Char-Op Community Ranking for Classes

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Char-Op Community Ranking for Classes


How do I know which is the best "leader" ?

Well, the answer to that is problematic, since "leading, striking, defending and controlling" involve doing more than just one thing. A striker who can't stand a single hit (his fair share of "damage" according to the rules) isn't a proper striker. Leading isn't healing, and so on. Class capacities also vary according to the Tier they are in.

With that in mind, I decided to rate them according to the multiple fields a given role should cover,
that is, a leader should "enable, buff/debuff, allow saving throws, heal...".

Disclaimer: 

1- Although it should go without saying, this guide is subjective. Many of these classes can be heavy-optimized to go from Red to Black or even Blue. The reverse is also true, meaning that a class with great potential, depending on your choices of build and or actions/understanding of the system may turn it into a complete mess.

2- With that said, I assume here that we're only taking into account the classes per se without packages such as charge-optimization and so on.

3- Mind you that this will not go over hybrids or multiclass territory. It may be that some of the classes that show up here are way better as hybrids or mc.

4- This isn't my work alone. Think of me as a scribe whose task is but to gather the collective wisdom of the Char-Op forum and put it down so that those new to the system have an easier time figuring out what they want and how much of that do they want.

Ratings Key:
Red - Garbage, or completely overshadowed by another option.
Magenta - Situationally useful, but overall pretty meh.
Black - OK. You could do worse than pick this.
Blue - Good stuff. You probably want this.
Sky Blue - You want this. Period.
Gold - The best at what it does.

The "why" of some Red classes are explained here: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

What are the capacities rated here:

Show

Buffing - Generally defined as the ability to affect your allies' rolls in a positive way, that is, granting bonus to hit and damage for example.

Debuffing - The ability to disrupt the opponent, whether through attack penalties, defense penalties, status effects, or forced movement.

Enabling - The ability to let your allies do what they normally couldn't do, such as extra attacks, better positioning, granting saving throws and so on.

Healing - That's it, plain' ol' healing.

Survivability - Staying alive, be it through using better armor, powers, abilities, hit points...

Damage per Round - The ammount of damage you can generate in a round and keep doing it round after round.

Spike Damage (also referred as: Burst Damage or Nova) - The most damage you can dish out in a single instance, usually in an encounter.

Targeting Capacity - Usually measures how many enemies you can hit in a round.

Stickiness - How capable are you at sticking to your target and not letting it escape from your grap.

Leaders


Heroic Leaders
Ardent:
       Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Artificer:     Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Bard:          Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Cleric:         Enabling Debuffing Healing; Buffing Saves
Runepriest:  Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Sentinel:     Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Shaman:     Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Warlord:     Enabling; Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Warpriest:  Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves

Paragon Leaders
Ardent:       Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Artificer:     Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Bard:          Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Cleric:         Enabling Debuffing Healing; Buffing Saves
Runepriest:  Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Sentinel:     Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Shaman:     Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Warlord:     Enabling; Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Warpriest:  Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves

Epic
Leaders
Ardent:       Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Artificer:     Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Bard:          Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Cleric:         Enabling Debuffing Healing; Buffing Saves
Runepriest:  Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Sentinel:     Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Shaman:     Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Warlord:     Enabling; Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves
Warpriest:  Enabling Debuffing Healing Buffing Saves

Controllers


Heroic Controllers:
Bladesinger: Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;

Druid:             Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
(Swarm):                                                                                Survivability;
Hunter:          Battlefield-Control; DebuffingSurvivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Invoker:         Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Mage:            Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Psion:             Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;

Seeker:          Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Sha'ir:             Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Wizard(Arcanist):  Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;

Witch:            Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;

Paragon Controllers:
Bladesinger: Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Druid:             Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
(Swarm):                                                                         Survivability;

Hunter:          Battlefield-Control
; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Invoker:         Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Mage:            Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Psion:             Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;

Seeker:          Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Sha'ir:             Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Wizard(Arcanist):  Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Witch:            Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;

Epic Controllers:
Bladesinger: Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Druid:             Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
(Swarm):                                                                         Survivability;
Hunter:          Battlefield-Control
; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Invoker:         Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Mage:            Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Psion:             Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;

