These have been GAME BREAKING problems sense Launch 2011

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Before i start i would like to say that i enjoy this game and play on planeswalker, but these problems stop me from playing for long periods of time. We are talking months here, also i bought all the dlc for all of them, and play on the 360.

1) Mana distribution ratio, we all know it is all messed up. You cant tell me out of 10 turns that i would still have only 4 mana, this on a game where i can not chose my mana ratio it is forced on me. Understandable if it only happened once in a blue moon, but this happens 1 out of every 3 games for single mana decks, and 2 out of seven games with 2 mana decks. This is very upsetting and is why i forgo all online play, i don't mind being owned by a skill full player, but it is irksome to be owned because of bad programming.

2) AI set starting. By this i mean that the AI decks start with a list of four to six starting hands, it is obvious when playing them repeatedly and stops the use of all decks vs any AI. The AI needs random hand shuffle, not once have i seen the AI (on planes walker) run into the Mana Distribution Ratio problem. They always have ample mana at starts and are never lacking. The point of AI is to simulate skilled players, even skilled players have bad luck, the per-verbal David and Goliath can happen to any skilled player. 

3) AI card matching. By this i mean that the AI will draw the card it needs nine out of ten times, EVEN WITH 0 IN HAND AND ON A DRAW. This just insults  my skill ( or a perceived lack there of for that some people are going to point while out flaming this thread ) and my ability to do math. You can not tell me that seven out of ten duels with odric by the fifth turn he has one to two honor of the pure out then locking up all my creatures with the enchantments, this stops you from using a deck that has no enchantment removal. This would not be a problem if every deck would have cards to this effect, or if i could add said cards to a deck.

I am not insulting i am adding feedback in hopes they adress these problems, a suggestion would be ensure that your testers have proper training in Stats and using these skills when testing. Again i like the game but these problems keeps creeping back up in every yearly addition. There are others but they are bugs that do not happen but on a blue moon.

Thank you 
Major Rabid 
People will fight to the death about mana screw/flood, but I'm pretty sure it's officially acknowledged that the Planeswalker A.I. "cheats," I just don't remember exactly how. On the flip side, the easiest difficulty will never play instants except in their main phases (or something to that effect).

I understand this has probably been a relatively unhelpful post, but the gist of it is:

Mana Screw-Some say yes, some say no, but all say it vehemently
AI Cheating- Pretty much confirmed for Planeswalker difficulty and everyone agrees it's obnoxious and lazy AI. 
The shuffler may be totally broken (and I believe it is), but it affects us all equally. It's a non-issue for MP games, IMO.
Both what Kanger and Hakeem said.

Hakeem be praised.        

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

The shuffler may be totally broken (and I believe it is), but it affects us all equally. It's a non-issue for MP games, IMO.



Thank you for your response Hakeem928, 
This is a major problem when your stats for multi-player are looked at as an indicator of your skill, considering the amount of deck shuffling cards in play this makes some decks suicidal in there use. There is no point in spending time balancing decks when you have fundamental operation problem that auto excludes over half of the decks. It is just bad QA i would say (IMHO) that this would make it an major issue. Alas, i respect your IMO and glad that you feel it is acceptable.

People will fight to the death about mana screw/flood, but I'm pretty sure it's officially acknowlled that the Planeswalker A.I. "cheats," I just don't remember exactly how. On the flip side, the easiest difficulty will never play instants except in their main phases (or something to that effect).

I understand this has probably been a relatively unhelpful post, but the gist of it is:

Mana Screw-Some say yes, some say no, but all say it vehemently
AI Cheating- Pretty much confirmed for Planeswalker difficulty and everyone agrees it's obnoxious and lazy AI. 



No feed back is ever unhelpful Kangermu, and i glad you posted,

As for the "Cheating AI" i feel (IMHO) that AI's cant cheat they are just programmed to respond, AI cheating is what i call bad programming. I remember the "Hype" before release being that they "Revolutionized" the AI and where bragging to said affect. (IMHO) It is insulting to me to find that they in place of doing said innovations just patched it with a ridiculousness in behavior. This works both ways once you find the pattern the AI uses and a deck to combat it, you can beat them in your sleep. With all these decks in my cannon why am i so limited? I did not buy this game and the DLC's to only use 3 decks, what is the point of unlocking the others?

