Guilds at the Dragon's Maze pre-release

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I was unfortunately unable to go to the Return to Ravnica pre-release, but had I gone, I would have played either Selesnya or Azorius.  For those that did go, how did they do? I would like to know before I give my local shop a call and tell them which guild I'm going to be playing at the pre-release.

Also, are the guilds that we choose going to give us our guild champion in our guild pack? The whole idea behind this set it seems is that each guild has someone fight on their behalf, so it only seems fitting, espeically since the guild champions are only rares and not mythics.

Any replies would be greatly appreciated.
I think you don't get the champion anymore, just 1 pack from your guild and 1 of a guild that shares a color with yours.

Rtr pre was fine, but the solo event was terribly long and 90% of the players went Azorius. I am trying to play the 2-heads only from that time on, it's way more funnier to play with someone and decide to combine guilds.

All in all, pick your favorite guild and have fun.
I can't tell you how Selesnya and Azorius did as I too missed the RTR prerelease, but I will say that at a very basic level it seems like picking Rakdos, Orzhov or Boros are going to be the way to go, simply because your guild pack is going to be only in the colors of removal (no blue or green), and your allied pack is going to be at least one removal color, with a 33% chance of having a second removal color.

You can never control the bombs you get in limited as most of them are rares, but getting two boosters in removal colors seems like a solid advantage.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
Azorius is the best guild because you can win games by filibuster.
blah blah metal lyrics
That card is just fun, with tons of flavor!
I played azorius at the prerelease. As I recall, it performed well. But, selesnya was the big winner for us that day.

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Catotheyounger wrote:
Back when I was in high school, I used to write little quotes on the whiteboard of my chemistry class, little, funny things that I'd made up and attributed to an anonymous author. Just tiny things I found amusing. Some time near the end of the year, a substitute teacher came in, read it, and told us a quote she had heard from a 13 year old girl. I don't remember what it was, but the quote sounded deep and philosophical. Then I actually thought about it. I realized that the quote was actually meaningless, but simply couched in the language of philosophy and depth. And that's what your post is. It is meaningless bull**** that you said in such a way as to make it seem sophisticated. But just as a lab coat doesn't make you a scientist, language won't make you a philosopher. Only love of wisdom will. And until then, you will always remind me of a nameless 13 year old girl.
I've been looking around for a bit more info as I've only seen one RTR sealed event, no GTC ones, and didn't get to participate in either prerelease. From what I've read, the toughest two guilds to work with are Izzet and Dimir, as they have cards that lend themselves to different strategies, and some of those strategies are better done by other guilds, so they're 'craftier' decks to build. With that in mind, to give yourself a booster in removal colors and have no chance at allying with either of those two guilds, Orzhov would be a solid choice, as they can't ally with Dimir (same block) and can't ally with Izzet (don't share colors). With a little luck, you'd get the Rakdos alliance and even more removal. And I mean, the other 3 guilds you could get have all proven quite solid, so it seems pretty win win.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
I played a lot of both the RTR and GTC prereleases.  Keep in mind that these formats are drastically different than the DGM format will be.

Here's what I remember:

RTR:
Izzet was unplayable.  You couldn't buy a good pool.  The only 4-0 in the 5 flights from the guild was actually Golgari (opened 5 Golgari bombs in the other packs).  I never played it, but everyone who did immediately wished they hadn't.  One guy in my play group who is consistently a 3-1/4-0 sealed player, played it in flight 3 and went 1-3.  And his pool was decent.  After the actual events, we cracked some of the packs we won to practice the "real" format, and I had an Izzet pool with Jace, the Chemister dude (the guy that taps to draws cards and burns creatures) and a very clear Izzet pool.  If we were brainstorming the perfect Izzet pool, this would've been it.  I went 1-7 against the other pools.

Azorious was really consistent.  No matter what type of pool you opened (aggro, control), the card pool supported it.  I played it 3 times and went 4-0 twice, 3-1 (in a very close grindy match that my opponent barely won).

Rakdos was decent, but you really had to get a "big" Rakdos deck to do well.  The speed was something that surprised me and could easily overwhelm a format where everyone is trying 3+ color decks.

Golgari was very pool dependent.  Sometimes you got an absolutely nuts pool (like I did in the first flight), sometimes you didn't.  You could still usually do well with it as the card pool often allowed you to grind out an advantage.

