ALTERNATIVE (ADVANCED MODULE?) HP/WOUNDS SYSTEM

LONG POST


This is my first “real” post so do not hit me to hard ;)


What I would like is to discuss with you the underlying idea and not necessarily or only the current numbers shown below.


I would greatly appreciate both positive and negative feedback J


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GOALS: simplicity (both in terms of impact on the rest of the rules and bookkeeping), modularity, allowing coherent martial and natural healing.


CAVEATS: the below is a proposition which is based on the current iteration of the playtest and it has no comprehensiveness (nor final balance) goals.


Vulnus Points (VP) represents physical resistance and toughness (aka "meat"). Experience and Constitution determine the amount of VP.


Hit Points (HP) represents luck, stamina, awareness, combat skills & focus, morale, instinct, vitality, resistance, willpower, experience. Class and Experience determine the amount of VP.


VP are lost once HP are depleted.


Once starting to lose VP, any creature is Wounded.


Once at a half or lower of maximum VP, any creature is Bloodied.


BLOODIED


A Bloodied creature cannot take reactions and must make a Constitution save (DC 10) to cast a spell or make a check.


WOUNDED


The first time a creature is Wounded in a combat it gets Disadvantage on the next attack/save/check it does within the end of its next turn.


Wounded and Bloodied are Conditions which may trigger various characters' features, feats spells, monsters' abilities and magic items alike. A couple of sample ideas (sorry for the names, I know they suck) which I think may be easily expanded:


a)      Blood Hunter, a feat which allows you to impose the Wounded Condition more than once during a fight (i.e. every time a Bloodlust creature hits a target which is already Wounded, that target gets Disadvantage on the next attack/save/check it does within the end of its next turn).


b)      Bloody Revenge, a feat which allows you to immediately make a melee attack versus any creature within range,  once you become Bloodied. 


Some effects may directly target VP instead (e.g. poison, disease, assassin's backstab, targeting hapless creature, drowning, a few spells). These should be limited in numbers  and only applied to those effects which are iconic in being considered as targeting only the "meat" of the target  and versus which experience as an adventurer does not play a big role in trying to avoid the dames of - by way of example I would exclude from this list any effects as a Fireball or a Lightning Bolt, making them subject to the "standard" rule above (HP first, then VP) but I would include Disintegrate or Power Word Kill in the list.


Magic Healing restores VP first. Once VP are replenished, any exceeding healing restores HP.


Martial Healing restores HP only.


Natural Healing restores VP based on the dial options  presented below.


During a Short or a Long Rest, a PC can spend his Hit Dice to recover lost HP.


MONSTERS


I would determine VP and HP of Monsters quite freely, based on the nature of the monster and the DM play style. As a guideline, it seems to me that calculating VP as the higher of (Constitution modifier x HD) or the number of HD and HP as standard HP less VP works fine. A few Monsters’ abilities should be changed (e.g. undead immune to Bloodied and Wounded conditions).


Creatures Natural Healing restores  (1 VP  + 1 VP per Constitution modifier) per ½ HD per Long Rest (rounded down, minimum 1)


RATIONALE


The basic idea is also that given the actual rules on dying, being at 0 HP (or VP under this system) does not mean a creature is dead (Monsters are by convention). This means that VP represents the amount of physical damage required to knock out a given creature.


A  robust NPC human male worker (Con 13 – 1d8 HD – Dark Acolyte as a model) would have  2 VP and 4 HP, meaning that he can maybe sword fight for a single round or even  less with a menace able to hit him (4 HP) and that a solid single knife wound (average 2,5) actually inflicted upon him (in terms of VP loss) can take him out of combat.  He has suffered a wound but he is still able to recover with a proper amount of time.


A human NPC  mercenary captain (Con 12 – 4d8 HD – Human War Chief as a model) would have 4 VP and 18 HP; he can effectively fight several rounds and it takes a solid sword wound (average 4,5) to take him down.  He can resist pain and shock better than the worker (4 VP vs 2 VP) and he the resources he can tap is during the combat (18 HP vs 4 HP) means he can stand much longer the duress of the fight. 


A 3rd level PC human fighter (Con 14 – 3rd level 1d10 HD) would have 9 VP and 22 HP. The experience he earned (his class level) has hardened him to the point he needs to be hit hard enough to get him out of the fight (9 VP) and his fighter class levels gives him 22 HP which represents here his ability to remain focused on his fighting abilities and the target before giving up opening to his foes.  