Seeker:          Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Sha'ir:           Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Wizard(Arcanist):  Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Witch:            Battlefield-Control; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;

Special Notes:
As you can see, Wizard has 5 classes:
The original wizard called "Arcanist"; the Mage; the Sha'ir; the Witch and the Bladesinger.
All of them are very good controllers because they use wizard powers. If we compare them to each other, though, the Mage and the Arcanist are better than the Witch and the Sha'ir


On Controller Survivability:


Anyway, I think I got controller survivability figured out.
Druid is king: good HP, good armor, good defensive utilities.
Hunter and Seeker are good, as they have the HP and the armor, but not the utilities.
Wizard is their opposite: no good HP or armor, but numerous good utilities plus staff of defense. Invoker is average, since it gets decent armor but little else.
Psion
is weak, since it doesn't have anything defensive in particular, other than to Will.
Swarm druid is not actually all that bad in heroic tier (although yes, it gets worse in paragon). You could just play it dex/wis as a regular druid; otherwise it becomes black instead of skyblue (at heroic tier) since it still has decent armor and HP for a controller, but it is more close range than its counterparts.
Bladesinger is a special case; on the one hand, it gets decent HP, armor, and the wizard's good defensive utilities. On the other hand, its default build is dex/int, and unlike everything else here it's supposed to be in melee a lot. I suppose it's black overall.


Defenders


Heroic Defenders
Battlemind:   Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Cavalier:       Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Knight:          Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Fighter:         Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Paladin:         Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Swordmage: Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Warden:        Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness

Paragon Defenders
Battlemind:   Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Cavalier:       Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Knight:          Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Fighter:         Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Paladin:         Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Swordmage:  Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Warden:        Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness

Epic Defenders

Battlemind:   Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Cavalier:       Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Knight:          Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Fighter:         Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Paladin:         Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Swordmage:  Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness
Warden:        Battlefield-Control; Damage; Mobility; Stickiness

Strikers


Heroic Strikers
Assassin
: Bf-Control; Spike Dmg; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Avenger: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Barbarian: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Berserker: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Blackguard: Bf-Control; Spike Dmg; DPR; Debuffing;  Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Executioner: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Hexblade: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Monk:      Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Ranger:   Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Rogue:    Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Scout:     Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Slayer:    Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Sorcerer: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Thief:      Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Warlock: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity

Paragon Strikers
Assassin
: Bf-Control; Spike Dmg; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Avenger: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Barbarian: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Berserker: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Blackguard: Bf-Control; Spike Dmg; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Executioner: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Hexblade: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Monk:      Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Ranger:   Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Rogue:    Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Scout:     Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Slayer:    Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Sorcerer: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Thief:      Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Warlock: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity

Epic Strikers
Assassin
: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Avenger: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Barbarian: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Berserker: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Blackguard: Bf-Control; Spike Dmg; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Executioner: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Hexblade: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Monk:      Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Ranger:   Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Rogue:    Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Scout:     Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Slayer:    Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Sorcerer: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Thief:      Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Warlock: Bf-Control; Spike Damage; DPR; Debuffing; Survivability; Targeting Capacity
Please, feel free to discuss the rankings and suggest. I will keep a watchful eye on this thread and update it as you reach conclusions (as close as possible to a consensus).
Minor formatting thing: you didn't give headers for the defender and striker rankings stating that they are the defender and striker rankings.  Most people that are likely to read this in the first place should be able to figure it out on their own, but thought I'd point it out anyway.
Are you going to break down the classes a little more? I know it's more work, but a ranged ranger is very different from a melee one. Are you ranking on ease of optimizing in these categories or the possible maximum op? In other words, ar these ratings for noobs or ops?

also, i hope to see an equivalent for hybrid op, since pretty much every build that gets posted nowadays is hybrid. I'd do it myself, but i dont think i have the clout on these boards or the time. 
xD I was fixing as you posted. Now I'll color the ones I'm sure there will be not much argument.
It might be better to rank them in an easier format to read - say something like this:
Warlord
Enabling: Heroic Paragon Epic
Debuffing: Heroic Paragon Epic
Saving Throws: Heroic Paragon Epic
Healing: Heroic Paragon Epic
Cormac, I don't have plans for hybrids, I'm not much of a fan although I wished I knew more about them. All I can do is point you to this: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

