[DGM-ICD] Notion Thief

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Notion Thie:U::B:
Creature - Human Rogue
Flash
If an opponent would draw a card except the first he or she draws in each of his or her draw steps, intead that players skips that draw and you draw a card. 

source: twitter.com/mtgworth 
I play for fun
Nuts!  Also, source?  Just to be sure.

Oh my Chains of Mepistopheles instinct just kicked in. 
a mechanic that actualy shows the dimir stealing your thoughts! this shoulda been on the "mind drinker" but whatever...

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

So, Whispering Madness, was it?
Edit: Or just respond to a Relevation, if that's more your style.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

Aww too slow. That's what you get for formating and typing the text.
Worth Wollpert spoiled it on his Twitteracc.
The perfect response to a Sphinx's Revelation.

Too bad it only will be played in the same deck to counter Sphinx's Revelation in the mirror in Esper Control -- and as a sideboard in...
Eh...

Whatever standard viable decks that runs black and blue that are NOT esper control. 
Aww too slow. That's what you get for formating and typing the text.
Worth Wollpert spoiled it on his Twitteracc.


I updated my notebook touchpad driver and it got all screwed up....
I play for fun
This will be a fun response to jaces 0 or to brainstorm in legacy.

Or just cast this eot and play burning inquiry or something

Easily 10+ dollar rare 
First card I thought of when seeing this was Jace Beleren and Commander. I honestly think to small at times. This is likely going to be a money rare.
Wouldn't two of these on opposite sides of the battlefield cause an unbreakable infinite loop that causes the game to end in a draw?
Wouldn't two of these on opposite sides of the battlefield cause an unbreakable infinite loop that causes the game to end in a draw?



Its other then the first draw during the draw step, so no.


Also I like it. Bug is starting to become a thing... I think. 
BUG control.
Homage to chains no doubt and a lot less confusing, with the added benefit it can't be turned against you. At first i was going to say but who the hell would pay more then 2 for a flashing a creature, took a couple seconds then was like ahh. Good card but the p/t is pretty bad so its narrow in combat, also we don't have much upkeep draw cards like arena, so its pretty much only revelation and think twice which are essentially one time draws. This card will be good if more draw cards open up for more then just blue.
btw does each guild only get 1 guild champion, 1 random rare, and one mythic?
btw does each guild only get 1 guild champion, 1 random rare, and one mythic?



I'd say it is an unconfirmed cycle? You know since we all love cycles so much. I'm still waiting for the other 5 can't be countered spells ><


EDIT: that's a joke people. 
Wouldn't two of these on opposite sides of the battlefield cause an unbreakable infinite loop that causes the game to end in a draw?

The ability is a replacement effect. The same replacement effect can't affect the same event more than once, even if the event was modified by another replacement effect.



So if both players have a Notion Thief each, and Player A would draw a card (not the draw step's first card), instead Player B's Notion Thief makes Player A skips this draw and Player B would draw a card, but instead Player A's Notion Thief makes Player B skip this draw and Player A would draw a card. As all relevant replacement effects already applied once, nothing else changes this and Player A draws his card.


In short: two Notion Thieves simply cancel themselves out, so the player draw their own cards like normal.




EDIT:


Notion Thief of Player B replaces that draw with a draw for Player B
Notion Thief for Player A replaces the card draw from Player B's Notion Thief
Notion Thief for Player B replaces the card draw from Player A's Notion Thief


Nope, it ends on the second line. Notion Thief of Player B already applied on this event so it can't apply again.

[<o>]
Wouldn't two of these on opposite sides of the battlefield cause an unbreakable infinite loop that causes the game to end in a draw?



Its other then the first draw during the draw step, so no.


Also I like it. Bug is starting to become a thing... I think. 



I'm talking about other than first draw of draw step. With two of these out, if Player A tries to draw a card via a cantrip....

Notion Thief of Player B replaces that draw with a draw for Player B
Notion Thief for Player A replaces the card draw from Player B's Notion Thief
Notion Thief for Player B replaces the card draw from Player A's Notion Thief
Etc, etc, etc, infinite number of times.

Edit: But they are replacing different draws.
Edit: But they are replacing different draws.

No, they are replacing the same draw.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Edit: But they are replacing different draws.

No, they are replacing the same draw.



"If there's a Duck Season sign on a tree, put a Rabbit Season sign instead"


The signs changed? Yes. But it's still the same tree!


In Magic, Daffy would just change the sign once, then Bugs changes it back, and it's over. (Then they walk away until they find another tree with a sign to be replaced...)

[<o>]
Funny with red. Reforge the Soul for each player discards hand, draw 14.
Windfall would do something similar in blue but is banned almost anywhere anyway.
But also nice with symetrical draw - Kami of the Crescent Moon, Howling Mine, Teferi's Puzzle Box, Anvil of Bogardan...
Yep, I found the new rare that will go in my U/B control deck.  Revelation is all over the place in my local meta.
I think that with two out, the person who plays the draw-a-card ability will still draw his cards, but he will get to do so because his notion thief replaced the draw replacement by the other one.

