only applies when the undead are undamaged!

Because that's where the DnDN and 3.5 rules diverge. Or.. should I say.. leaves a void that should be interpreted.
If you have a lvl 3 cleric and you reduce a Vampire to 6hp left or less, the cleric can destroy the vampire with a Turn Undead use. So suddenly Turn Undead gets a much better tactical use. Big bad undead, out of our league? Throw in a Fireball or other AoE damaging effect and let's try again! So, while the fun of rolling for effect has gone, there's still a lot of mileage.

And just smile and wave for the lvl 1 Cleric with Turn Undead coz with the current selection of Undead, there's no good use for Turn Undead until the Cleric is lvl 2.
Since Zombies keep coming back with 1 hit point, Turn is good for auto-destroying them after they have been put down once.


At first level, a Cleric can use his Turn Undead once per day. The ability is, at this point, pretty useless.

But let's take a look at a fifth level Cleric with three Channel Divinity a day. The Cleric turns 25hp of Undead or destroys automatically 10hp of Undead (every single zombie and skeleton in a 25feet radius).

The Cleric, as he gains in power, tears out pages of Undead creatures from the book. No more regular zombies and skeletons at fifth level, for example. I do appreciate what they've been trying to do with the ability, though. No more browsing through the Player's Handbook to find the directions to use Turn undead and the specific table that goes with it.

But as far as I'm concerned, I'd make Turn Undead look a lot like the "Slay living" ability, except it would be targeted against Undead and it'd actually turn them as well.

To be honest, I feel like the Constitution Saving throw part is what conforts me the most about the idea. The Turn Undead ability currently lacks the random possibility to fail.
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