Dead rules are broken by RAW.

Currently, you need to exactly get a certain number of hit points to die, and being at -9999999 HP means your not dead.

Clearly, it's not the intent.


Dead
You die when your hit points drop to a number
that equals is less then your Constitution score plus your
character level expressed as a negative value. If
you’re 5th level and have a 14 Constitution, for
example, you die when your hit points drop to below 
−19.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

So... if I jump in front of a bus, there's a good chace I'll become immortal?

Currently, you need to exactly get a certain number of hit points to die, and being at -9999999 HP means your not dead.

Clearly, it's not the intent.


Dead
You die when your hit points drop to a number
that equals is less then your Constitution score plus your
character level expressed as a negative value. If
you’re 5th level and have a 14 Constitution, for
example, you die when your hit points drop to below 
−19.




If you’re 5th level and have a 14 Constitution, for
example, you die when your hit points drop to
−19.

Well, you have to drop to -19 before you get to -20, or anywhere lower past it, so if you're at -15 and take 6 more damage, the first 4 of that damage would put you at -19, at which point you die, then finally at -21, which is irrelevant at that point since your died when you hit -19.

It could surely be worded better, but I wouldn't say that the RAW lets you live below the target negative HP number just beause you didn't roll exactly the number that would hit it.

---

brian ®

Guitars & Gaming

So... if I jump in front of a bus, there's a good chace I'll become immortal?

For 1d8 hours, then you heal and have to find another bus.  And you'd be unconcious the whole time.

Well, you have to drop to -19 before you get to -20, or anywhere lower past it, so if you're at -15 and take 6 more damage, the first 4 of that damage would put you at -19, at which point you die, then finally at -21, which is irrelevant at that point since your died when you hit -19.

That's a very very different way of "subtrating" then i have ever learned.

-15 - 6 = -21
Not
-15  - 6 = -15 - 4 = -19 (wait a moment) - 2 = -21


As written, you can only die at very specific hit points.  Or a Coup de Grace. 

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

So... if I jump in front of a bus, there's a good chace I'll become immortal?

For 1d8 hours, then you heal and have to find another bus.  And you'd be unconcious the whole time.

Well, you have to drop to -19 before you get to -20, or anywhere lower past it, so if you're at -15 and take 6 more damage, the first 4 of that damage would put you at -19, at which point you die, then finally at -21, which is irrelevant at that point since your died when you hit -19.

That's a very very different way of "subtrating" then i have ever learned.

-15 - 6 = -21
Not
-15  - 6 = -15 - 4 = -19 (wait a moment) - 2 = -21


As written, you can only die at very specific hit points.  Or a Coup de Grace. 



I'm pretty sure we subtract the same way. My point is that as part of subtracting, you're going to hit and pass the number that equals your constitution modifier + level. It's pretty obvious that this is the intention.

After all, 15 + 6 is the equivalent of 15 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1. That's how we all learned to add and subtract when we first began.

---

brian ®

Guitars & Gaming

After all, 15 + 6 is the equivalent of 15 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1. That's how we all learned to add and subtract when we first began.


15 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 = 21.

It never equals 19.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

After all, 15 + 6 is the equivalent of 15 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1. That's how we all learned to add and subtract when we first began.


15 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 = 21.

It never equals 19.



Sorry, we'll just have agree to disagree. You can't get to 21 without passing 19 on the way. Like I said, the rule could be written more clearly, but clearly nobody is going to think you can stay alive as long as the numbers don't add up to exactly the target number without passing it along the way.

It doesn't say you die only when your final negative number equals EXACTLY -19 when all caclulations are finished.

---

brian ®

Guitars & Gaming

Like I said, the rule could be written more clearly



Which is, more or less, the point of the whole thread ^^

Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/14.jpg)

Like I said, the rule could be written more clearly



Which is, more or less, the point of the whole thread ^^



There's a difference between the rule needing to be written more clearly and the rule being incorrect. That was my point.

---

brian ®

Guitars & Gaming

A spergy programmer might think "When HPs drop to -19 HP, you die" is equivalent to If (DeathHP == -19) { you.die() }, but it's obvious to everyone else that "drop to -19" is supposed to mean DeathHP <= -19.
Like I said, the rule could be written more clearly



Which is, more or less, the point of the whole thread ^^

There's a difference between the rule needing to be written more clearly and the rule being incorrect. That was my point.