I am glad i am not alone in this "Lazy AI" in truth i waited for a long time to act on this, just today after 30 duels i had enough and wanted to express my misgivings about buying any more of the games. We all know that EA/COD games are pushed out once a year with just a new coat and name changes. I guess being an old DD and ADD player i expected more from WOC (SSI/WWC). This company is rooted so deeply in its players that we don't even think about non-loyalty. Disappointed is the best way to describe my feelings about this issue.

TheDevilWuster,
Thank you for your "Ditto" response it showed me others felt the same, although (IMHO) you should avoid putting people on platforms, they rarely survive the fall. I guess this is what i did to WOC in my expatiation of this small game.


I hope i did not upset any one remember this is all (IMHO) and is mainly for feedback that the producers and programmers can ignore or use.


"Hope is the carrot you dangle in front of the donkey to get it to plod further." Raistland


Thank you,
Major Rabid 
1) The mana shuffler does seem broken but this is more a flaw with magic in general than just the programming. There are just going to be games where you get mana screwed, flooded or color shafted. They would have to fix magic in general to deal with this problem and this makes MTG a pretty poor competitive game. If you are looking for a more competitive CCG try Shadow Era. It's not as fun or good as magic (Of course) but it is pretty similar and it handles mana ideally. Basically instead of lands, you can discard any card every turn. For every card in your discard pile you have +1 mana available. You have total control of your available mana and never topdeck useless mana draws.

2) Agree wholeheartedly. It was confirmed for a fact during the beta that the game has an engine for stacking hands because it was stacking hands for the player. You could restart the game 100 times and there were certain cards you'd never start with even though they were in your deck, and your mana was always 2-5. This was removed for the player after the beta but still remains in place for the AI. I'm not sure if it should be removed for the AI or reinstated for the player though lol. It would be nice to be assured of a 2-5 mana start instead of having 0 or 7 lands 3 mulligans in a row then ragequitting.

3) Yeah. My personal pet peeve is playing against Garruk and he ALWAYS has an Indrik Stomphowler ready to destroy your enchantment. He will sit there with nothing on the board getting beat down and not cast anything but the second you drop an enchant, the Stomphowler miraclulously appears just in time. This is the case with every AI deck that runs enchantment removal, your first good enchant will always get removed because the AI hand always gets enchantment removal. It's just worse with Garruk because he gets 3 and they come with a 4/4 body.


They should get rid of the hand stacking and give the AI better builds IMO. Either that or let us save builds for the AI decks, since the devs obviously don't know how to optimize their builds.  

The shuffler may be totally broken (and I believe it is), but it affects us all equally. It's a non-issue for MP games, IMO.



Thank you for your response Hakeem928, 
This is a major problem when your stats for multi-player are looked at as an indicator of your skill, considering the amount of deck shuffling cards in play this makes some decks suicidal in there use. There is no point in spending time balancing decks when you have fundamental operation problem that auto excludes over half of the decks. It is just bad QA i would say (IMHO) that this would make it an major issue. Alas, i respect your IMO and glad that you feel it is acceptable.



Well, I don't really feel that it's acceptable; I just feel that no matter how unacceptable it is, it's still equal for all players. So it's acceptably unacceptable... I think...
AI does cheat you just know if he doesn't swing his goblin's guide that you have a land on top of your library...
although (IMHO) you should avoid putting people on platforms, they rarely survive the fall.


Thank you,
Major Rabid 




Being new to the forum, I will not fault you for not understanding the Power of Hakeem.


Hakeem be praised.        

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

ai's pretty much have to cheat for hard modes though..I'm no programmer but it seems that they just have too.

How long did it take programers to get a chess ai that was really a challenge and thats a game people have been studying for 100's (1000's??) of years. probably because you can't cheat in that game..

Usually in videogames they just give em modifers like in civilization there citys make moneys faster or the dudes in shooter become bullet sponges or my personal least favorite....infinite grenades!! Baseball games there pitchers never get tired etc etc...
although (IMHO) you should avoid putting people on platforms, they rarely survive the fall.


