Thoughts on Ban list update?

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Incase you hadn't heard the ban list was updated today.  


Trade Secrets banned.

Staff of Domination unbanned.


Can be viewed here:
mtgcommander.net/rules.php 



now what I want to ask is how do you guys think this is going to effect your metas? 
Trade secrets is a funny banning, I sort of agree with their reasoning, but think it's just another example of players being greedy.  Staff of Domination is a retarded unbanning for the same reason.  It's far more abusable than trade secrets.  Let's create another race towards an infinite mana combo.

Stop invading my meta with your meta, RC.
Looks like palencron has an old friend back.
Looks like palencron has an old friend back.

How does Staff work with Pali?

Pali + high tide/caged sun/extraplanar lense/gauntlet of power/etc. + staff =controller happy and opponents hopes they die last.
Trade Secrets? Seriously? About the only way for it to be truly bad is if it was used between two friends do it wasn't really a negative. But the rest of the meta should catch on to that kind of shenanigan and team up on them, anyhow.

Plus I find it comical that a card put in the Commander precons is now banned.

Current EDH Decks: Radha Timmy, Oona exile/mill, Edric aggro, Marath tokens, Uril Voltron, Ertai counters, Sek'Kuar sac engines, Ezuri elf tribal, Oloro life gain, Zedruu tokens, White Mikaeus indestructible, Riku allies, Ghave synergy, Momir Vig Simic to a fault, Zur pillow fort/extort, Cromat artifacts, Rafiq aggro, Nekuzar zombies, Prossh creature beats, Roon ETB/bounce, Garza Zol vampires.

 

 

 

Dont really get the trade secrets banning but I'm not about to complain about the staff's unbanning.
I don't have any secret insight into it, but I'd be willing to bet that most of the banning of Trade Secrets has more to do with side events at larger tournaments and collusion between 2 players.

Staff of Domination is a bit perplexing to me. I mean isn't Trading Post the fixed Staff?
The RC doesn't give a damn about tournaments or anything else resembling competitiveness.

Every time I personally played with Secrets it was "Draw four cards. Target opponent draws two cards." I never played with a targeted player dumb enough to keep going.

I guess I should be happy with this update; none of my decks got destroyed this time.
I'm really confused as to why Staff of Domination got unbanned. Guess I need one now though. 
But see, they probably do care a bit about competition. Maybe not in tournaments, but it's a casual format so things that make people unable to "compete" is what gets banned. I guess I can see their point, I'm still perplexed a bit but all the while neither of these changes will likely affect me or my group.
Lol with the banning of trade secrets since it's on one of the pre cons
I have a Palinchron combo available in my Memnarch EDH deck, so I really don't care that Staff is back since I always have Memnarch to go infinite on - it doesn't really add anything since it isn't very good by itself.

Trade Secrets ban seems weird. Why?
Trade Secrets ban seems weird. Why?


I think they just wanted to do something. It just feels too arbitrary.  I understood previous bans even when I disagreed, but this seems utterly silly.  My opinion of the RC has declined sharply over this past year.

University of Charleston School of Pharmacy, Class of 2016

My Peasant Cube: A Cube for the Commoners

But see, they probably do care a bit about competition. Maybe not in tournaments, but it's a casual format so things that make people unable to "compete" is what gets banned.


That's not what "competitiveness" means in this context.

It means approaching the format with winning games as a priority. 
Posted this in the wrong thread apparently(Rules and FAQs)...oh well.

Yeah, the Do-Anything Stick's unbanning was a big WTH?!? moment for me.  The site I was informed of the changes finished off by saying, "Let's use it responsibly, now."  Yeah...responsibly.  We'll go with that.

I saw Trade Secrets go bonkers once, between two guys who had Consecrated Sphinxes out.  Hilariously, the guy who played the spell ended up losing...but I can see it go bonkers in a few rare instances.  You guys make the same points I thought of, though:  1)How many times have I seen it in a game?  Less than 5.  2)A precon Commander card?  Seriously, RC?  And 3)WTH kinda wimpy reason is that?!?