A 3rd level PC human rogue (Con 14 – 3rd level 1d6 HD) would have 9 VP and 14 HP. The same experience and body toughness of the fighter give him the same amount of VP  - here I consider them as two human being of similar physical characteristics (Con score)  who went through a similar amount of body and mind stress during their career which they learned how to better overcome (their experience level) -   but he is no match for the fighter in terms of fighting endurance.  Staying in the fight for too long means for the rogue beginning to expose himself to potential opening in his defense resulting in actual hits.


Constitution still plays a big role (e.g. a 10th level dwarf with Con 18 can withstand a huger amount of physical pain  - before giving up the fight – than a 10th level human with Con 10 or 12).


The system also implies that in terms of  fighting endurance abilities, skills and motale (HP) a 10th level dwarf fighter with Con 18 is no different from a 10th level human fighter with Con 11 (on average they will have the same amount of HP) but the tough dwarf can stand much harder blows when it comes to resist physical shock and avoid falling unconscious.  


N.B. Under this system the rolling to hit the AC of the target does not mean actually hitting it but better land a “threatening blow” meaning any offensive action (it depends on the nature of the attack) which based on the ability of the attacker (its attack bonus) and the defenses of the target (AC depending on natural or manmade armor and dexterity and eventually magic) is capable of being threatening enough to require the expense of the target resources, in terms of HP and eventually VP when  HP are low enough.


If we have a look at both ends of the spectrum the maximum difference would be 1 to 5 at level 1  and 20 to 120 at level 20 under the “standard” system. The question is, how do we consider a 20th level Con 20 PC to be like? If we imagine Bruenor Battlehammer (assuming that Bruenor would fall, as a concept, under the  “standard” system and not “gritty”, for example) to be a 14th level Con 18 dwarf  (70 VP) and we assume that such amount is correct to justify Bruenor’s resistance to physical injuries before he faint  or get unconscious, then 120 VP would imply the PC has reach the power level of an almost supernatural being (Hercules, Gilgamesh, Achilles and so on) and again, this seems to work fine to me.   


MARTIAL HEALING


Magic Healing and Martial Healing may coexist in a more convincing way.  Magic Healing restores first and foremost actual wounds but also focus, spirit, energies, readiness and willpower of the target, while Martial Healing can restore the latter but not actual, physical wounds.


Once a comrade falls unconscious with a hole in its belly (≤0 VP, 0 HP) , the Warlord may not be able to bring him back to action with Inspiring Word, but he may do so with the shaken, seriously wounded comrade who is on the brink of unconsciousness (1 or 2 VP, 0 HP). There is no actual healing of the wounds (VP stay low after the Warlord uses yells "Not today Ghor, do not give up!") but his companion goes back to combat being able to fight with almost all his abilities properly functioning and only partially incapacitated by the Bloodied condition.


While Magic Healing is more effective (as it should be in my opinion), Martial Healing is still an important and meaningful option.


4 DIAL OPTIONS


A) STANDARD


i) 1 Vulnus Point per level


ii) 1 Vulnus Point per Constitution modifier per level  


HP = standard calculation less Vulnus Points under ii) above.


Natural Healing restores  (1 VP  + 1 VP per Constitution modifier) per ½ level per Long Rest (rounded down, minimum 1)


After a Short Rest, a PC can spend his Hit Dice to recover lost HP.  Hit Dice spent in this way do not benefit of the Constitution modifier.


After a Long Rest, a PC recovers all its HP and  Hit Dice.


B) HERO IC


i) 1 Vulnus Point per level


ii) 1 Vulnus Point per Constitution modifier per level  


HP = standard calculation less Vulnus Points under ii) above.


Natural Healing restores  (1 VP  + 1 VP per Constitution modifier) per level per Long Rest.


After a Short Rest, a PC can spend his Hit Dice to recover lost HP.  Hit Dice spent in this way do not benefit of the Constitution modifier.


After a Long Rest, a PC recovers all its HP and  Hit Dice.


 


C) GRITTY


i) 1 Vulnus Point per level  UP TO level 10


ii) 1 Vulnus Point per Constitution modifier per level UP TO level 10


HP = standard calculation less (Constitution modifier per level)


Natural Healing restores  1 VP  + 1 VP per Constitution modifier per Long Rest.