Thank you,
Major Rabid 




Being new to the forum, I will not fault you for not understanding the Power of Hakeem.


Hakeem be praised.        



Spread the Word! Amen!
The mana shuffler does seem broken but this is more a flaw with magic in general than just the programming. There are just going to be games where you get mana screwed, flooded or color shafted. They would have to fix magic in general to deal with this problem and this makes MTG a pretty poor competitive game. If you are looking for a more competitive CCG try Shadow Era. It's not as fun or good as magic (Of course) but it is pretty similar and it handles mana ideally. Basically instead of lands, you can discard any card every turn. For every card in your discard pile you have +1 mana available. You have total control of your available mana and never topdeck useless mana draws.


Yeah, I agree that the randomness (mana flood/screw) of Magic is something that is inate to Magic and not just DotP. I played 3 games of EDH the other night, in two of the games I was mana flooded and the third was just right, and a week earlier I played a 7 player game of Cube and was mana screwed despite having a high ratio of land (though it was probably a little my fault as I was initially gearing for Red/Black and decided to add Green a little late and didn't draft any ramp). But in paper Magic, it seems (to me), that you can get mana screwed/flooded as easily as you can in DotP.

Sorry for the rambling post.

"People are like sausages: it's what's under the skin that's important... so poke them with a fork periodically."

"Lif is too short."

The mana shuffler does seem broken but this is more a flaw with magic in general than just the programming. There are just going to be games where you get mana screwed, flooded or color shafted. They would have to fix magic in general to deal with this problem and this makes MTG a pretty poor competitive game. If you are looking for a more competitive CCG try Shadow Era. It's not as fun or good as magic (Of course) but it is pretty similar and it handles mana ideally. Basically instead of lands, you can discard any card every turn. For every card in your discard pile you have +1 mana available. You have total control of your available mana and never topdeck useless mana draws.


Yeah, I agree that the randomness (mana flood/screw) of Magic is something that is inate to Magic and not just DotP. I played 3 games of EDH the other night, in two of the games I was mana flooded and the third was just right, and a week earlier I played a 7 player game of Cube and was mana screwed despite having a high ratio of land (though it was probably a little my fault as I was initially gearing for Red/Black and decided to add Green a little late and didn't draft any ramp). But in paper Magic, it seems (to me), that you can get mana screwed/flooded as easily as you can in DotP.

Sorry for the rambling post.



Very, very true. So don't worry about it so much in this game. It's going to happen.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Statistics 101 is what is needed for many people here.

WRT the AI 'cheating', I think that Wizards essentially tries to make the challenges a bit more difficult by giving the AI stacked decks. I think that's fine and frankly expected. I have seen no evidence that the AI in online mode cheats, on the contrary, half the time I can't figure out why the AI played a certain (many times very dumb) way. This tends to be even more obvious in 2HG when your team mate loses connection (or bails). I can't believe the bone headed plays I see the AI make. 
For the most part, AI in any game, when put on the highest difficulty, will cheat.  AIs are not at the level where they can think critically like a human so AI cheating is, and has been, a part of gaming for a long time.  I find it weird that you would choose this game, of all games, to decide to make your stand on.  For a more indepth explination you should check out this article that was linked in this forum a few weeks ago regarding AI cheating:

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheC...

You're a lose cannon.

 

 

"I played 70 card decks before it was cool to play 70 card decks." -Random M:tG hipster

Statistics 101 is what is needed for many people here.

WRT the AI 'cheating', I think that Wizards essentially tries to make the challenges a bit more difficult by giving the AI stacked decks. I think that's fine and frankly expected. I have seen no evidence that the AI in online mode cheats, on the contrary, half the time I can't figure out why the AI played a certain (many times very dumb) way. This tends to be even more obvious in 2HG when your team mate loses connection (or bails). I can't believe the bone headed plays I see the AI make. 




Without real statistics, the forum as a whole (can you believe we agree on something without hard data?) agrees that on Planeswalker difficulty in single player the AI indeed cheats.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

For the most part, AI in any game, when put on the highest difficulty, will cheat.  AIs are not at the level where they can think critically like a human so AI cheating is, and has been, a part of gaming for a long time.  I find it weird that you would choose this game, of all games, to decide to make your stand on.  For a more indepth explination you should check out this article that was linked in this forum a few weeks ago regarding AI cheating:

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheC...