As RxPhantom said, I've understood previous bannings even if I didn't like them(Prime Time and Griselbrand, for example).  This is just...at the very least, weird.  At the worst, lazy.
Trade Secrets ban seems weird. Why?


I think they just wanted to do something. It just feels too arbitrary.

If you look over at MTGS and the EDH main site more than one group of people made a very convincing argument: The card easily eliminates all but 2 people from the game when used 'correctly'. If 5 people are in a game, and 3 can be eliminated with a 3 CMC card, it will happen. It does not do anything unique except get used for terrible games. 
I understood previous bans even when I disagreed, but this seems utterly silly.  My opinion of the RC has declined sharply over this past year.

You said almost the exact same thing about Prime Time. Point?


I have a signed foil walking sponge...
Posted this in the wrong thread apparently(Rules and FAQs)...oh well.

Yeah, the Do-Anything Stick's unbanning was a big WTH?!? moment for me.  The site I was informed of the changes finished off by saying, "Let's use it responsibly, now."  Yeah...responsibly.  We'll go with that.

It reflects a bit of a change in philosophy. Things like Lions eye and Worldgorger dragon have been unbanned and their only uses are in combos. Neither card is likely to really throw metas into hysterics either. 

Staff sorta fits that too. Its only degenerate in decks that are looking to be degenerate. I will put them into decks, but avoid my black and Green cuz they run Magus of the Coffers and Rofelos respectively. 

Other than that, its a swiss army knife that my monored and Karn deck are happy for.


I saw Trade Secrets go bonkers once, between two guys who had Consecrated Sphinxes out.  Hilariously, the guy who played the spell ended up losing...but I can see it go bonkers in a few rare instances.  You guys make the same points I thought of, though:  1)How many times have I seen it in a game?  Less than 5.  2)A precon Commander card?  Seriously, RC?  And 3)WTH kinda wimpy reason is that?!?

As RxPhantom said, I've understood previous bannings even if I didn't like them(Prime Time and Griselbrand, for example).  This is just...at the very least, weird.  At the worst, lazy.

I don't understand Trade Secrets. I understand the reasoning they gave... but really don't believe that reasoning is ever applicable.

If Trade Secrets is ruining games, that something the group should be able to regulate. I mean, it takes two people to collude to draw out their decks, and it isn't difficult to deal with that in a consistent group. In games where you aren't really familiar with the decks, why would you ever play trade secrets? Are cards being banned because players are bad at the game?

I also wonder why anyone would actually play the card and target someone with the potential to win if they draw their deck. Sure it sounds great when you say one card can eliminate all but two players... but that just doesn't fly with me. Suppose I cast TS, and my target doesn't have a deck likely to win on the spot for drawing, they probably won't- meaning I can't draw mine. I'm certainly not going to target the guy who is likely to win for drawing their deck... So now I have to target the deck that's equally likely to win as me? Who does that? Who actually makes that play often enough that its causing enough problems to out weigh the political plays I have seen TS used for 90% of the time.

Its a stupid ban.

3DH4LIF3

Its a stupid ban.


I agree 100%.  The only time I've even seen someone play it was me, and it's only happened once because it's in a deck I built relatively recently.  I drew 8 cards, my opponent drew 4.  And that was that.  I think you're entirely right insofar as an issue being brought about by Trade Secrets is one that could easily solved within the social framework of one's group.  There are so many cards more delinquent than Trade Secrets out there.  Heck, they just unbanned one!

It's so arbitrary and out of left field that I can't help but think it's only been a major problem in the RC's meta, as a previous poster suggested.

University of Charleston School of Pharmacy, Class of 2016

My Peasant Cube: A Cube for the Commoners

Trade Secrets to me is a strange choice to ban. As mentioned by others already, it only wins when someone lets it win, and if it does, it is in a degenerate deck that probably is equally unfun because of the other 99 cards in it. Sure it can win someone a game now and again, by sheer luck or opponent stupidity, but overall, it isn't a game-winner by itself. I have more trouble with jank like Anowon, The Ruin Sage. Why not ban Sun Quan, Lord of Wu since few people use horsemanship? Or Banefire since I lost a game to that once?