After a Short Rest, a PC can spend his Hit Dice to recover lost HP.  Hit Dice spent in this way do not benefit of the Constitution modifier.


After a Long Rest, a PC recovers all its Hit Dice.


D) DEADLY


i) 1 Vulnus Point per level  UP TO level  10


ii) 1 Vulnus Point per Constitution modifier UP TO level 10


HP = standard calculation less (Constitution modifier per level)


Natural Healing restores  1 VP and 1 Hit Die per Long Rest.


During a Short or a Long Rest, a PC can spend his Hit Dice to recover lost HP.  Hit Dice spent in this way do not benefit of the Constitution modifier.


EXAMPLES (STANDARD)


FIGHTER (1D10)


1st level Fighter with 10 (+0) Constitution = 1 Vulnus Points + 10 HP TOTAL = 11


1st level Fighter with 12 (+1) Constitution = 2 Vulnus Points + 10 HP TOTAL = 12


1st level Fighter with 14 (+2) Constitution = 3 Vulnus Points + 10 HP TOTAL = 13


1st level Fighter with 16 (+3) Constitution = 4 Vulnus Points + 10 HP TOTAL = 14


1st level Fighter with 18 (+4) Constitution = 5 Vulnus Points + 10 HP TOTAL = 15


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5th level Fighter with 10 (+0) Constitution = 5 Vulnus Points + 34 HP TOTAL = 39


5th level Fighter with 12 (+1) Constitution = 10 Vulnus Points + 34 HP TOTAL = 44


5th level Fighter with 14 (+2) Constitution = 15 Vulnus Points + 34 HP TOTAL = 49


5th level Fighter with 16 (+3) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 34 HP TOTAL = 54


5th level Fighter with 18 (+4) Constitution = 25 Vulnus Points + 34 HP TOTAL = 59


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _


10th level Fighter with 10 (+0) Constitution = 10 Vulnus Points + 64 HP TOTAL = 74


10th level Fighter with 12 (+1) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 64 HP TOTAL = 84


10th level Fighter with 14 (+2) Constitution = 30 Vulnus Points + 64 HP TOTAL = 94


10th level Fighter with 16 (+3) Constitution = 40 Vulnus Points + 64 HP TOTAL = 104


10th level Fighter with 18 (+4) Constitution = 50 Vulnus Points + 64 HP TOTAL = 114


10th level Fighter with 20 (+5) Constitution = 60 Vulnus Points + 64 HP TOTAL = 124


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20th level Fighter with 10 (+0) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 124 HP TOTAL = 144


20th level Fighter with 12 (+1) Constitution = 40 Vulnus Points + 124 HP TOTAL = 164


20th level Fighter with 14 (+2) Constitution = 60 Vulnus Points + 124 HP TOTAL = 184


20th level Fighter with 16 (+3) Constitution = 80 Vulnus Points + 124 HP TOTAL = 204


20th level Fighter with 18 (+4) Constitution = 100 Vulnus Points + 124 HP TOTAL = 224


20th level Fighter with 20 (+5) Constitution = 120 Vulnus Points + 124 HP TOTAL = 244


RANGER (1D8)


1st level Ranger with 10 (+0) Constitution = 1 Vulnus Points + 8 HP TOTAL = 9


1st level Ranger with 12 (+1) Constitution = 2 Vulnus Points + 8 HP TOTAL = 10


1st level Ranger with 14 (+2) Constitution = 3 Vulnus Points + 8 HP TOTAL = 11


1st level Ranger with 16 (+3) Constitution = 4 Vulnus Points + 8 HP TOTAL = 12


1st level Ranger with 18 (+4) Constitution = 5 Vulnus Points + 8 HP TOTAL = 13


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5th level Ranger with 10 (+0) Constitution = 5 Vulnus Points + 28 HP TOTAL = 33


5th level Ranger with 12 (+1) Constitution = 10 Vulnus Points + 28 HP TOTAL = 38


5th level Ranger with 14 (+2) Constitution = 15 Vulnus Points + 28 HP TOTAL = 43


5th level Ranger with 16 (+3) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 28 HP TOTAL = 48