As for the different builds, I intend to write them as soon as the char-opers post and point.
I can never see there being consensus on this topic. What is objectively poor is much easier to point out that what is objectively good.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
I agree with mwao's for,atting suggestions... I really appreciate the miscibility threads, but something more complete, lile what you are about to do would be helpful... I have also thought about putting together a warlord|x handbook, since just about every build i do hybrids warlord, and there is a pretty amazing variety.
ok, I'll adjust the format to MWaO's suggestion =D
This is an excellent idea for a thread, and I applaud the effort!
It might be better to rank them in an easier format to read - say something like this:
Warlord
Enabling: Heroic Paragon Epic
Debuffing: Heroic Paragon Epic
Saving Throws: Heroic Paragon Epic
Healing: Heroic Paragon Epic

Good point. Actually, what might be even better is this. This puts all the information of a class on a single line and lets you compare it with other classes, per tier. It strikes me as the most convenient way to find out "which striker is the best at paragon if I like damage and debuffs".

Heroic leaders
Cleric:     buff, debuff, heal, enable, savingthrow
Druid:      buff, debuff, heal, enable, savingthrow
Warlord: buff, debuff, heal, enable, savingthrow
(these colors are random placeholders, in case that wasn't obvious; this would be even better if this forum supports tables in a practical way)

Paragon leaders
Cleric: buff, debuff, heal, enable, savingthrow
Druid: buff, debuff, heal, enable, savingthrow
Warlord: buff, debuff, heal, enable, savingthrow

Epic leaders
Cleric: buff, debuff, heal, enable, savingthrow
Druid: buff, debuff, heal, enable, savingthrow
Warlord: buff, debuff, heal, enable, savingthrow


I would suggest, in case a class might be rated differently in low-heroic and in high-heroic, to establish a clear baseline, such as 3 / 13 / 23 for heroic / paragon / epic resp. It strikes me that the lower end of a tier is played more than the upper end, and that you may need a few levels above 1 / 11 / 21 to get some combo going. Many iconic powers are L3, and it would be unfair to rate e.g. the heroic sorcerer on the few levels where it doesn't have Flame Spiral yet. $.02.
Changed the formatting and added some shy colors. If someone wants to get his/her hands on this and help the project more directly, PM me and I may send my username/password so that the job get done.
This is a great deal of subjectivity parading around as objective.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Just to get this off the ground, here's a full category for you. Disclaimer: I am not a charop regular, so if one of the frequent people here has a different rating, I suggest you take theirs over mine.

Heroic Controllers:
Bladesinger:
Battlefield-Control; Debilitating-Effects; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Druid:             Battlefield-Control; Debilitating-Effects; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Hunter:          Battlefield-Control; Debilitating-Effects; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Invoker:         Battlefield-Control; Debilitating-Effects; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Psion:             Battlefield-Control; Debilitating-Effects; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Seeker:          Battlefield-Control; Debilitating-Effects; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;
Wizard:           Battlefield-Control; Debilitating-Effects; Survivability; Targeting-Capacity;

For BF control, I take it this means zones/walls and forced movement. Wizard and invoker are king, followed by druid. BS and hunter don't really seem to do this much.

Debilitating effects, I assume, is how many conditions a class can deal out. Area effects really help with this, unless the single-target conditions are really nasty. Invoker and wizard win due to encounter-winning spells like Silent Malediction and Sleep. Psion is solid, but dishearten spam doesn't become great until paragon/epic tier. I'm seeing a lack of good options for hunter and bladesinger here.

I'm drawing a blank on survivability, but seeker/druid have more hit points and wizard has staff of defense plus numerous good defensive utilities. This requires a close analysis of the various classes' defenses, but off the top of my head I'm not seeing a big difference here.

