Rogues and Barberians in heroic

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Hi , im in a campain with a rogue and im trying to workout if his damage is really good and mine is really bad or barberians are just week in the striker department.We are both lv8.

im a razorclaw shifter , Thaneborn barberian with a fullblade. i know the race is sub optimal but i dont think it affects me to the extent of the diffrence. he is a Human , cunning sneak based around being in stealth 98% of the time he throws his daggers.

Howling Strike: 1d12+1d6+6 which averages 16 assumeing i hit all the time i have a +13 to hit.+1d6 if i charge

Sly flourish :1d4+2d8+11 which averages to 22 assumeing all hits he has a +17 with combat advantage

I can give more info on both builds if nesessery but i would like to know if my damage is just low or his is high.


As a level 8 barbarian, I would suggest the following:

(Be a genasi). Use a vanguard (gouge).

4[level]+5[str]+2[prof]+2[enh]+1[feat]+1[charge] = +15 to hit +17 with CA.

2d6b1[W]+2d6b1[surprising charge]+1d6[howling strike]+1d6[horned helm]+1d8[vanguard]+5[str]+1[spear exp]+1[feat]+2[IAoP] = 4d6b1+2d6+1d8+9, which averages at 36.5 damage on a hit and crits for 53+1d8+MBA (Rampage).

Using a fullblade:

Extra +1 to hit, so +16/+18

You lose surprising charge, and your weapon die changes to d12 (change spear expertise to 2h weapon expertise), so 1d12+2d6+1d8+9, which averages at 27, critting for 41+1d12+1d8+MBA.

So yes, your damage is low.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Dosent that involve charging every turn though. which i am not going be able to do every turn.

so its a great way to up damage on the charge (probably gona have a shuffle around to do that) but its not gona make the average go up too much combats lasting arount 10-11 turns on average. mostly against solos so cant charge between two targets like a pinball.our party comp kinda forces the enemies not to move

Party comp
Show
  bravra warlord
 cunning sneek rogue
chaladin
 thaneborn barb


You do charge every turn. You have a badge of the berserker and boots of adept charging.

So you charge a solo, and shift away after you finish your charge. Next turn you walk away (take a run up) and then charge in again. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
combats lasting arount 10-11 turns on average




If by 'turns' you meant 'rounds' then these are incredibly long combat encounters, even by non-CharOp standards.
yes rounds sorry my mistake there more like wars of atrision than combats
OK, yeah, the problem is that both your personal and your party damage is abysmal.

Realize that, until you get the real multiattacks at higher levels, charging with Howling Strike is your most reliable striker feature. In the mean time, take Thundering Howl, it gets most of your damage modifiers twice.
Prior to Storm of Blades at level 13 you literally only have on striker power to choose as Alraune mentioned, Thundering howl. Curtain of steel is a reasonable filler at level 7 since it hits off turn but aside from these you are basically stuck charging and praying for a crit. Thaneborn has some good powers like Shatterbone Strike to set up the party damage but they dip into leader territory with most of their powers. Rageblood is more of a pure Striker with a free attack every encounter. Focus on the charging as it will be your bread and butter. 

Even if for some reason you don't charge every round barring DM schennanigans there is no reason you can't do it every other round.  You can consider multiclassing to another class like Fighter or Ranger for some proper striking power via Power swap feats until you can stand on your own. The thing you should be focusing on is Strong Encounter powers that hit more than one time or Minor Action Attacks stolen from other classes although many require an off hand weapon. Rain of blows from fighter is a favorite once again with gouge for the extra attack. The Stand and Bang Barbarian thread is a good source for power swap ideas.
Sohei theme is an easy minor action attack.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
thanks for the replies charge optimisation here I come

Think I'm gona grab a reach weapon so the warlord can still give me extra attacks
Sohei theme is an easy minor action attack.


But you're probably better off with Ironwrought or Iron Wolf Warrior, however - Sohei is a minor-action attack, but you likely won't be able to use it on turns when you're charging, unless you also pick up the E3 that lets you charge then use Sohei Flurry.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Sohei Flurry is still a great option because charge is the fallback when you have no good encounter options. Thunderous Howl followed by Sohei Flurry will be a priority over charging. I am also a fan of the U6 as DMs like to dominate Barbarians as much as warlords like to weild them.
can you fit in a multiclass power swap feat?  rain of blows could help you out a ton, since you're mentioning a reach weapon.
You also really need to up your static bonuses. +6 at level 8 is pretty weak. At the least you should try to get an item bonus, probably with Iron Armbands of Power. A feat bonus wouldn't hurt either (as would changing your race - not only do you not have a STR bonus, but your WIS bonus is also basically being wasted if you're pumping CHA for Thaneborn. I can't really think of a worse race you could have chosen besides maybe gnome or shade).
You also really need to up your static bonuses. +6 at level 8 is pretty weak. At the least you should try to get an item bonus, probably with Iron Armbands of Power. A feat bonus wouldn't hurt either (as would changing your race - not only do you not have a STR bonus, but your WIS bonus is also basically being wasted if you're pumping CHA for Thaneborn. I can't really think of a worse race you could have chosen besides maybe gnome or shade).



yeah i know the race is probably the worst choice i could have made but i made a class change ingame from avenger (i turned away from my god but since i know charop dosent care about rp too much ill leave it at that) .arm bands of power i can get hold of since my gm is giving me an opotunity to sort my gear at cost values.

does all of this charge optimisation make me in to a one trick pony?

side note the static mods are low on the whole in my group so a heads up on how to up a rogues (the other striker in our party would be nice he is at +8)



CharOp doesn't "not care" about RP. We just understand that RP and mechanics are separate things. If I want my character to be a big dumb oaf who beats people with a club, that club is a Gouge, and his Int isn't neccesarily low.

It honestly doesn't sound like you are really playing 4e as it was intended.
CharOp doesn't "not care" about RP. We just understand that RP and mechanics are separate things. If I want my character to be a big dumb oaf who beats people with a club, that club is a Gouge, and his Int isn't neccesarily low.

It honestly doesn't sound like you are really playing 4e as it was intended.




good point i do foget rp and mecanics and rp are seperate. and im still in my 3.5 mentality of take what you want rp end and force the mecanics to suit. dosent work in 4th ed so im asking you guys for advice sorry for what may have came out wrong.
using the other shifter race for the strength bonus really shouldn't be a huge deal, even with an RP heavy group that might care. 
yeah i know the race is probably the worst choice i could have made but i made a class change ingame from avenger (i turned away from my god but since i know charop dosent care about rp too much ill leave it at that)

I didn't mean to sound super critical about it. I think a different way to look at CharOp and RP is that CharOp doesn't see RP as a restricting force on optimization. RP can be used to explain anything you want. For example, you can turn away from your god and still be an Avenger - just RP why. Hell, you could RP that it was your god that bestowed your shifter form and now you're a regular human, or your new god bestows the power to become a longtooth shifter.
does all of this charge optimisation make me in to a one trick pony?

Yes, it does. Some people still find it engaging, but I know that I personally don't find chargers to be very fun.
I found the thing that makes charge builds boring is the Badge of the Berzerker. If you omit this from the build and have to act tactically and think ahead they are more fun. Even a charge build can throw in some variety though with encounter powers that support you. Once you get the movement down you can usually charge reliably even without the badge or even just suck up the occasional OA to keep it exciting.