Selesnya was also very pool dependent, as well as very draw dependent.  If your pool had a ton of token makers, you were set.  If you didn't, you were screwed.  If you drew your populate cards before your token makers, you lost.  If you ever started populating Centaurs, you were going to win.

 I played Azorius 3 times (11-1 total), Selesnya (3-1) and Golgari (4-0).

GTC:
Dimir was very difficult to win with, but it's promo card was insane.  If you could cast it in a game, you won easily.  Cipher was basically worthless.  The best pools either drew heavily on Orzhov removal or went more aggro with the unblockables.  The most sucessful pools splashed white.

Orzhov was insane.  You got all the good removal, your "bad" creatures with extort turned into win cons late, your bombs were usually really good.  A few key cards turned a decent pool into a really powerful one.

Gruul was likewise pretty good.  Sometimes you just had draws where your opponent couldn't win.  However, if your opponent had instant speed removal, you were probably going to lose.

Boros was pretty difficult to win with.  You were easily shut down by a decently sized body and battalion was often difficult to assemble.  If you got a good pool, you were set.

Simic was hit or miss.  You could get an insane deck or unplayable trash.  The evolve mechanic required a lot to go right to work as intended.  If it came together, you were unbeatable.  If not, you couldn't possibly win.

I played Dimir twice (7-1, splashed white once, full on Esper once), Orzhov once (4-0), Gruul once (3-1) and Boros once (2-2).   My Dimir record is misleading.  One pool was insane (I had something like 10 black removal spells and a Mind Grind to finish it), the other pool was above average, but I drew amazingly well while my opponent's bricked repeatedly.

So that's what I remember from the last two pre-releases.  If your goal is to win the thing, I would try to avoid picking a guild that could potentially pair you with Izzet or Dimir.
Here's what I remember:

RTR:
Izzet was unplayable.


I went Izzet and did quite well. But I also had an insane card pool.

Overall, the strongest guild in RTR sealed is Selesnya, second place goes to Golgari. (My only match loss in the prerelease was to a Selesnya deck.) Aggro and control usually don't do well in sealed, you need too good a pool to be consistent (but aggro can work in draft, as evidenced by Rakdos doing great in draft).

GTC's strongest in sealed is probably Gruul. Once again, a decent all-around guild. I can tell you from personal experience that Boros is great in draft, but horribly inconsistent in sealed.

Overall, you want consistency, and a deck that is going to have options both early and late game.

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Thanks for all the info guys. While not the TC, I was certainly keen to get some more anecdotal evidence. I'm feeling more strongly about choosing Orzhov now, if it's considered pretty good from the GTC guilds, and impossible to get an Izzet booster with it, seems to make it a solid choice.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
I think Orzhov is an excellent choice.  It's powerful on it's own, and all the potential pairings (Azorius, Selesnya, Golgari and Rakdos) are at least decent.  Rakdos is the most questionable, but Orzhov provides that pairing a lot of reach.  All the others feed into wanting to grind the opponent out and generating incremental advantages.
Does anyone know if guild-specific rares that WERE promos (and not in the original guildpacks) will be available in the DMZ guildpacks?

Ee.,g Dimir: Consuming Abberation,  Gruul: Rubblehulk, etc.

I guess a similar question:  other rares won't be in the packs either (Enter the Infinite, Ogre Slumlord, Pack Rat, Jace AoT) 
rstnme: "Everything looks good when your opponent passes 4 turns in a row."
There was a list after each pre-release.  The guild packs weren't actually random.  There was a set number of configurations you could receive for each guild.  Since the DGM packs are just the RTR/GTC guild packs, they'll be exactly the same.  I'm sure Google can find you a list of all the configurations.

From what I recall, there will be no mythics except for the guild leaders in the guild packs.  There would be no "non"-guild rares (i.e. they have to have the guild watermark).  Other than that, I don't think there were any restrictions.
This would imply that the promos aren't in the rare pool.   Which seems to hurt Dimir most since CA was probably it's top rare.
rstnme: "Everything looks good when your opponent passes 4 turns in a row."

From what I recall, there will be no mythics except for the guild leaders in the guild packs.  There would be no "non"-guild rares (i.e. they have to have the guild watermark).  Other than that, I don't think there were any restrictions.