I'm not sure that was in response to my post, or to someone else, but I wasn't making a stance of any kind. I was merely indicating that I expect the AI to have some advantages in the challenge phase of the game in order to make the challenge a more difficult and more constant achievement. If the AI got the same randomness as I get, I may find that the AI would have no mana, too much mana, mulligan down to a smaller hand, etc., which would make the challenge much easier.

If the AI got the same randomness as I get, I may find that the AI would have no mana, too much mana, mulligan down to a smaller hand, etc., which would make the challenge much easier.




You and I apparently agree then.  It should cheat.  That was in respose to the OPs #2 and #3.  I find it hard to believe that this is the first time he's ran into a cheating AI and I just find it absolutely hilarious that he chose DotP to be the game that he decides to make his stand against cheating AI.

You're a lose cannon.

 

 

"I played 70 card decks before it was cool to play 70 card decks." -Random M:tG hipster

Wow this thread took off after i went to bed...

I would like to thank you all for adding your IMO's


1) "AI Cheating" is expected at some lvl in any game, but not at a level where it excludes all but a small few options. Magic is a sandbox type game, as in there should never be the same game played twice, but the AI removes this concept because of these stacking/shuffling/"Cheating" problems. This leaves you with a choice to:

  1. Play the only way that you can win, (But some times there is no way to win because of the multi-component interaction these problems have) and keep repeating the duel until the events fall in line to what you needed to happen to win. In other words get damn lucky.

  2. Play on an easier setting, but you will not get the "Gold" next to the duelist and forever irk the completest in you, be bored due to the lack of challenge.

That is about it, and both of those choices are not good ones, or even acceptable (IMHO). Remember im not saying that the AI should not have tools at its disposal to make it hard, but that the tools that it has now needs a lot of reworking. Progressing in each step, aka each year, not accepting the stagnation that the AI has become, but letting it grow with the game.

2) Magic has what some would call the Mana Problem but i don't see it as a problem (IMHO). In the first Gen i played a lot of "Paper Magic" I had the first Red/Black deck in my circle, I had an whit black deck as well. ( They use to tell me that it was stupid to do because "The best decks are solid colour" ) This problem with mana is the luck factor. This factor is in every thing we do touch see, it is part of the universe and it is also a part of Magic. What i am saying is that the stats for this factor are far off balance and it removes a lot of decks and playing strategics, many of these i paid extra for. So why did i buy the DLC's to only use them to unlock or play on the bore you to tears setting in SP? Match that with online play being narrowed down to 4 decks then why even have the other decks? The ratio that this mana problem happens on the game is over 50% (66.8)where as the paper ratio is far less (31.3) all i am saying is that this needs reworking. 

So i have these decks that i like and would love to play but i can only use them in rare times, this makes me feel like i wasted my money on these decks, that they are useless and just there so i can see the wonderful art on them. I do love the art but i bought the game to play.


(IMHO) the ability for programs to "Think Critically" is far past what we are seeing with the AI, the truth is that it seems to be a "IF and Then" type program with limited starting options. It is like playing on the old 64 in golden eye when you could just back up and the tango would go back to its starting point and wait there. I would like to think we are past that point, but i could be wrong.


Again thank you all i enjoyed reading your post and looking at it from different side, and i would hope to see more. Remember i am not flaming or yelling at  the creators, I am just telling them my fears and misgivings about buying 2014. Also giving them a guideline on why they have lost so many console players compared to the first year, in hope that they will start to handle these issues.

"I must do something evil and hope they see the love in it later on" (Frank Herbert, Soul Catcher)


Thank you,
Major Rabid 

"I must do something evil and hope they see the love in it later on" (Frank Herbert, Soul Catcher)


Thank you,
Major Rabid 




"Man, this is way too much water!" (Frank Herbert, The Jesus Incident)

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Before i start i would like to say that i enjoy this game and play on planeswalker, but these problems stop me from playing for long periods of time. We are talking months here, also i bought all the dlc for all of them, and play on the 360.