Targeting capacity: wizard has long-range (11+) powers, huge areas thanks to enlarge spell, and sufficient friendly spells. Invoker has almost exclusively friendly spells, but mostly smaller ones and range 5-10. Psion and druid are the default - mostly "burst 1 within 10". Seeker and hunter have the issue that their bursts need to center on an enemy. And bladesinger is basically single-target; then again, we knew he's not really a controller anyway.

Suggested addition: SUMMONS, for those classes that have them (just add it to the end of the line and leave it off for classes that don't). It strikes me that Druid and Wizard have excellent summons (due to instinctive/intrinsic abilities) and Invoker has some average ones.


$.02. Good luck with this thread!

This is a great deal of subjectivity parading around as objective.



I'm aware that the different builds present a pitfall to the current formatting, but I'm aware of this and as these issues pop up, I'll add the builds with their rankings' modifications.
I can never see there being consensus on this topic. What is objectively poor is much easier to point out that what is objectively good.


This is a great deal of subjectivity parading around as objective.


Ah, just give it a chance, people. If you ask the ten most prominent posters of this forum and take the average of their ratings, you'll end up with a useful answer. It works for other games including Street Fighter IV, D&D 3E, and Warhammer, so there's no reason why it can't work here.

The goal here is usability, not unanimously-agreed perfection. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Char... gives some examples of how this can be done. 
Except the invoker spells that are non-friendly happen to be their best (e.g. the burst 6 stun).

 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Except the invoker spells that are non-friendly happen to be their best (e.g. the burst 6 stun).
 


Did you mean Word of Bewilderment? Because that's epic tier, not heroic, and ratings are split by tier.
That'll teach me to sleep when my brain is saying "go to bed instead".
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
I also think the overall rating of the class ought to get rated. As an example, a Cleric might be a Sky Blue Healer and a Warlord a Sky Blue Enabler, but I think most people would rate Warlord over Cleric as an overall Leader without much argument.
I think you should Sblock each class and do a breakdown of rating by build. Not the easiest thing in the world, but some builds are significantly stronger than others. See the Warlock handbook pact post for an example.
I think you should Sblock each class and do a breakdown of rating by build. Not the easiest thing in the world, but some builds are significantly stronger than others. See the Warlock handbook pact post for an example.


I think this only applies to a few classes, and for those, a separate line would be clearer than an sblock that needs to be clicked to open.

For instance, the much-maligned Sha'Ir does indeed have a weaker class feature than the Arcanist or Mage does; and there is little mechanical reason to ever play one. But overall? It's still a wizard. It can pick all of the wizard's best powers and feats. In the categories we have now for controllers, it's the same as the wizard, except one notch lower in Debilitating Effects because it doesn't get Orb of Imposition. Worth noting, for sure, but not worth a separate statblock with a lengthy explanation.


Anyway, I think I got controller survivability figured out.
Druid is king: good HP, good armor, good defensive utilities. Hunter and Seeker are good, as they have the HP and the armor, but not the utilities. Wizard is their opposite: no good HP or armor, but numerous good utilities plus staff of defense. Invoker is average, since it gets decent armor but little else. Psion is weak, since it doesn't have anything defensive in particular, other than to Will.
The swarm druid is not actually all that bad in heroic tier (although yes, it gets worse in paragon). You could just play it dex/wis as a regular druid; otherwise it becomes black instead of skyblue (at heroic tier) since it still has decent armor and HP for a controller, but it is more close range than its counterparts. And the Bladesinger is a special case; on the one hand, it gets decent HP, armor, and the wizard's good defensive utilities. On the other hand, its default build is dex/int, and unlike everything else here it's supposed to be in melee a lot. I suppose it's black overall.

Punishment should be a category for defenders. It really highlights why the Cavalier is so weak, for instance.

@Kurald:

Cleric: Two builds that differ greatly in power.

Fighter: Five, three of which differ greatly in power.

Paladin: Three

Ranger: Five, three of which differ greatly in power.

Warpriest: Nine builds, with at least four levels of varied rankings between them.

