Are Ardents any good/fun to play?

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Are ardents considered good leaders? What are they known for being good at, if anything?
The most notable thing about them is that Forward-Thinking Cut can be looped to attack a bunch. But yes, they work. They're very spammy though, as with all psionics.
They have some awesome dailies.
I like ardents a lot more than most of CharOp does. But that's pretty fair, given that I like them because they're neat, not because they're particularly powerful.

They have one of the best at-will THP generators in the game, a very decent at-will attack granting power (pretty on-par with the bard, warlord, and shaman options), and at-will save granting.  And that's all at level one.

By level 7, they can also pick up a fantastic defense penalty granter and either of two charge-granting powers.

The real issue is that, as with psions and battleminds, they can't have everything on the same build, since your encounter powers ARE your at-wills (and you can only have three of them) and since some of the choices are so clearly superior to the others, there's not a lot of build diversity.  And the paragon and epic tier powers are mostly garbage compared to the level 1-7 powers, so it's entirely possible to play an ardent 1-30 with all level 1 powers. Which gets old. 

If there's any progression in that at all, it's that a level 1 ardent is going to be spamming unaugmented at-wills, while a level 15 ardent is going to be using the same powers augmented with 2 power points. Some of the effects of some of the powers augmented are really cool and/or really powerful, but you'll still be keeping the same powers for pretty much ever.

That and they're 100% entirely a melee class, in chain, that doesn't want strength, int, or dex at all, so will never advance past mediocre AC.

Feat-support-wise, they're pretty okay, adding their primary stat to their heal, granting all kinds of nifty bonuses when they second wind (better for dwarves or muls!), a handful of bonuses when they get bloodied. 

Their utilities are much worse than warlord or bard utilities, but not really any worse than the cleric's. Their dailies are pretty neat for the most part, but many of them expect the Ardent to have a passable MBA, or do weird things that aren't very leadery, like pull everything in a burst 5 adjacent. 

And most of their paragon paths are pretty awful. There's three that are....acceptable....but none that are stellar. 
Talaric Strategist and the Ardent-themed MIND GENERAL are pretty decent.
5th level daily: Invitation to defeat: Pull all enemies in a burst 5 and weaken them (save ends) and for rest of encounter enemies are weakened whilst adjacent to you. Follow up by AP for a 2 point augmented Demoralising Strike taking off 1W+mod and 1+con mod defences until EoNT. In heroic? Oh yes.

Focusing strike AW to grant saves

Dark-Blue leader ranking all the way. Great class.

- Edited to what I'd meant to write, was early late when written.
D&D is like religion. People focus far too much on the differences rather than the similarities.

Sky-Blue leader ranking all the way. Great class.



haha, no.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)


Sky-Blue leader ranking all the way. Great class.



haha, no.

That's not constructive critiscism and doesn't assist the OP either.

I said what I'd said because I'd played one through Gardmore Abbey, found they had good powers, won battles for the party and were great fun.

My 1st level Daily had a particuar boss creature effectively beat itself to death during that adventure.

They weren't the best leader by any means (I decided to play one being tired of seeing almost nothing but Clerics and Warlords as leaders) but they have good powers and can be effective and fun. I also didn't see any bad powers when levelling, although I only played one in heroic. So I stand by what I said. Now whilst it might help if the OP had stated the expected level range for their character to play through, anything else is just semantics.
D&D is like religion. People focus far too much on the differences rather than the similarities.
Your personal experience is not an objective ranking, especially not relative to other leaders. Ardents are black. Which makes them perfectly playable, so long as you don't mind the fact that you'll be using essentially the same powers your whole career 1-30.
and furthermore to what Alcestis said, the reason I answered your personal opinion with that remark is because frankly we don't rank leaders by a daily nova that you may or may not pull off.  We use a lot more criteria to determine rankings.  Anecdotal evidence is also not considered.  If it was, we wouldn't get anything done.