5th level Ranger with 18 (+4) Constitution = 25 Vulnus Points + 28 HP TOTAL = 53


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10th level Ranger with 10 (+0) Constitution = 10 Vulnus Points + 53 HP TOTAL = 63


10th level Ranger with 12 (+1) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 53 HP TOTAL = 73


10th level Ranger with 14 (+2) Constitution = 30 Vulnus Points + 53 HP TOTAL = 83


10th level Ranger with 16 (+3) Constitution = 40 Vulnus Points + 53 HP TOTAL =  93


10th level Ranger with 18 (+4) Constitution = 50 Vulnus Points + 53 HP TOTAL = 103


10th level Ranger with 20 (+5) Constitution = 60 Vulnus Points + 53 HP TOTAL = 113


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20th level Ranger with 10 (+0) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 103 HP TOTAL = 123


20th level Ranger with 12 (+1) Constitution = 40 Vulnus Points + 103 HP TOTAL = 143


20th level Ranger with 14 (+2) Constitution = 60 Vulnus Points + 103 HP TOTAL = 163


20th level Ranger with 16 (+3) Constitution = 80 Vulnus Points + 103 HP TOTAL = 183


20th level Ranger with 18 (+4) Constitution = 100 Vulnus Points + 103 HP TOTAL = 203


20th level Ranger with 20 (+5) Constitution = 120 Vulnus Points + 103 HP TOTAL = 223


WIZARD (1D6)


1st level Wizard with 10 (+0) Constitution = 1 Vulnus Points + 6 HP TOTAL = 7


1st level Wizard with 12 (+1) Constitution = 2 Vulnus Points + 6 HP TOTAL = 8


1st level Wizard with 14 (+2) Constitution = 3 Vulnus Points + 6 HP TOTAL = 9


1st level Wizard with 16 (+3) Constitution = 4 Vulnus Points + 6 HP TOTAL = 10


1st level Wizard with 18 (+4) Constitution = 5 Vulnus Points + 6 HP TOTAL = 11


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5th level Wizard with 10 (+0) Constitution = 5 Vulnus Points + 22 HP TOTAL = 27


5th level Wizard with 12 (+1) Constitution = 10 Vulnus Points + 22 HP TOTAL = 32


5th level Wizard with 14 (+2) Constitution = 15 Vulnus Points + 22 HP TOTAL = 37


5th level Wizard with 16 (+3) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 22 HP TOTAL = 42


5th level Wizard with 18 (+4) Constitution = 25 Vulnus Points + 22 HP TOTAL = 47


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _


10th level Wizard with 10 (+0) Constitution = 10 Vulnus Points + 42 HP TOTAL = 52


10th level Wizard with 12 (+1) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 42 HP TOTAL = 62


10th level Wizard with 14 (+2) Constitution = 30 Vulnus Points + 42 HP TOTAL = 72


10th level Wizard with 16 (+3) Constitution = 40 Vulnus Points + 42 HP TOTAL = 82


10th level Wizard with 18 (+4) Constitution = 50 Vulnus Points + 42 HP TOTAL = 92


10th level Wizard with 20 (+5) Constitution = 60 Vulnus Points + 42 HP TOTAL = 102


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _


20th level Wizard with 10 (+0) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 82 HP TOTAL = 82


20th level Wizard with 12 (+1) Constitution = 40 Vulnus Points + 72 HP TOTAL = 102


20th level Wizard with 14 (+2) Constitution = 60 Vulnus Points + 82 HP TOTAL = 122


20th level Wizard with 16 (+3) Constitution = 80 Vulnus Points + 92 HP TOTAL = 142


20th level Wizard with 18 (+4) Constitution = 100 Vulnus Points + 102 HP TOTAL = 162


20th level Wizard with 20 (+5) Constitution = 120 Vulnus Points + 112 HP TOTAL = 182


BARBARIAN (1D12)


1st level Barbarian with 10 (+0) Constitution = 1 Vulnus Points + 12 HP TOTAL = 13


1st level Barbarian with 12 (+1) Constitution = 2 Vulnus Points + 12 HP TOTAL = 14


1st level Barbarian with 14 (+2) Constitution = 3 Vulnus Points + 12 HP TOTAL = 15


1st level Barbarian with 16 (+3) Constitution = 4 Vulnus Points + 12 HP TOTAL = 16