Rogue: Four builds, all of which are very different and have at least two, perhaps three, rankings.

Warlock: Seven builds (though you can include another one at Paragon via TFP), each of which is very different in terms of power rankings.

Warlord: Seven builds, minimum of three different levels of effectiveness, not counting melee vs archer or Battlefront/Canny/Combat leader.

Avenger: Three builds, minimum of two rankings.

I could go on like this. The list of classes that don't have significant differences between builds is much shorter than the ones that do and, of those, most are Essentials classes where you don't get to pick anything anyway.
How do you define Targeting Capacity, and why is it only listed for controllers and strikers? (last part also goes for Survivability) Under what category do you list the capability of leaders to grant movement effects? Why is Mobility not listed for strikers? Why are Debilitating Effects listed for strikers and not for defenders, and what's the difference between it and Debuffing?

Valiant effort, but you really need to think about and explain your choice of criteria more.
How do you define Targeting Capacity, and why is it only listed for controllers and strikers? (last part also goes for Survivability) Under what category do you list the capability of leaders to grant movement effects? Why is Mobility not listed for strikers? Why are Debilitating Effects listed for strikers and not for defenders, and what's the difference between it and Debuffing? Valiant effort, but you really need to think about and explain your choice of criteria more.




to be honest, I just copied the capacities the handbooks listed

Most roles had the criteria shown above. Perhaps I'll put an equal number of criteria for all of them...
erachima, as valuable and intelligent a member you are, I must confess that sometimes I get annoyed by the fact that you often bash without even offering a single word of constructive criticism :/
So please, instead of saying this, could you actually contribute towards better ratings according to your expertise?
I love how the answer to criticism is always "help me do this better" instead of perhaps that "this" was never a good idea in the first place. This will turn into a freaking Baja thread, of a few people dominating the conversation of what is good. This is pretty much an inevitability. And Frankly, your desire to begin a flurry of "handbooks" just means that you will lack the oversight to do any effectively.

Also, ranking classes is fraught with issues and as I said earlier, pointless. Erachima is an arrogant bastard, and often wrong despite his claims. He's right here. 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
No handbook that I can think of matches that requirement. Not sure why this guide should be subjected to that impossible standard.
In a word: Context.
The problem is that classes cannot be given generic ratings --or even relative ratings-- at the resolution you're attempting to do. Yes, many guides (including mine) give color-coded ratings of the classes' strengths, but this is not only a dubious practice to begin with but is given with a large amount of supplementary information that this guide does not offer.



I love how the answer to criticism is always "help me do this better" instead of perhaps that "this" was never a good idea in the first place. This will turn into a freaking Baja thread, of a few people dominating the conversation of what is good.



I do understand those issues and I know I don't have all the understanding to pull this alone.
For the ratings here, this is meant to be a reference, not the "how to play the class to its strengths and weaknesses" that's what the handbooks (the up-to-date ones at least) are for.

And this *doing this all by myself* isn't my intent from the start. There's a disclaimer in the OP that says

"This isn't my work alone. Think of me as a scribe whose task is but to gather the collective wisdom of the Char-Op forum and put it down so that those new to the system have an easier time figuring out what they want and how much of that do they want."

I was very happy to see ppl commenting and debating the classes and its pros-cons, even correcting some users that were oblivious to the "more recent" powers of some builds/classes (ensnaring swordmage, seeker). Now that the edition has reached a stopping point is the time to gather everything learned and rething/consolidate the knowledge.

It's plain to see that 4e is in its last throes if not already dead. And still, we have many viewers and few posters, worst of all, few *new* posters.
I'm a regular at GITP 3.5 forums and they have new ppl coming on a daily basis, asking the same old questions, but still they answer and explain, and even ocasionally pull some new trick when everyone thought all was known and done. And I thought "why it isn't so here?"

You may say that what I'm trying to accomplish is born out of ego and pride, which I do take some in seeing those few contributing to the debate (even if old news to char-op veterans like you two). But after all is said and done, what I do isn't for the veteran. It's for the noob who deserves simpler explanations and guides.