It is incorrect.   It's obvious how it should be, but that's not what's written.

But nothing i can say will sway you (perhaps a math teacher could), so i'll just and leave it at that.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Like I said, the rule could be written more clearly



Which is, more or less, the point of the whole thread ^^

There's a difference between the rule needing to be written more clearly and the rule being incorrect. That was my point.

It is incorrect.   It's obvious how it should be, but that's not what's written.

But nothing i can say will sway you (perhaps a math teacher could), so i'll just and leave it at that.



I understand math just fine, thanks. Wink

---

brian ®

Guitars & Gaming

This is why I hate the usage of RAW. It should be obvious to anybody what is meant, but a Rules Lawyer will spend half a session explaining why he's immortal. My normal response to such a player is "get out!" Yell

I do agree that the wording could be better, however, this is still an unrefined playtest. People who are ruining playtest games with such rules wankery are really not helping. Another example is the Distract argument. Note, this does not include something where the rules are unclear (and there are several), only where the intent is obvious.
If you conceptualize HP as a mercury thermometer that fills up or drains, then the wording is fine. If you conceptualize HP as a digital clock that instantaneously changes from 12:59 to 01:00, then it's not fine. I think of the former, since it's more video-gamey and that's where my concept of HP comes from.
If you conceptualize HP as a mercury thermometer that fills up or drains, then the wording is fine.



That's a good example of what I was describing.

---

brian ®

Guitars & Gaming

If you conceptualize HP as a mercury thermometer that fills up or drains, then the wording is fine. If you conceptualize HP as a digital clock that instantaneously changes from 12:59 to 01:00, then it's not fine. I think of the former, since it's more video-gamey and that's where my concept of HP comes from.



I have to say that i'd never conceptualized HP change as anything else than a quantum leap between an inital condition C1 and a final condition C2.

The text is clear: if your HP total is X, you are dead. If you HP total is different than X, you are alive. Then we can talk for ages about the interpretation of Hit Points, RAI, etc. The text, though, is not clear as it should be... and since this is a playtest, it may still change to something clearer.

Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/14.jpg)

After all, 15 + 6 is the equivalent of 15 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1. That's how we all learned to add and subtract when we first began.


15 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 = 21.

It never equals 19.


So this is the kind of discussions this board has come down to ?

...Smashing
 
Try radiance RPG. A complete D20 game that supports fantasy and steampunk. Download the FREE PDF here: http://www.radiancerpg.com
Rules Lawyer crits you for over 9,000.  

Re-roll. 
"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
But nothing i can say will sway you (perhaps a math teacher could).



Actually, as a math teacher, I agree with him. The use of the word "drop" here implies that HP doesn't skip around but rather moves linearly along the set of integers. Thus, it cannot reach a value less than X, where X=(-1)(Con + level) without passing through X first.

Unless of course it was coming from the other direction, so technically by RAW I guess you could start with, say, -5000 HP [I don't see anything in the rules stating that your character starts the game with full HP] in which case you'd just have to watch out for Clerics healing you to death. Tongue Out


All that said, I see no reason to object to a rewriting of the rule in question.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/7.jpg)

Let's be semantic. To "drop" means to "fall," "descend," or "move from a higher elevation to a lower one." None of those definitions are the same as quantum leaps, instant changes, or numerical substitutions.

"RAW" as a concept is meaningless, especially when it produces nonsensical results like this argument. The Ws of RAW are always open to interpretation. Claiming that one's own interpretation is somehow superior because it is RAW is fallacious reasoning. RAW is always RAI because written words are always interpeted by the reader. In this case, that interpretation can go either way, so RAW is ambiguous (as it often can be).

EDIT: To clarify, since I'm in one of those moods.

If one says, "By RAW, you have six attributes: STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, and CHA," then that's a fine use of RAW because it's hardly debateable that any other interpretation is possible.

However, if one takes a number of feats from separate sources, mixes it with a class from Dragon magazine, takes a monster race from the newly released, unerrata'd Monster Manual and creates an unstoppable combo character based on an overly literal reading of multiple sources, is asked to change because the character seems obviously unbalanced, but the player refuses because "It's fair because it's all RAW," THEN... that's a completely improper use of the "RAW" concept. Using "RAW" there implies a legitimacy that frankly does not exist.
I think this is a worthwhile thread in a play test.

