Which way to go for Barbarians

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I'm going to play a Barbarian for an epic-adventure that will last a couple of sessions, as well as in a game that will start at heroic and hopefully get to that stage eventually and while I have played one before, it's been a while and the level of optimisation on the table will be fairly high, so I'd like to get some general information on what the "modern theory" on Barbarians is. 

- How much effort should be put into optimising around charging?
- How do I end up with a tolerable Will defense? I'd rather not be the guy who spends more than half of every combat dominated.
- Another issue for me is power selection. Especially before the second half of paragon, there apparently aren't many/any good encounter/daily powers. Is hybriding for something like Figher or Ranger worth it? 
- As for race/weapon, the way to go looks like either being a real Genasi or getting access to Shocking Flame via Reincarnate Champion and killing things with a Firewind Blade?

Thanks in advance 
Multiattacks. Multiattacks.

Also, if possible, Hybrid. 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Multiattacks. Multiattacks.

Also, if possible, Hybrid. 



Any recommendations except your Librarian which I was just reminded off by your signature?
Hybrid Fighter I like, Warden is also solid.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!

Or Rogue or Ranger, for Whirlers. But Fighter seems best.


For Epic, you should start with WIS or CHA 13, so you get 15 at 21 and qualify for Superior Will. Take Epic Will on top of that and your Will Defense will be good enough.

Hybrid Cleric is good for AC and it lets you have a good will defense as well. Reflex suffers a little but it's usually just damage. Cleric also lets you equip a Symbol of Victory.

Sohei Theme is my favorite for Barbarian. Minor Action attack, +1 saves vs dominate and E6 save vs dominate/stun. Add in superior will and you have a very strong defense agains the DM messing with your actions. If your DM dominates alot then Both Barb and Sohei have a U10 that kills dominates once per day. 

For Race I like Human with Adroit Explorer for 2 storm of blades/encounter and Reincarnate champ to add in the Shenanegasi shocking flame ect. Multiclass martial for striking Resurgence and get Storm/Hurricane of blades an extra time when you crit. DR20 after you nova is also nice to have.
Yeah, all these works basically
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I've been liking Hybrid Warlord of all classes to hybrid Barb to lately.  Has Draw their Eyes for a Move Action damage buff along with heals and turbo-charged encounter and daily powers all through paragon, which admittedly compete for Storm of Blades at 13, but it's a good problem to have.

As far as Race, I like Dragonborn alot for the feats Spirits of the Primal Dragons (along with bloodied optimization) and Inspiring Breath.  Seems to really lay on the damage.
Is just Barb without hybrid also viable? How about Half-Orc . In the Handbook it's recommended and also the racial PP seems to be very good. Has this been changed? The more I read in this forum, the more I'm getting confused.
Frostcheese is still good or? 
Perfectly viable. Especially in paragon - stormsoul genasi with shocking flame. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Is just Barb without hybrid also viable? How about Half-Orc . In the Handbook it's recommended and also the racial PP seems to be very good. Has this been changed? The more I read in this forum, the more I'm getting confused.
Frostcheese is still good or? 

One shift regarding Frostcheese is that Wintertouched often isn't worth it anymore, since there are less conditional/easier ways of getting CA, such as Cunning Stalker.
Straight Barbarians are just fine, hybriding gives them more kick or more options, but they're still good strikers. You just have to accept that their strength lies in multiattacks and rages are crap (saved for a couple exceptions).
Frostcheese is fine, Barbarians also have a short way to it by taking Winter Fury as PP, which opens up more options for your weapon and is easier to combine for multi-elements.
Hybrids as mentioned, it also depends on your aim and your tastes. Hybrid Clerics for example do extremely well for Thaneborns and off-leading.
Should a Str/Con Barbarian/Battlemind with lightning rush/forceful reversal worth hybriding?
Should a Str/Con Barbarian/Battlemind with lightning rush/forceful reversal worth hybriding?


No.
Sapphire - Swormage Dragon Guardian - Dont touch my allies build. Swordmage / Sigil Carver / Draconic incarnation The Holy Slayer - A Striker - Defender Fighter | Cleric / Barbarian - Paragon of Victory WEREBEAR BATTLEMIND: You wont go where you want. - A Battlemind (Druid) / Unbound Nomad / Topaz Crusader
Is that "No" to the english of what was said, or the build itself? Oh wait they're both no
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I'm partial to Stormsoul Genasi Barbarian|Cleric w/ Thaneborn as Hybrid Talent, but that's a bit more leadery. Still, it helps avoid being dominate bait and gets the weapon augments and Mighty Hew for an off-turn attack. Shatterbone Strike becomes a nice set up for a multi-attack at 13 when you have a CHA mod dropping the enemy AC by three or four points. 
The primary thing that makes Frostcheese not worth it at high levels/high op is that the delay on the application relative to your other ways of getting elemental damage becomes an annoyance.