You could get Primordials in the Gatecrash packs.  
I couldn't find the Guildcrash guilds, but I did find the potential contents of the RTR guild boosters here: mythicspoiler.com/azoriusguildpack.html

In addition, here's one review of the Dragon's Maze cards from a limited PoV. mtgshops.com/posts/dragon\'s-maze-limite... Personally I usually go with the TCGPlayer ones, but this one was just as good.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
I couldn't find the Guildcrash guilds, but I did find the potential contents of the RTR guild boosters here: mythicspoiler.com/azoriusguildpack.html


The GateCrash ones are there, too. Just poke around, you'll find them.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

I couldn't find the Guildcrash guilds, but I did find the potential contents of the RTR guild boosters here: mythicspoiler.com/azoriusguildpack.html


The GateCrash ones are there, too. Just poke around, you'll find them.


Oh wicked, thanks Escef. I initially just tried changing the Azorius in the link to Dimir, thinking they would've followed the same formatting.

mythicspoiler.com/gtc/orzhov.html for anyone playing at home.

Edit: appears to just be the cards with the guild stamp, not the whole sample of cards available from the booster. Doh! 
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
it is worth noting that both Selesnya and Orzhov will be vastly less powerful this time around. In Orzhov's case they only got acces to 1 non-rare extort card outside of GTC, meaning they have to rely on their GTC booster to get their base going. WB also has less removal than previously, so it seems to rely a LOT on luck this time around.

Same with selesnya, with only 1 rtr booster they are missing out on tokens they can populate in the common and uncommon slots, meaning they are in part cut off from playing to their fullest.

So far, it seems like the guild to play will be gruul and rakdos. Rakdos had some strong removal in rtr and also got powerfull cards in gtc, and the gruul rare is almost certain to be a bomb, while again getting good support from gtc. Golgari will also have fewer scavenge creatures, but it cares less about them, it has access to solid creatures in it's colours and probably one of the best removals of the set in putrefy.

Dimir seems hit and miss. Opening a lazav or stolen identity will be powerful, opening an undercity plague will make you hate life, and it's pool can easily go wrong. Boros is also fairly decent and has ok gtc cards to support it, while simic is in troubble due to fewer evolve creatures in the common/uncommon and likely a harder time building its creature curve than we saw in gtc.
Does Orzhov sealed need extort though? While I only playtested the sealed (didn't go to the prerelease), I found that while extort helped chip a little life away, like usual my creatures and removal did the brunt of the work. I could definitely justify to myself picking Rakdos or Boros (which were my other two initial thoughts), but I live in fear of that 1/4 chance of getting Izzet or Dimir. >.<
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
I couldn't find the Guildcrash guilds, but I did find the potential contents of the RTR guild boosters here: mythicspoiler.com/azoriusguildpack.html


The GateCrash ones are there, too. Just poke around, you'll find them.


Oh wicked, thanks Escef. I initially just tried changing the Azorius in the link to Dimir, thinking they would've followed the same formatting.

mythicspoiler.com/gtc/orzhov.html for anyone playing at home.

Edit: appears to just be the cards with the guild stamp, not the whole sample of cards available from the booster. Doh! 




Both of those links were from before the respective prereleases, when the exact rares in the packs were not known.

Their dgm guildpack viewer has it right - the actual 7 rares-and-one-mythic that are potentially in each guildpack.

mythicspoiler.com/dgm/guildpacks.html
 
Both of those links were from before the respective prereleases, when the exact rares in the packs were not known.

Their dgm guildpack viewer has it right - the actual 7 rares-and-one-mythic that are potentially in each guildpack.

mythicspoiler.com/dgm/guildpacks.html


Thanks for that; appreciate it. I've still got to go through the commons and uncommons of each just to make sure I'm not going into a guild that looks likely to have a lot of dead draws in it... but honestly, having a look at the rares, Azorius and Golgari seems pretty reliable. All 8 of their rares are not only playable, but pretty good.

A few other guilds also had great stocks of rares - Boros (Spark Trooper is a great creature, but card disadvantage, so you need to be the aggressor), Gruul (Signal the Clans is a fine card, but really just tutors for one of your best 3 creatures - would rather just crack the best creature and draw that), Orzhov (Blind Obedience is certainly good, but it's pretty much just an extortion permanent that might let you get an extra bit of attack in here and there), with the other guilds having at least 2 rares that I felt were either underwhelming or situational (for example, Growing Ranks might prove to be a dead card thanks to 4 DGM boosters - if I'm not mistaken, there are only 10 cards in the set which can potentially make a token, with only 1 of those at the common slot).