Not because I think it is a good topic, but because I can see the future 5e CharOP going to town and being painfully literal with the line. Given we're in playtest, best to remove the problem now.
Yes, this needs to be changed.


Listen to charop peoples, they will destroy balance over semantics and it's important this stuff is figured out before it's released.
Listen to charop peoples, they will destroy balance over semantics and it's important this stuff is figured out before it's released.



So, if us members of CO boards are, in your opinion, culprits for the lack of balance in the game (not in real games, but in the game discussion), i'm happy to be a culprit.

But not every optimizer is a rule lawyer, and this is a playtest anyway. I don't see the reason of this criticism.

Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/14.jpg)

Currently, you need to exactly get a certain number of hit points to die, and being at -9999999 HP means your not dead.

Clearly, it's not the intent.


Dead
You die when your hit points drop to a number
that equals is less then your Constitution score plus your
character level expressed as a negative value. If
you’re 5th level and have a 14 Constitution, for
example, you die when your hit points drop to below 
−19.


I can't imagine anyone honestly thinking they can only die if they hit a certain negative number, this topic is unnecessary.
 I can't imagine anyone honestly thinking they can only die if they hit a certain negative number, this topic is unnecessary.



QFT.

This thread should have been titled "Feedback on clarity of language" and simply pointed out the confusing wording.

Then again, it will be handy linking back to this thread whenever the OP suggests something dubious.

"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
 I can't imagine anyone honestly thinking they can only die if they hit a certain negative number, this topic is unnecessary.



QFT.

This thread should have been titled "Feedback on clarity of language" and simply pointed out the confusing wording.

Then again, it will be handy linking back to this thread whenever the OP suggests something dubious.




You are suggesting that Mellored's posting of an amusing illustration of an unnecessarily ambiguous wording in the rules-text is at all relevant to his credibility when it comes to proposing 'dubious' things? It strikes me that it might suggest you expect him to uphold a similarly strict standard for his wordings, rather than the idea that he cannot have a good idea. >_>; lol
I can't imagine anyone honestly thinking they can only die if they hit a certain negative number, this topic is unnecessary.

Why do people think i'm advocating playing this way?

The language should just be more clear.  Now is the time to clean it up.

This thread should have been titled "Feedback on clarity of language" and simply pointed out the confusing wording.

I'm pretty sure that's what i did...

though admitteldy, i'm not payed for comming up with clear titles. 

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

A spergy programmer might think "When HPs drop to -19 HP, you die" is equivalent to If (DeathHP == -19) { you.die() }, but it's obvious to everyone else that "drop to -19" is supposed to mean DeathHP <= -19="" --="--">



A programmer would know computers don't execute == as <=

A designer should know to write unambiguous rules as a principle because the next time he messes up it might be for something less obvious to all GMs.

This topic is appropriate for beta. Clean up the language. 
I'll miss that rule, but now that it's dead what can be done.  By the way, what was it that killed the rule - a raw  ...er what...egg?  salmonella?  just curious.
Please. Let. This. Thread. Die. I fill with a little more rage every day I see this thread come back to the top of the list. Surely there are more deserving topics out there.


As written, you can only die at very specific hit points.  Or a Coup de Grace. 



This is the dumbest thing I've seen all day, and I've already been to reddit. 

If you have to fix it, it's broken.

Please. Let. This. Thread. Die.

It would have, but it's rules-lawyer'd its way into immortality because it didn't get exactly dead.

That's it. I got Pun-Pun on the phone, a pair of spiked shields, and an overinflated sense of self. This ends tonight.
This thread is facinating in terms of showing up two very distinct audience demographics.

Can't wait for one of the 'it's fine' group to complain about something like a pictured character who has equipment in the picture that isn't in his equipment list.

Princes of the Apocalypse Actual Play Accounts ( Over seven of 'em! For one campaign! )

 

"In the game there is magic" - Orethalion

 

Only got words in my copy.

 

Philosopher Gamer

Please. Let. This. Thread. Die.

It would have, but it's rules-lawyer'd its way into immortality because it didn't get exactly dead.




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brian ®

Guitars & Gaming

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