EDIT:  As an added note, no offense, but if you didn't see ANY bad powers as you were leveling up, you just don't understand game mechanics, what is desirable and what is not for a leader, etc..  to make judgements as to what amounts to a good leader or not.  This isn't personal, it's just an observation based on what you posted.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

That's not constructive critiscism and doesn't assist the OP either.



one can only hope people can remember such things without being constantly reminded; people on this forum seem to be more fond of arguing with responses than contributing to help the OP

as for the anecdotal evidence, half of the OP question was whether or not it was fun, and at least he gave a more useful answer to that half of the question

I haven't played an Ardent but the flavor looks like a lot of fun, and the guides suggest they are at least competent, its a class I've wanted to try but haven't had an opportunity
I keep thinking they might be fun, and then I look at the powers again, and decide I'd want to do something else. 
there is a whole lot of spamming.  a whole lot. I don't think I ever got rid of Demoralizing, energizing and focusing strike, though we only got to low paragon.  Demoralizing strike is a really good power, though- spamming the crap out of it on augment two after you have any amount of Power points is pretty much guaranteeing hits on any enemy you hit.

but the downsides sort of over powered my experience- your AC is pretty bad (which is less of a big deal as time goes on, but still) for how melee focused you are, only really using one or two powers in a fight gets desperately old.  The focus on Opportunity attacks for the mantles is just odd (I tended to forget that was there a lot), and one of your built in powers kickin in when you're bloodied makes it hard to time when you want (and some of the benefits are fairly negligible after much time- ardent outrage in particular).
Since two of the features are related to opportunity attacks and your character getting bloodied, they're a bit harder to use when you want.

if you want to play around with one, I'd make a dragonborn, then, when you get bored, just shift it into a bravura warlord.
You never took Mindlink or FTC? Something went wrong.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
You never took Mindlink or FTC? Something went wrong.

Everyone who showed up on the regular had crap melee basic attacks.  it happens.

To people complaining about AC: Either go CON secondary and buy the feats, or (preferred option) take Divine Healer.
I took Scale and light shield feats for good AC, but that is a feat tax admitedly. Went half-elf with Virtuous Strike for a MBA.

Being able to grant saves AW is pretty good for a leader, that's why I said OOOPs - was early late here. I MEANT - DARK BLUE, LOL.
D&D is like religion. People focus far too much on the differences rather than the similarities.
If you want to circumvent the AC feat tax, either be a Hobgoblin so you get Heavy Shield Prof for only 1 feat, or hybrid with a Battlemind for the hybrid armor prof. You lose a heal, but not much else.

Alternatively, get a Greatspear and always stay behind the defender.
They are good.  Generally not as great as the warlords, but overall they are perfectly playable.

They also have a few choice cheeze options, if you want to break the game and such.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I like Ardents, but I personally can't stand any power point class for more than a few levels. They just don't feel like they evolve like other classes do, especially with most of the best powers available early on.

I like them as hybrids with a non-PP class, because they do have some fun powers. Invitation to Defeat is even better on an Ardent|Paladin. It's not ever going to overturn the best defender|leader combos out there, but it's functional and pretty fun to play.
Ardents are actually the best of them!

Psions spam Dishearen
BMs spam BB

At least Ardens appreciate more than one power  
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Ardents are actually the best of them!

Psions spam Dishearen
BMs spam BB

At least Ardens appreciate more than one power  

Psions also use forced opportunity
Battleminds also use lighting rush.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

BMs use LR because they don't have a legitimate mark punishment.

And FO really swingy. And something you don't spam. 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!

Psions spam Dishearen

Psions also use forced opportunity


Augment 1 Thunder Tether is pretty awesome too.

Psions spam Dishearen

Psions also use forced opportunity


Augment 1 Thunder Tether is pretty awesome too.



Augment 2 Kinetic Burst through a Dreamwalker is a lot of fun. Essentially friendly Area 2 at-will that pushes Wis mod in a slide kind of way and boosts defenses. Good for setting up Thunder Tether 1 to keep enemies locked up in a kill zone.