1) Mana distribution ratio, we all know it is all messed up. You cant tell me out of 10 turns that i would still have only 4 mana, this on a game where i can not chose my mana ratio it is forced on me. Understandable if it only happened once in a blue moon, but this happens 1 out of every 3 games for single mana decks, and 2 out of seven games with 2 mana decks. This is very upsetting and is why i forgo all online play, i don't mind being owned by a skill full player, but it is irksome to be owned because of bad programming.

2) AI set starting. By this i mean that the AI decks start with a list of four to six starting hands, it is obvious when playing them repeatedly and stops the use of all decks vs any AI. The AI needs random hand shuffle, not once have i seen the AI (on planes walker) run into the Mana Distribution Ratio problem. They always have ample mana at starts and are never lacking. The point of AI is to simulate skilled players, even skilled players have bad luck, the per-verbal David and Goliath can happen to any skilled player. 

3) AI card matching. By this i mean that the AI will draw the card it needs nine out of ten times, EVEN WITH 0 IN HAND AND ON A DRAW. This just insults  my skill ( or a perceived lack there of for that some people are going to point while out flaming this thread ) and my ability to do math. You can not tell me that seven out of ten duels with odric by the fifth turn he has one to two honor of the pure out then locking up all my creatures with the enchantments, this stops you from using a deck that has no enchantment removal. This would not be a problem if every deck would have cards to this effect, or if i could add said cards to a deck.

I am not insulting i am adding feedback in hopes they adress these problems, a suggestion would be ensure that your testers have proper training in Stats and using these skills when testing. Again i like the game but these problems keeps creeping back up in every yearly addition. There are others but they are bugs that do not happen but on a blue moon.

Thank you 
Major Rabid 




The last 2 points you made are not true. The AI can get mana screwed and the AI does not chose what cards to top deck, it only knows what card is on top of your and its deck.
It is with joy that i can read more input on this topic,

Before i start i must say that i just had all my progress in the campaign reset, I am quite irked about this when i found that for the 360 there is no fix. I was only missing a few duels from completing all the vanilla on planes walker, and had all my challenges done. Now i have to do it all again? that took me months to beat all the AI's.


As for the point the AI does get manna screwed...

  1. I have never seen this happen on planes walker, I have seen them hold back on dropping mana when i was mana "Screwed" but that was a buggie game. It was weird because they where dropping mana on their 2nd main in place of at the start of their turn. I used Liliana's specter on them and they discarded mana. I thought this was odd because they did not play mana in the last turn they had.

  2. The stats for them to be "Mana screwed" have to be different because when i was collecting datum to do the stats i used the AI as a base for the control group of normal. This would mean that the stats i have now are LOWER then the actual. So that would imply that the mana problem happens MORE. I find this defense to be lacking in logical terms, it only strengthens my case that this needs reworking.

As for the AI knowing your cards...

  1. I had no idea that they knew what cards are next but that makes sense considering its play style.

  2. The amount of counters it is capable of preforming simply are impossible with out "deck stacking" or set starts, if not then i need a program for my 360 that will give me winning lotto numbers. Yes it is that lucky and i would not mind it if my ol' slim baby would give me the jackpot that way i would have all the time in the world to play magic.

To say that these points are not true i will listen to, but with out data/datum to counter my research is not going to nullify my stance. 

Remember all this is IMHO and i am not flaming or pointing people out. I just really would like these issues addressed. Along with the whole campaign reset thing, i have sunk a lot of time in this game that now was for nothing... That in any video game is unacceptable hands down, and more evidence that this program has some serous foundation problems. If i keep playing will i lose all my decks and foils? Forum posts i have seen on the xbox forum state that no one received help or their items back, this to me is far more upsetting then any other problem. It is never good when a company does not back up their product with support,( forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_live_ar... ) this is very scary for me to see.

on a side note Good book Devil altough that set got kind of dull in the middle, but it was reborn again in ascension, although most people think that it was the start of the set. Alas, Destination was the start of it so it is a 4 book set with the last three being co-written. 

