RedEye's Rogue

I'm not a big fan of how the Rogues are turning out. They are clearly a DPS class. They lose a lot of their theme the way things are. Of note are sneak attack and backstab. Sneak attack makes something harder to hit  and does more damage, while backstab gives you advantage back again that sneak attack removes. So basically, surprising someone gives me no chance to hit, but I'm gambling for damage, while aiming for a vital point makes it somehow easier to hit something instead of a general attack. Doesn't make sense. On top of that, sneak attack is only a damage bonus. It should also help rogues in grapple attacks to take creatures hostage etc. So here is my suggested changes:

1) Sneak Attack - When attacking a creature that is not aware you are there, you may add your sneak ability die for hit and damage. If you have Skill focus, add a second die. If you have skill mastery, you have advantage on your damage roll (both skill die and weapon damage)
2) Backstab - functions exactly as current sneak attack. You gain disadvantage to increase damage.  Available to all rogues
3) Isolated strike - same
4) Opportune strike - When you make a melee attack, you can give yourself advantage on that roll if there is at least one creature hostile to your target iwthin 5 feet (same as old backstab)

Alternately, We can also take a page from the vanilla fighter and have sneak attack, and all their abilities use expertise dice:
1) Sneak Attack - Expend 1 expertise die. Use the roll to add to hit and damage
2) Backstab - Gain disadvantage, roll as many expertise die as you wish and add your roll to damage
3) Assassin Mastery - You may spend an expertise die on a bluff or sneak roll
4) Charm Mastery - You may spend expertise die on any bluff or persuade roll
5) Thief - You may spend your expertise die on any conceal an object or sneak roll
6) Lore Mastery - You may spend your expertise die on any historical lore or magical lore
7) Trickster - You may spend expertise die on bluff or conceal object rolls
8) Opportune strike - When you make a melee attack, you can give yourself advantage on that roll if there is at least one creature hostile to your target iwthin 5 feet (same as old backstab)
9) Isolated strike - same
Sneak attack, backstab, isolated strike is starting to look broken as they can stack on ANY attack action. My min/max brother is now combining it with charge. That now allows him to move his normal move his normal move, then charge and get benefits of sneak attack and backstab/isolated strike. because of the wording of the skills and because sneak attack/backstab/isolated strike isn't attack actions.

He's also probably going to combine it with covert strike to go back into hiding at the end of every turn. This is ridiculous, especially with the dice increasing every other level on steak attack. This is SERIOUSLY broken.
I can tell by your first paragraph alone that you and I not only disagree on what a Rogue is, but even on what a Role Playing Game is.

I say this not to be rude, but to let you know that if this thread isn't getting the replies you were expecting, it may be because a lot of us don't believe that 'DPS Class' is, or should be, a thing.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/7.jpg)

I can tell by your first paragraph alone that you and I not only disagree on what a Rogue is, but even on what a Role Playing Game is.

I say this not to be rude, but to let you know that if this thread isn't getting the replies you were expecting, it may be because a lot of us don't believe that 'DPS Class' is, or should be, a thing.



My concerns are to keep the rogue more of an RP class than a DPS class. Rogue, as it stands is easy to min/max. Rogue with charge can apply Backstab and Sneak Attack and covert strike and Deadly strike every round. That amounts to a Rogue that can move 60 feet every round, without attack penalty, dealing double weapon damage plus 5d6 (level 9) damage plus go back into stealth. Even at lower levels, you still have a rogue that is zipping through the battlefield dealing massive damage so long as he makes his sneak roll. I don't know what kind of RP rogues you have, but I don't imagine them running around like that while hidden

The point here is not to help rogues increase their damage, but to keep them in line with their theme.

Then please accept my apologies for misreading your intention. I took "They are clearly a DPS class" to mean "They clearly should be a DPS class" and every word thereafter was tainted by that assumption.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/7.jpg)

Sign In to post comments