As well, the point Azure is making is that a replacement effect cannot replace the same event twice, which is why Chains of Mephistopheles does not go infinite with two of them out:

614.5. A replacement effect doesn’t invoke itself repeatedly; it gets only one opportunity to affect an event or any modified events that may replace it.



Example:

A player controls two permanents, each with an ability that reads “If a creature you control would deal damage to a creature or player, it deals double that damage to that creature or player instead.” A creature that normally deals 2 damage will deal 8 damage— not just 4, and not an infinite amount.


Somebody earlier mentioned that UB decks outside of Esper Control would be able to use this, so I thought I would mention an obvious application in the current incarnation of Heartless Summoning, something I've developed from Travis Woo's insanely brilliant Black Tide deck.

Heartless Summoning +Havengul Lich = repeatable notion theft, yay x/1 toughness. It's a fun trick to add to the stable of recurrable etb effects in the deck along with Disciple of Bolas, Snapcaster Mage, Soulsworn Spirit, Slum Reaper, Clones, etc.
I was only thinking yesterday- or was it today?- that they really ought to come up with a neat name for the free draw you get during your draw step. Let's try this out, shall we?

If an opponent would draw a card except for his or her free draw, instead that players skips that draw and you draw a card.

Hmm... 
Nuts!  Also, source?  Just to be sure.

Oh my Chains of Mepistopheles instinct just kicked in. 



Thats the first card that came to mind when I read this thing

                                                                                                                                                                                        <----- Loser.

vulnerable, but very cute
the Flash makes it very tasty

fun with Teferi :D
proud member of the 2011 community team
Man, that's confusing wording. How about- "Any time an opponent would draw a card other than the first one of their draw phase, you draw a card instead."

It turns Sign in Blood into "opponent pays two life, you draw two cards." Also shuts down their Griselbrand nicely.

And, hilariously, you can deck yourself with this. Imagine playing this, and your opponent plays Enter the Infinite... and has a larger library than you do.
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
So if someone has this out, and I have out a Consecrated Sphinx can I force them to draw until they have no more cards?  Seems like it would be fun with Donate.
yesssssssssssss

finally a strong dimir card in dgm

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Wouldn't two of these on opposite sides of the battlefield cause an unbreakable infinite loop that causes the game to end in a draw?



no, because player 1 plays it in response to player 2 drawing 2nd card. Player 2 responds to the effect of player 1 drawing a card and player 2 draws instead. There is no check for the 2nd time that would cause a loop

So if someone has this out, and I have out a Consecrated Sphinx can I force them to draw until they have no more cards?  Seems like it would be fun with Donate.



LOL at that.  EDH shenigans FTW. 

Lol bloodgift demon

be nice if it had hexproof.  because sign in blood toil and trouble etc. combos are all around for him, but he's too easily removed to build for those.
Consecrated Sphinx is a may effect so they don't have to draw
Will there be an alt art version with him kicking Plagiarize in the junk?

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Consecrated Sphinx is a may effect so they don't have to draw



The scenario he was talking about, he controlled the Sphinx and his opponent controlled Notion Thief.  As the controller of the Sphinx he indeed may choose not to draw - but he does choose to.  The Notion Thief then replaces that with a draw of his own that is (if the text in this spoiler is accurate) not optional.  Which would in turn give the Sphinx another optional draw.  Which he'd accept.

There's no point at which the Thief-controling opponent has a decision to make.
But if you donate the Notion Thief, and control the Sphinx, then you choose to draw every time, forcing the thief's replacement effect to trigger, causing Sphinx to trigger again. The thief does not say "may" and you can deck your opponent. Unfortunately, the thief is not in Zedruu colors.
Favorite set: Arabian Nights Favorite planeswalker: Taysir, the One Made of Five Favorite book cycle: Ice Age Favorite creature type(s): Elephant (W), Minotaur (R), Shade (B), Spider (G), Cephalid (U) Myr (Artifact) Pauper: Monoblack Control Modern: Zombie Tribal; Unyaro Stax Cube: The Moons of Mirrodin
Consecrated Sphinx is a may effect so they don't have to draw

Yes, but if you have the Sphinx and they have the Notion Thief, it's not their choice, it's yours.

You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
But if they do, the player with Notion Thief has to draw instead. This creates a manual trigger loop where Player A (with Consecrated Sphinx) gets ready to draw a card, then Player B (with Notion Thief) replaces Player A's card draw with their own. Because Player A's opponent just drew a card, Consecrated Sphinx kicks in and they choose to draw two cards, forcing Player B to replace both events with their own card draw. And the process continues until Player B is out of cards.

In other words, Consecrated Sphinx is Notion Thief's worst nightmare...unless the Thief has Laboratory Maniac on his side.

Consecrated Sphinx is a may effect so they don't have to draw



Wouldn't it be:

you choose the may (why yes, I will attempt to draw 2)
then the draw itself gets replaced
and since they drew 2 cards then 2 more triggers go on the stack
you choose to draw
then the draw gets replaced

etc.?

I don't think it replaces who controls the Sphinx's trigger, it just replaces who gets to draw after the Sphinx's controller decides on if they want to draw.
If player A plays Enter the Infinite, player B responds with playing this guy; how many cards does player B draw? Does he draw cards equal to number of cards in player A's library or in player B's library?
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