 "“the quandary is… one doesn't really get the chance to weild political power with out the ambition to actively seek it, and that same ambition often compromises the unselfish motives that started the quest. In other words, a battle of Id Vs. Ego that ego rarely wins" ( Battlestar Galactica episode “SINE QUA NON” 17min 53 sec )

Thank you,
Major Rabid 
Agree that the Lazarus Effect got a little long winded and weird but what could you expect from Herbert?
Always the theoretical sociologist and anyone working in the theoretical tends to be a little eccentric.
I didn't even know of, or read a fourth in that series.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

You get mana screwed 50% of the time?  No wonder you're upset!

Joking, but I do think perhaps your recall is subject to the same memory biases we all have.  It's shown in studies that people tend to recall the frequency of standout events (especially negative ones) more highly than they occurred in actuality.

Plus, the actual probability of mana screw is a lot worse than people think unless they run the numbers.  You mentioned 4 mana in 10 turns.. if you start with 2, the probability of that happening is high enough that it'll happen once every 4 games or so.  It might help to consider that mana is about a third of the deck, so really you should only be expecting to draw 3 lands in 10 turns anyway.
You get mana screwed 50% of the time?  No wonder you're upset!

Joking, but I do think perhaps your recall is subject to the same memory biases we all have.  It's shown in studies that people tend to recall the frequency of standout events (especially negative ones) more highly than they occurred in actuality.


Same with win percentages. I'm starting to think that people who claim asspull win-rates are forgetting a commensurate number of their losses.
or perhaps you win/loose 50/50 - but just as being manascrewed or flooded stands out, so does your losses. And then you do a double-double-shuffle in your mind, thinking that if you remember about 50% losses, they since they surely stand out, you must have forgotten a BUNCH of wins. So you compensate, and say 90% win ratio. About right.

Regarding the AI:

I have only ever played it on planeswalker dif, and it DOES get mana-screwed, or flooded, or doesn't have an answer. I have seen AIs mulligan to 4 cards and play nothing but lands until it looses. It appears it mulligans to ensure lands, but rarely it does happen. It may know what a mulligan will be, to determine if it should mulligan or not.

It seems to know the outcome of a decision, even though it shouldn't. Goblin Guide being the best example, it will not attack you with a Goblin Guide if you have a land on top of your library.

However! It cannot see the outcome 2 moves ahead. So pump-spells work basicly EVERY TIME! AI attacks with the slightly bigger critter, even though you have a 2/1 first strike + a Giant Growth in hand and a Forest untapped. Same with other combat-tricks. I believe the AI does NOT know your hand per se.

If my hypothesis is correct, it also explains why Telemin Performance seems to hit the exact BOMB creature in your deck every time. The AI might have access to the outcome of that action, meaning it will choose to cast it when a nice beefy critter is the outcome.

And lastly, if you completely own the board and the AI has no chance of winning, it will just randomly suicide creatures on your big walls. So they added that "oh, it's hopeless"-mode aswell. 

And yes, everyone looses to the AI every once in a while, just like you loose to people. Remember, we ALL have 90% win ratios, even when we meet eachother!

And I like cake. 
or perhaps you win/loose 50/50 - but just as being manascrewed or flooded stands out, so does your losses. And then you do a double-double-shuffle in your mind, thinking that if you remember about 50% losses, they since they surely stand out, you must have forgotten a BUNCH of wins. So you compensate, and say 90% win ratio. About right.

And I like cake. 



The Cake Is a Lie.  My 90% win ratio is too....

You're a lose cannon.

 

 

"I played 70 card decks before it was cool to play 70 card decks." -Random M:tG hipster

I figure there must be a lot of people playing the AI if everyone has a 90% win ratio. Otherwise, who's doing all the losing? (Aside from randoms. :/ )

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.




As for the point the AI does get manna screwed...

  1. I have never seen this happen on planes walker, I have seen them hold back on dropping mana when i was mana "Screwed" but that was a buggie game. It was weird because they where dropping mana on their 2nd main in place of at the start of their turn. I used Liliana's specter on them and they discarded mana. I thought this was odd because they did not play mana in the last turn they had.

  2. The stats for them to be "Mana screwed" have to be different because when i was collecting datum to do the stats i used the AI as a base for the control group of normal. This would mean that the stats i have now are LOWER then the actual. So that would imply that the mana problem happens MORE. I find this defense to be lacking in logical terms, it only strengthens my case that this needs reworking.