I've seen you say this before, and I'm sort of curious what you feel is better.  Echoes of Thunder gives less damage (and only affects rolls), not everyone's a Genasi (blaster), and not every party has a Morninglord.  Which element is actually doing better things than cold?
Firewind Blade, presumably.
Gloves of Ice is 2/4 damage, though gloves is a pretty competitive slot. The rest is basically a wash in terms of what it adds (any elemental conversion gets Shards, for instance).

So it comes down to +5 from Vuln for every attack after the first vs whatever options are available to the other elements. Firewind Blade pings can certainly exceed that by a considerable margin. So can other things. It doesn't mean Frost isn't strong, it just means it isn't top of the pile anymore. Plus it is hard to get Cold and another damage type on all your attacks, whereas you can get other combinations of damage more easily, meaning you get access to both optimization routes.
Genasi is just good if I optimize it to do lightning damage or?

Which race you would recommend other than half-orc? 
Optimized it is hard not to go Genasi Stormsoul. Past that any strength race is viable but once you hit epic it will be hard not to return to Genasi through the Reincarnate Champion ED. Personally I prefer Human but I havent seen the same potential reached as Genasi pre epic. 
Okay, I will try to build a Genasi Barb then. Or human... Crap, don't know what to do.

How would you rate human, half-orc and genasi to each other? Pre Epic (don't think will get there).

Maybe that's is a dumb question but where is the biggest difference between a barbarian and a melee ranger? In the playstyle I mean.
Genasi is just good if I optimize it to do lightning damage or?

Which race you would recommend other than half-orc?

Genasi can get easy access to lightning or fire extra damage at paragon, which means you can easily exploit two elements, three at epic. Warforged, Half-Orc, Dragonborn and Longtooth Shifter are very good choices too, as are Humans with the Adoit Explorer PP.


Most optimization will only trigger in Paragon, but the Stormsoul Genasi's Encounter Power will put him on top of the fray even in Heroic.

Half-Orcs have two feats to get them +2 attack/+5 damage until EONT when first bloodied, which helps build a solid nova from L11. Not quite a Genasi, and I fail to see the strength of the Human in heroic (is it the extra feat or something else I miss?), but still good enough.
Extra feat, extra hit per encounter thanks to Heroic Effort.



+1 to 2 NADs and equalling the third NAD of a 2 stat race doesn't suck. Humans also get a great paragon path in Adriot Explorer.
Extra feat, extra hit per encounter thanks to Heroic Effort.



+1 to 2 NADs and equalling the third NAD of a 2 stat race doesn't suck. Humans also get a great paragon path in Adriot Explorer.


Not hating on Human as a good choice, but many races get a +1 NAD. Genasi are +1 Fort (racial) +1 Fort (due to Str/Con) +1 Ref (Due to Int) so human is only +1 net in that regard.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Less great for Barbarians, since its real bonus isn't going to be seen until epic.



I like it pre epic also bacause of the DR10 after I nova helps save my ass and the action point means an extra nova per day. I often play with days lasting 6 - 9 combat encounters. If your group generally gets extended rests after 3 or fewer encounters the extra action point is less valuable. 
Less great for Barbarians, since its real bonus isn't going to be seen until epic.



You can still pick up Thundering Howl twice with it. And if you're a Barbarian|Fighter, that means you can pick up Rain of Blows twice, Thundering Howl once(or Trip Up or CaGi), and Storm of Blades once by 13th. Not a bad set of multi-attacks...
Less great for Barbarians, since its real bonus isn't going to be seen until epic.



You can still pick up Thundering Howl twice with it. And if you're a Barbarian|Fighter, that means you can pick up Rain of Blows twice, Thundering Howl once(or Trip Up or CaGi), and Storm of Blades once by 13th. Not a bad set of multi-attacks...



How would that work exactly to achieve that kind of power recycling ?  I'm just trying to understand how you pull that off at 13.

"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

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Adroit Explorer 
that's all there is to it ?  I thought you would need some other pieces to make it work.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

a 3, a 7, a 13, and PP11 for another 3
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
that's all there is to it ?  I thought you would need some other pieces to make it work.



I recommend a weapon too.
very funny guys, ty ^^
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

that's all there is to it ?  I thought you would need some other pieces to make it work.



Yup. Adroit Explorer is a really nice paragon path. MC into Avenger for Oath of Enmity, do Storm of Blades(13) and Rain of Blows(3), then next round do Rain of Blows again if it somehow survives. And still have Thundering Howl(taken at 7) for round 3.
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