Really, I don't like these "official" bans, but I guess I don't have a say in the matter.

As for Staff of Domination, it is just a utility tool I'll run in a few decks, but I won't use for stupid combo properties. I also run Trading Post and Druidic Satchel, as I like the odd effects and find such versatility fun and amusing, and even useful sometimes.

Maybe one guy in a Rules Committee game cast TS and beat the rest of the table, while a guy playing Staff didn't get his combo off, so they decided to switch those cards' ban status....who knows.

Life will go on, I'll keep playing Commander, keep not playing Trade Secrets, and start playing my Staffs again to mediocre results.
If I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, I still believe I'm right. Think of it as religion. dubito ergo sum.
Trade Secrets banned, but Deadeye Navigator and Consecrated Sphinx aren't? Have people been complaining about it... or even using it really?

Staff of Domination seemed like one of the few things that could come off the list, but, I'm really surprised it wasn't Protean Hulk.
Maybe one guy in a Rules Committee game cast TS and beat the rest of the table, while a guy playing Staff didn't get his combo off, so they decided to switch those cards' ban status....who knows.



LOL. 
Maybe one guy in a Rules Committee game cast TS and beat the rest of the table, while a guy playing Staff didn't get his combo off, so they decided to switch those cards' ban status....who knows.



LOL. 


this, this, forever
Consecrated sphinx isn't as threatening as it should to warrant a ban. Other players should be able to deal with it before its controller draws to much. A player having more draws is good, but it doesn't nearly win the game unless its controller has the mana to win or combo pieces. Its good and best used late game when players run out of resources/answers. I find players dont run spot removal or barely any--players treat edh like solitaire with friends. I think dead eye is good. Deadeye is not bannable good. He relies on a strong mana base and another strong etb or leave the battlefield effect. Gotta go to class.
We're not talking degree of cards drawn that is the problem:  It's his ability to net you draws with a 4/6 body for that is the problem.  Of course he will be killed on sight if possible, but his passive massive CA makes him bonkers.

Deadeye is great, but I agree that he isn't super great. 
Generally speaking, there are very few creatures that are powerful enough to be banned.  Their type alone ensures that they're easy to kill.  Now, if you pop some fancy fashion accessories on said creature, it deserves to stick around a while.  I know my Consecrated Sphinx doesn't go out without some protection.

University of Charleston School of Pharmacy, Class of 2016

My Peasant Cube: A Cube for the Commoners

Its just that decks are built to abuse the sphinx or are efficient enough to use it. That is my opinion. I find most people only run about ~6-8 removal in their decks and half are wraths. Most would rather keep their board position rather than wrath. Keep board presence and let the player draw 2 cards.

It has to be played late game to take control bc it has to be protected. Unlike primevil titan which laid a foundation for a player to play any card. Primevil titan could be played anytime with little fear. If it was removed then you keep what magic is based on mana. The whole meta was based off primevil titan and consecrated sphinx isn't close to thay strong.
Sphinx is banned in my playgroup because when someone dropped one, instead of destroying it, it turned into a game where everyone has a clone of it and everyone just draws till they get their win con. It warped the way the game was played at my lgs so we banned it.
I don't think it should be officially banned. If you don't want to play with it talk to your playgroup and see if they'll agree to a ban. If not then build a deck to abuse it as much as possible and in the most degenerate way so they see you point.
I have a signed foil walking sponge...
The same thing happened in my 11 blight steel game. Or my everyone had a spearbreaker behemoth game. Games like those just happen. I played commander before it was commander and from that experience I realised abused cards are out there, but playing a balanced deck helps. It wont stop the inevitable, but curve out the edges.
The same thing happened in my 11 blight steel game. Or my everyone had a spearbreaker behemoth game. Games like those just happen. I played commander before it was commander and from that experience I realised abused cards are out there, but playing a balanced deck helps. It wont stop the inevitable, but curve out the edges.