As for the AI knowing your cards...

  1. I had no idea that they knew what cards are next but that makes sense considering its play style.

  2. The amount of counters it is capable of preforming simply are impossible with out "deck stacking" or set starts, if not then i need a program for my 360 that will give me winning lotto numbers. Yes it is that lucky and i would not mind it if my ol' slim baby would give me the jackpot that way i would have all the time in the world to play magic.

----

Thank you,
Major Rabid 



Hi! The incredibly lucky topdecking instances, the seeming lack of mana-screw, and probably anything other case of 'cheating' aside from actual randomness that is present in the game are due to two things.

1.) As has been mentioned before, the AI knows the order of its library. This goes a long way towards explaining all of the AI's topdecking luck. Because when you know what cards are coming up for you, you know exactly the best way to delay the game long enough to get to them, what specific 'bad' blocks are acceptable, etc. Knowing the order of your library is almost as valuable as stacking the deck. The AI can see the future. It is a tremendous advantage, and it is largely impossible to do away with because the AI needs to be able to see the result of its actions to assign point values to them in its decision tree.
2.) The AI gets extra free mulligans.

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Hi! The incredibly lucky topdecking instances, the seeming lack of mana-screw, and probably anything other case of 'cheating' aside from actual randomness that is present in the game are due to two things.


2.) The AI gets extra free mulligans.




IDK if that's entirely accurate.  I've seen the AI mulligan down to 5 several times.  The way you word it, it's hard to tell what you mean by "extra."  Do you mean all of it's mulligans are 7 cards?  or do you mean it gets 1, maybe 2 extra 7 card mulligans?  Of course, I couldn't even say for sure that it even gets 1 extra.  All I do know is that it will mulligan which leads us to believe that it doesn't "stack" the deck like the OP claims.

You're a lose cannon.

 

 

"I played 70 card decks before it was cool to play 70 card decks." -Random M:tG hipster

Extra - more than the one that real players get. I did not mean to imply that there were unlimited free mulligans.
What possible observation can you have made to lead you to that conclusion ?

Since the opponents hand is closed information to the player, apart from the number of cards. I'm curious.
It is with joy that i can read more input on this topic,

Before i start i must say that i just had all my progress in the campaign reset, I am quite irked about this when i found that for the 360 there is no fix. I was only missing a few duels from completing all the vanilla on planes walker, and had all my challenges done. Now i have to do it all again? that took me months to beat all the AI's.


As for the point the AI does get manna screwed...

  1. I have never seen this happen on planes walker, I have seen them hold back on dropping mana when i was mana "Screwed" but that was a buggie game. It was weird because they where dropping mana on their 2nd main in place of at the start of their turn. I used Liliana's specter on them and they discarded mana. I thought this was odd because they did not play mana in the last turn they had.

  2. The stats for them to be "Mana screwed" have to be different because when i was collecting datum to do the stats i used the AI as a base for the control group of normal. This would mean that the stats i have now are LOWER then the actual. So that would imply that the mana problem happens MORE. I find this defense to be lacking in logical terms, it only strengthens my case that this needs reworking.

As for the AI knowing your cards...

  1. I had no idea that they knew what cards are next but that makes sense considering its play style.

  2. The amount of counters it is capable of preforming simply are impossible with out "deck stacking" or set starts, if not then i need a program for my 360 that will give me winning lotto numbers. Yes it is that lucky and i would not mind it if my ol' slim baby would give me the jackpot that way i would have all the time in the world to play magic.

To say that these points are not true i will listen to, but with out data/datum to counter my research is not going to nullify my stance. 

Remember all this is IMHO and i am not flaming or pointing people out. I just really would like these issues addressed. Along with the whole campaign reset thing, i have sunk a lot of time in this game that now was for nothing... That in any video game is unacceptable hands down, and more evidence that this program has some serous foundation problems. If i keep playing will i lose all my decks and foils? Forum posts i have seen on the xbox forum state that no one received help or their items back, this to me is far more upsetting then any other problem. It is never good when a company does not back up their product with support,( forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_live_ar... ) this is very scary for me to see.

on a side note Good book Devil altough that set got kind of dull in the middle, but it was reborn again in ascension, although most people think that it was the start of the set. Alas, Destination was the start of it so it is a 4 book set with the last three being co-written. 