Possibly, I've angered you even more, but at least my reasons are better explained. Regardless, I still wish and want you to keep contributing to the project. =)
I think the targeting capacity of the Bladesinger is actually pretty decent, since bladespells can be distributed wherever, and at higher levels you're doing like burst 1 attacks, each of which can generate a bladespell.  This gives them a fairly unique ability to pile them all onto one target if desired. And then there's the dailies, which are wizard-level targeting. The actual control that they provide isn't impressive, but I'd probably rate them as black for the purposes of targeting, or at least purple.

And I agree that we'll never reach a consensus about these. But eh, IMO it's fun to talk and debate about it. I mean I'm pretty sure that's why most of us still hang around here.
Also, ranking classes is fraught with issues and as I said earlier, pointless.



Yet CharOp has 'unofficial' ratings for all the classes. They're just not written in stone anywhere. As an examples:
Controller: WizardInvoker, Druid, Psion, SeekerHunter
Defenders: Fighter, Paladin, Swordmage, Battlemind, Warden, Knight, Cavalier


There are of course specific builds that would destroy these ratings out of hand. But no one should be disagreeing violently with where I've rated what CharOp typically thinks of the specific classes, with the possible exception of Seeker. 
in my mind ranking them makes sense based on one condition: you can build a ranger that ranks gold in everything and you can build a ranger that ranks red in everything, so you can't rank how good a ranger is... but, it is much easier to get a skyblue ranger than it is to get a red ranger... thus, if the goal is to classify how easy it is to get each class to work according to each of their roles and sub-roles, go for it... and more power to you in my book.

I do think that getting more specific with each class will be helpful. If your handbood rates healic clerics the same as melee bcl clerics than it might, indeed, not be very useful. 
It also varies wildly by tier, with a fighter becoming less and less of a great defender and more of a good striker (possibly excellent if able to effectively force mark violations) , and a BM being an average defender at best until 13, at which point with minimal work they become an excellent striker.
Hi Welcome

Rating something for the sake of doing it is not a reason for doing it. Comparing things based on tools that are used to communicate is arbitrary foolishness. As said above, by Erachima, "context" is your biggest problem because there is nothing here that actually contributes to the the optimisation for characters within the game. Creating a thread because this forum is obsessed with denouncing poor design of certain classes/features is fail. Zelink has said it clearly and succintly that this will devolve into subjectivity smashing objectivity over the head with people pretending to opine their own awesomeness.
See, if you guys would put half as much time into writing a few ratings as you're putting now into complaining that this can never work, then it would just work! Cool

As MWaO pointed out, everybody here knows that the wizard is a good controller and the hunter is not; it would be useful to write that out in a central place. The issues that people disagree on are only a small minority.
I kinda agree that this thread is not super-useful, and interestingly enough I think it's gotten less useful over time with all the details added in

The original concept for the thread (by my understanding) was a resource for beginners, who aren't very familiar with D&D and how things work, to get a general sense of which classes are better and how balanced a party is.

Rating controllers based on "Targeting-Capacity" is a totally reasonable metric at first glance, but it has almost zero meaning to someone who is unfamiliar with the game. And even when I know that wizards are good at battlefield control and debilitating effects and targeting, does that mean that they can do all of them at once? That there are builds that are good for each? Metrics like these don't actually help anyone, because the people who're knowledgeable enough to use them 1) don't need to be told, and 2) will argue with you over whether your assessment is correct.

I think you'll have much less headache and create a more useful resource if it's just "Here's roughly how the controllers compare in heroic, here's how they compare in paragon, here's how they compare in epic." And then if there are any really interesting notes about it, you can just write those after the general ranking. Like, "There are 5 types of wizards, and they are all sky blue except for the Bladesinger (which is red), because they use wizard powers. However, relative to each other, the mage and arcanist are much better than the witch and sha'ir" - the sorts of things that any CharOpper understands but beginners aren't aware of.

I mean, it's your guide, so do what you like with it. But I think you're moving away from the original goal.