But this was every game not just one every once in a while. I get what you're saying but there isn't the same incentive to clone blightsteel as there is with sphinx. It's easy for players to build decks that are fun and not overly degenerate but it's really hard for players to intentionally make misplays like destroying a sphinx instead of cloning it (in almost every situation cloning it is the right play). We banned it at my lgs because it warped the format in a way that didn't produce fun games for us but that is our meta. maybe other groups don't run as many clone effects or something. I feel that it should be up to the local playgroup though.
 
I have a signed foil walking sponge...
Its something that a play group should talk over and not wait for wizards to ban it bc there are many cards of its power level that get the same treatment, but not getting talked about a ban. Blightsteel, iona, restoration angel, etc. don't get banned and are just as abusable.

I think players must play within their playgroups rules and play level.
I would say that Sphinx is a step up in power over those creatures because none of those say "draw your whole deck if this gets cloned". I think that if sphinx isn't banned then neither should griselbrand be banned from the 99.

I agree that it should be a playgroup thing.
I have a signed foil walking sponge...
Grisel brand is far worse. Im not going to explain that bc everyone should know why. I lost credibility in you PEGxPELVISxPETE. That is such a bad idea--the efficiency alone.
Grisel brand is far worse. Im not going to explain that bc everyone should know why. I lost credibility in you PEGxPELVISxPETE. That is such a bad idea--the efficiency alone.



I agree that griselbrand is more powerful but not by as much as you seem to think. Blue is more powerful than black and can protect it's board far better. Griselbrand is more color intensive. Sphinx is not legendary. Griselbrand requires an additional resource (although ife is generally not very important). And your opponent almost always wants to destroy/exile griselbrand but most of the time your opponent would rather clone the sphinx than destroy it so they can draw their deck (in which case it turns into a game of who draws their win con first so they can decline the draw trigger).
I have a signed foil walking sponge...
The griselbrand is in a whole other level you wouldn't believe. Trust me and if you don't; lets have everyone else weigh in. Blue is the strongest color, but that doesn't merit an unbanning of griselbrand.

I agree that griselbrand is more powerful but not by as much as you seem to think. Blue is more powerful than black and can protect it's board far better. Griselbrand is more color intensive. Sphinx is not legendary. Griselbrand requires an additional resource (although ife is generally not very important). And your opponent almost always wants to destroy/exile griselbrand but most of the time your opponent would rather clone the sphinx than destroy it so they can draw their deck (in which case it turns into a game of who draws their win con first so they can decline the draw trigger).

 
Grizz is leagues better. You can only draw out you deck is someone ELSE has one and you clone it. Color power has nothing to do with cards being banned or not.

I agree that griselbrand is more powerful but not by as much as you seem to think. Blue is more powerful than black and can protect it's board far better. Griselbrand is more color intensive. Sphinx is not legendary. Griselbrand requires an additional resource (although ife is generally not very important). And your opponent almost always wants to destroy/exile griselbrand but most of the time your opponent would rather clone the sphinx than destroy it so they can draw their deck (in which case it turns into a game of who draws their win con first so they can decline the draw trigger).

 
Grizz is leagues better. You can only draw out you deck is someone ELSE has one and you clone it. Color power has nothing to do with cards being banned or not.



That's 1
You guys realize that this thread is a hoax right?
You guys realize that this thread is a hoax right?


?
No. Trade Secrets was banned. Staff was unbanned.

No hoax, but maybe some Jokes. 

3DH4LIF3

You guys realize that this thread is a hoax right?


What?  I think your post is a hoax.

Side note, I just discovered that blocking someone doesn't matter, because you see what they said when they're quoted or when they're among the previous ten posts when you post something.  Silly.

University of Charleston School of Pharmacy, Class of 2016

My Peasant Cube: A Cube for the Commoners

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