 "“the quandary is… one doesn't really get the chance to weild political power with out the ambition to actively seek it, and that same ambition often compromises the unselfish motives that started the quest. In other words, a battle of Id Vs. Ego that ego rarely wins" ( Battlestar Galactica episode “SINE QUA NON” 17min 53 sec )

Thank you,
Major Rabid 



Where are you getting this from? I have seen the AI bend over and take it when top decking plenty of times. BTW, I have it on planeswalker difficulty.

Extra - more than the one that real players get. I did not mean to imply that there were unlimited free mulligans.



What evidence do you have that would lead you to this conclusion?

You're a lose cannon.

 

 

"I played 70 card decks before it was cool to play 70 card decks." -Random M:tG hipster

If you all get to say the AI is stacking the deck, fixing its draws, giving aid to 90-card players, and so on, then I get to say it gets extra free mulligans.
If you all get to say the AI is stacking the deck, fixing its draws, giving aid to 90-card players, and so on, then I get to say it gets extra free mulligans.




All of those points have been shot down at one point or another. The AI knowing what card is next in order from a deck can be easily proven with a Goblin Guide as the AI will not attack if there is a land ontop of its opponents deck.
If you all get to say the AI is stacking the deck, fixing its draws, giving aid to 90-card players, and so on, then I get to say it gets extra free mulligans.



I never said it's stacking the deck, fixing the draws or gives preference to 80+ card decks so calling me out on that is pointless.  You can say the AI gets free mulligans all you want though if that makes you feel better.  If you payed any attention, everyone who does make those claims gets called out as well.  Proof or it didn't happen.

What I have said is that the AI knows what the top card of your library is, and this is easily proven with Goblin Guide, since the AI won't attack with it when your next draw is a land.  AI probably also knows the entire order of your library since it has a remarkable knack for pulling great creatures with Telemin Performance.

You're a lose cannon.

 

 

"I played 70 card decks before it was cool to play 70 card decks." -Random M:tG hipster

Hi! I'm not trying to start a thing with you specifically, sixty. I said "you all" as a shortened version of "the significant subgroup of the online Duels community that has been vocal on the subject of AI tricks in the past".

I had done an experiment with Duels '09 that led me to the simplest possible conclusion being extra free mulligans. It was basically "play against Ajani while noting mulligans, cards in opening hand, and in what % of games he smoothly arrives at Mountain-Forest-Plains."

If I was thinking then I would have customized a card that immediately discards the opponent's hand and then mills for 3. Results wouldn't be different, but it wouldn't have taken so long.
IRL mana is more consistent because of how you can shuffle the deck yourself. You can pretty much make it so that you have every 3rd turn mana card you need.

Here it is random you cannot decide how to shuffle them so sometimes you have no mana for 15 turns and sometimes only mana for 15 turns. Should never EVER happen. No one irl shuffles THAT bad. 
well the ai has cards we don't have.. for example lilliana has 3 of those mana ramp like medallions and I could of sworn she had 2 mutilates.

Another thing I noticed with dimir's extract card is difficulty does affect the order of cards in certain deck.  AI jace's counterspells are towards the bottom of his deck on ez and not as near the bottom as you turn the difficulty up. I unlocked all my decks against ai jace and on varying difficultys and on ez I never saw a counterspell.. So much that I in fact thought that easy AI jace didn't even have counterspells in his deck or ez AI wouldn't use a counterspell even if its in his hand.... till I was unlocking dimir and was extracting him

Still could be just coincedence or short term memory but....um yea was alot of matches against jace to unlock everything.  

anyway by that I don't think the ai is tutoring cards to screw you right when he needs it...just that on harder difficultys he has more usefull cards closer to the top of his library.  Or its possible that on ez he purposely sticks his best cards on the bottom, hmmmm

But to killyox if it is truly random you could potential have all land for 24 straight cards.  Not likely but its absolutly possible if your deck is truly random.
IRL mana is more consistent because of how you can shuffle the deck yourself. You can pretty much make it so that you have every 3rd turn mana card you need.


There's a term for that you know...

It's called "Cheating ****".
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