1st level Barbarian with 18 (+4) Constitution = 5 Vulnus Points + 12 HP TOTAL = 17


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _


5th level Barbarian with 10 (+0) Constitution = 5 Vulnus Points + 40 HP TOTAL = 45


5th level Barbarian with 12 (+1) Constitution = 10 Vulnus Points + 40 HP TOTAL = 50


5th level Barbarian with 14 (+2) Constitution = 15 Vulnus Points + 40 HP TOTAL = 55


5th level Barbarian with 16 (+3) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 40 HP TOTAL = 60


5th level Barbarian with 18 (+4) Constitution = 25 Vulnus Points + 40 HP TOTAL = 65


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _


10th level Barbarian with 10 (+0) Constitution = 10 Vulnus Points + 75 HP TOTAL = 85


10th level Barbarian with 12 (+1) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 75 HP TOTAL = 95


10th level Barbarian with 14 (+2) Constitution = 30 Vulnus Points + 75 HP TOTAL =105


10th level Barbarian with 16 (+3) Constitution = 40 Vulnus Points + 75 HP TOTAL = 115


10th level Barbarian with 18 (+4) Constitution = 50 Vulnus Points + 75 HP TOTAL = 125


10th level Barbarian with 20 (+5) Constitution = 60 Vulnus Points + 75 HP TOTAL = 135


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _


20th level Barbarian with 10 (+0) Constitution = 20 Vulnus Points + 145 HP TOTAL = 165


20th level Barbarian with 12 (+1) Constitution = 40 Vulnus Points + 145 HP TOTAL = 185


20th level Barbarian with 14 (+2) Constitution = 60 Vulnus Points + 145 HP TOTAL = 205


20th level Barbarian with 16 (+3) Constitution = 80 Vulnus Points + 145 HP TOTAL = 225


20th level Barbarian with 18 (+4) Constitution = 100 Vulnus Points + 145 HP TOTAL = 245


20th level Barbarian with 20 (+5) Constitution = 120 Vulnus Points + 145 HP TOTAL = 265

Fun, finicky, and magical healing is a little overpowered compared to martial hit point recovery.

If HP no longer represents "meat" then HP recovery is a matter of grit and resolve, etc.

Therefore the effects of non-vulnus recovery ought to be somewhat amplified (before adjusting dials for deadliness).

I know you weren't aiming for balance, but moving martial HP recovery out of "the ghetto" would make your module more appealing to those fans of Martial HP recovery.
Fun, finicky, and magical healing is a little overpowered compared to martial hit point recovery. If HP no longer represents "meat" then HP recovery is a matter of grit and resolve, etc. Therefore the effects of non-vulnus recovery ought to be somewhat amplified (before adjusting dials for deadliness). I know you weren't aiming for balance, but moving martial HP recovery out of "the ghetto" would make your module more appealing to those fans of Martial HP recovery.



Thanks a lot bawylie!!

I understand magical healing is overpovered compared to martial hit point recovery and to natural hit point recovery but I wonder, given the adanced module nature of this system and the tweaks it would anyway needs, could this be balanced by making martial healing (warlord and bard alike) doubled under this module, for example? Dunno, I always had the guts feeling that magical healing should be somehow better.

Regarding the clunkiness of the rules and the explanation, I agree is not so clear: on one hand I tried to make a few examples to explain the reasoning behind it and what kind of number would come out, but on the other hand if you narrow down how many rules changes it brings, the result is HP and VP calculation (once per level) - Wounded and Bloodied conditions - how 2 different kind of healing works.

Also, it may depends on English not being my primary language Smile





Perhaps magical healing only heals volnus, martial heals only HP, and Bards could have the schtick of healing a little of both.
Perhaps magical healing only heals volnus, martial heals only HP, and Bards could have the schtick of healing a little of both.



Thanks Lechteron, it sounds a nice approach, making bards yet a different kind of than the other two.
I was also thinking about magical healing restoring HP at a slower pace (i.e. once VP are replehished it converts exceeding points at 1/2. WHat do you think?

I admire the effort, mate, really, that's a whole lot of rules and text.

But the book keeping of all that would be hell on earth. I'd rather have the good ol' simple hit point system. Makes enough sense as a game mechanic and doesn't require more book keeping than recording a single current number on the sheet.