Now to look through the commons/uncommons of Azorius and blue/white in DGM and see if I'm happy with it...
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
Golgari is awesome at the rare slot.  The rare slot is what kills me for Simic.  I love all of Simic's little evolvers, but I'd just about break down and cry if I pulled a Biovisionary as my Simic guild pack rare.

Biovisionary and Unexpected Results were the 2/8 I found to be iffy in the Simic rare pool - unless you get very lucky and get a Progenitor Mimic in your DGM cards, it's just a 2/3 for 3. With Unexpected Results, it essentially just tutors a random card in your deck, and if it's one of the less useful half (land) you get another crack at it. So it's more or less 50% chance at card advantage, until it hits something that may or may not be useful (I remember using it against a friend in some packwars, and landed on Guildscorn Ward while they had the only creature out, which was quite disappointing. Ironically, later I wished I had actually cast it as they ended up plopping a Primal Visitation on said creature ).

Golgari's rare pool is just nuts, and you'll probably splash for whatever you get even if you don't run heavy GB. Arguably the worst card is Jarad's Orders - and that's hardly a bad card; you get your best creature from it and if you want, you can throw away a scavenger for some almost-card advantage. Well, actually, Grave Betrayal is probably the worst - definitely an awesome effect, but you have to wait til 7 mana and then find ways to kill your opponent's creatures in order to snag em.

The worst rare Azorius has would probably be either Righteous Authority - only because it's an aura, but if your creature lives for at least a turn you get card neutrality even if it later dies, and any more and it's all upside - or Azor's Elocutors, simply because unless you can clog up combat enough to stay damageless for 5 turn cycles, it's just a 3/5. Though that much toughness makes it a solid blocker in limited.

I'm really quite torn myself. A few decent choices have opened up after looking at the rares. Considering uncommons and commons too, Boros and Orzhov are still looking quite snazzy. Though Boros probably has a slight edge when it comes to the rares. But both guilds have some very nice common and uncommon removal. All 3 colors come pretty close in the removal stakes in the DGM card pools, though if I went Boros and got 1 or 2 Warleader's Helix I'd probably cream myself (or splash for them if I went Orzhov).

Having said all this, to close out my longwinded post, a small part of me wants to go Golgari just to honor Putrefy, which is arguably the best removal spell in the block in terms of cost, effect and rarity.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
Personally I am wanting to play Orzhov and I am thinking of Golgari as my secret guild as I really like the idea of putting myself into 2/3 colors of having some decent amount of removal and I just like the green creatures the most in DGM and would say they are only second besteted by White and Black retrospectively. Although a friend of mine is trying to convince me to go Esper as he says "you need some flyers dude", would you agree that Esper would be better than WBG Junk?
Are you actually getting to choose your secret ally at yours? I thought it was randomly chosen; otherwise the choice would be far easier. If you did manage to get Golgari as your allied guild, you'd be in luck - their rare pool is entirely playable and good, and they have access to some other strong cards in their guild booster. All guilds have access to some decent stuff in DGM, but if you're already in BG you'll be able to easily accomodate arguably the best removal spell in the format - Putrefy.

Cheap, effective fliers has often been a limited archetype, and there's not much reason to think it won't happen again - and there are a lot of potential fliers in esper (off the top of my head, Kingpin's Pet, Basilica Screecher, Vassal Soul, Skymark Roc, Assault Griffin and pleeenty more). I wouldn't pick Azorius as my main guild though - while all their rares are playable, your more-than-one-turn-detain removal options would be limited to Skymark Roc, Arrest and Paralyzing Grasp. Orzhov has much better removal, with most of it at the common slot, and the worst guilds you could get paired with would be Selesnya and Rakdos - and that's hardly a bad prospect. Having said that, 3 of the Azorius rares are seriously nice removal cards (Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict and Martial Law), so that's one angle to consider.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
Are you actually getting to choose your secret ally at yours? I thought it was randomly chosen; otherwise the choice would be far easier.

It's random. You won't know what your ally is until you open your prerelease pack.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Are you actually getting to choose your secret ally at yours? I thought it was randomly chosen; otherwise the choice would be far easier.

It's random. You won't know what your ally is until you open your prerelease pack.



Unless, you... turn it over. ;)

~ Tim 
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)