But as I said, good effort. My guess is you're writting that from a player perspective. Players only have to keep track of 1 character so it may not seem much. As a DM, though, having to keep track of tons of stuff for 15 different NPCs (and all that for HP only, not to mention everything else) it'd be just hell. And every encounter would probably waster hours of the game session, and be slow to a crawl.

I'd rather have simple and maleable rules that leave more space for role-playing and story in the game.

I admire the effort, mate, really, that's a whole lot of rules and text.

But the book keeping of all that would be hell on earth. I'd rather have the good ol' simple hit point system. Makes enough sense as a game mechanic and doesn't require more book keeping than recording a single current number on the sheet.


But as I said, good effort. My guess is you're writting that from a player perspective. Players only have to keep track of 1 character so it may not seem much. As a DM, though, having to keep track of tons of stuff for 15 different NPCs (and all that for HP only, not to mention everything else) it'd be just hell. And every encounter would probably waster hours of the game session, and be slow to a crawl.

I'd rather have simple and maleable rules that leave more space for role-playing and story in the game.



Thanks! 

I was playing with the idea for a little while and writing the actual rules did not take that much space at beginning what took more time (and text) was to write down why I made some specfic choices and the examples (which I needed to understand whether this was leading to in terms of numbers). Regarding  the DM perspective, if you think about it (besides the suggestion of being free to adapt the VP management for NPC and monsters to your DM and group style and to the "heat of the moment") VP are usually low enough to become relevant only for one last hit or maybe two in case if bigger critters and it resolves in the creature getting the Wounded/Bloodied condition for one last round. Also, this is the main reason why I was thinking about an advanced module for those who like adding more details to the rules.

What would you suggest to simplify it and keep the idea of separating HP from "meat"? What about fixed VP per level and the rest standard HP for PC? Or only solos having VP? (to justify the fact you cannot easily kill a dragon even if you find it sleeping and helpless?)
What about adding another layer with a wound chart table or critical hits also doing damages to VP for the ones who like even more complexity ?   

Bran
My idea for module is levels of health, like from storytelling system (World of Darkness and Exalted).

Hitpoints like always, with bloodied condition (and other like wounded).

The levels of health is like a "pool" for penalties caused by fatal injuries, poison, diseases, supernatural curses. Simpler that draining score abilities or levels. Full pool = zero penalty.

- Bruised (-1 penalty for physical checks)
- Hurt (-2)
- Injuried (-3)
- wounded (-4)
- mauled (-5)
- Crippled (-6)
- Combat Out.

A character could be total hitpoints but K.O. by poison or a sleeping dart. 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

A seriously good idea : Crits deal damage directly to VP.

Cutting down a bit:

1.) you have vitality equal to your CON score. If your vitality is reduced to zero or below, you are dying.
2.) all Hit points granted by class go on top of your vitality. Once your hp is depleted, damage is dealt to your vitality.
3.) critical hits damage vitality directly. (You roll weapon damage normally).
4.) martial HP restoration doesn't restore lost vitality but can restore 100% of your total HP
5.) magical healing restores lost vitality but can only restore up to 50% of your total HP. Any magical healing above 50% is useless.

There - simple, deadly & separated HP from meat.

How you deal with healing and restoration is left up to "the dials"
A seriously good idea : Crits deal damage directly to VP. Cutting down a bit: 1.) you have vitality equal to your CON score. If your vitality is reduced to zero or below, you are dying. 2.) all Hit points granted by class go on top of your vitality. Once your hp is depleted, damage is dealt to your vitality. 3.) critical hits damage vitality directly. (You roll weapon damage normally). 4.) martial HP restoration doesn't restore lost vitality but can restore 100% of your total HP 5.) magical healing restores lost vitality but can only restore up to 50% of your total HP. Any magical healing above 50% is useless. There - simple, deadly & separated HP from meat. How you deal with healing and restoration is left up to "the dials"



I think this is sound and nice!!

What about somehow limit a bit the amount of damages on a critical hit, so that your level 20 PC cannot be killed by a lucky roll?   
I don't know, if you're playing this way, you're kind of accepting a certain degree of lethality.

Your level 20 PC takes 13 damage to his vitality and he likely starts dying. He still gets to roll to stabilize and the cleric or bard still can try to get his vitality up.

It's not "game over" but it IS close enough that threat if death is a BIG DEAL.
I like this system so much that, if I were Mike Mearls, it would be core. Sadly, unfortunately, I'm not him. You still have my +1, though.
I worked out an idea like this before Next was announced. Basically, your Race determines the number of Wounds you have, and it never increases... ever. Your HP, which is basically your stamina, can go up in level, as it represents your ability to avoid threatening wounds.

My system was that you took a Wound when:
1) a damaging Attack hit by 5+ your AC (this was before Bounded Accuracy)
2) you took 50% of your Max HP in an encounter
3) you fell to 0 HP
4) you fail a Death Saving Throw
5) you suffer a Critical Hit (this is cumulative with item 1 if the critical hit is 5+ your AC)

Wounds:
1) cause -1/2 penalty to all d20 rolls
2) require magic or a full day's rest (plus a Con roll) to heal

HP:
1) short rest to recover 1 HD of HP
            (kinda like the current HD rules, except it wasn't limited to a number of times per day)
2) extended rest to recover full HP
I worked out an idea like this before Next was announced. Basically, your Race determines the number of Wounds you have, and it never increases... ever. Your HP, which is basically your stamina, can go up in level, as it represents your ability to avoid threatening wounds.

My system was that you took a Wound when:
1) a damaging Attack hit by 5+ your AC (this was before Bounded Accuracy)
2) you took 50% of your Max HP in an encounter
3) you fell to 0 HP
4) you fail a Death Saving Throw
5) you suffer a Critical Hit (this is cumulative with item 1 if the critical hit is 5+ your AC)

Wounds:
1) cause -1/2 penalty to all d20 rolls
2) require magic or a full day's rest (plus a Con roll) to heal

HP:
1) short rest to recover 1 HD of HP
            (kinda like the current HD rules, except it wasn't limited to a number of times per day)
2) extended rest to recover full HP




Thanks! I alway thought Con and experience should anyway affect VP, if we start from the assumption that a LVL 20 PC can withstan much more physical shock compared to a LVL 1 PC, but I like some of the options you suggest, especially taking too much HP during a single encounter and Con roll to recover VP (or Wound under your denomination)
I like this system so much that, if I were Mike Mearls, it would be core. Sadly, unfortunately, I'm not him. You still have my +1, though.



Ehehhe I am not sure if you are serious here, but I do appreciate the +1! Thanks!
I like this system so much that, if I were Mike Mearls, it would be core. Sadly, unfortunately, I'm not him. You still have my +1, though.

I think it needs simplified, just a little bit.
I was in the early stages of a meat/luck or injury/fatigue system, but it ended up being pretty much this one anyway.
A seriously good idea : Crits deal damage directly to VP. Cutting down a bit: 1.) you have vitality equal to your CON score. If your vitality is reduced to zero or below, you are dying. 2.) all Hit points granted by class go on top of your vitality. Once your hp is depleted, damage is dealt to your vitality. 3.) critical hits damage vitality directly. (You roll weapon damage normally). 4.) martial HP restoration doesn't restore lost vitality but can restore 100% of your total HP 5.) magical healing restores lost vitality but can only restore up to 50% of your total HP. Any magical healing above 50% is useless. There - simple, deadly & separated HP from meat. How you deal with healing and restoration is left up to "the dials"



I think this is sound and nice!!

What about somehow limit a bit the amount of damages on a critical hit, so that your level 20 PC cannot be killed by a lucky roll?   



Yes it sounds nice and it's deadly...but scarse. I run it mainly your way....just my VPs are the CON stat. simple and flat. When you get a critical hit the weapon's die damage directly your CON...the rest follow. But with crits happening only on 20. It isn't that much. Of course things change after 9th with the Called shot feat

I don't mean to sound mean, but it seems a bit convoluted. why not just go with the wound/vitality system of d20
I don't mean to sound mean, but it seems a bit convoluted. why not just go with the wound/vitality system of d20

The problem I've noted with systems like that is that, once you provide a way to directly inflict the more serious type of damage, nothing else really matters anymore.  

 

 

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@ Tony: True, but right now the only two ways to affect Wounds is to either chomp through Vitality or get crits. Crti-fishing isnt an option in 5E (which is good) so far, so it seems to me that there isn't a way to actively build characters to attack one stat more.