Grim & Gritty (G&G)

I'm a total 4venger now. But a few years back a friend of mine ran a 3/3.5 Ravenloft campaign using a system some fan made called Grim & Gritty.

It was a blast.

IIRC, HP = Constitution and never increased. AC was like DR. Larger monsters had crazy HP because HP really was meat. BAB penalties were assessed for a truly radical called-shot system.

Now lately we've been in a debate about Hit Point as Hero Points or Meat Points. (Hero, if you care about my vote).

But what I hope is that WOTC digs up this Grim & Gritty system and applies it to the "Armor as DR" advanced module. In fact, call the whole darn thing G&G.

I'm not saying I am willing to give up Hero Points forever. But I'd definitely devote at least a whole campaign to it.

Did anyone else ever run across this thing? How was it?

-Brad

 

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I wouldn't mind a DR module in game for the sole purpose of applying it for shield users.

 

I just said something and you just read it. Sorry about that.

Looks like your friend and I have something in common. Like him i ran few Ravenloft meets Call of Chtullu and Dark Sun adventures using Grim&Gritty. Oh the fun of TPKs. I really love that stuff. It made my players learn one important lession - retreat is always a valid option. And now they know to chose their battles when I'm DMing. Also played it when my friend run his homebrew Dark Ages Europe style campaign. When you see a well equped guard you think twice about starting a fight and monsters,even orcs and goblins become real threats and scary and not just mooks to hack. But for that you need to have mature group which can handle that kind of playstyle and it's ok with their characters dying because of one bad decision. If they ever release official DDN Grim&Gritty i'll be sure to buy it.

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If they ever release official DDN Grim&Gritty i'll be sure to buy it.


+1
I never used the grim and gritty rules your talking about (but I'll look to find them, anyone got a link?) and if there good I'd lobby to get them in as a rules module, ofc.

+1
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
I also really like the E6 / E8 rulesets from ENWORLD, thats perfect for creating the low magic fantasy non-wuxa world more akin to Tolken I really want to run. Really hope they have a rules module for max level settings using hero-spells or ritual magic ala AU for the higher level spells. 
 
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
Here are grim&gritty rules for all of you who would like to read them. 
www.silentdrift.net/cb/dnd/hood_gng_hp_r... 

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damn, that is friggin lethal even a low level spell can kill you even if you make your save... think thats even too much for me and I like high (er) lethality games.
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
damn, that is friggin lethal even a low level spell can kill you even if you make your save... think thats even too much for me and I like high (er) lethality games.



Yes,spell are mean. Fighters cant just shrug magic missiles like they are mosquito bites. But on the other side,wizards are even squishier than before. They tend to have low Con and no armor and that means no DR. This makes players think who they fight and how they fight. It's mean,deadly, Grim&Gritty ;)

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It's definitely not Hero Points.

It really worked well in the Ravenloft setting. Hunting down a vampire with its 2 thrills was truly scary.
I don't want it all the time, but I'd love options that made that style of game possible.

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An obvious 'gritty' style is to build monsters as if they were on-level PCs (keep some pregens handy).
The chance of survival for either side is essententially 50/50.
It's definitely not Hero Points. It really worked well in the Ravenloft setting. Hunting down a vampire with its 2 thrills was truly scary.



I used it too in my Ravenloft meets Call of Cthulhu campaign. Players loved that feeling of dread and their own mortality. Monsters are realy monstruos. Beside Ravenloft it works wonders in Dark Sun so if you like it,try it. I recomend it. In classic Forgotten Realms it's not that good. Too many overpowerd npcs. 

P.S. I hate FR and am realy biased when talking about that setting.  

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I played in a FR campaign in college. Lasted about 3 years.

Everyone but me knew all the lore and whatever. I felt like I had homework just trying to understand whys character cared about this NPC or that cult.

It was like a burger made of bread and meat and nothing else. Everyone knew to being their own produce and condiments but me.
Love the grim and gritty genre.  Keeps the game dangerous.
Every player should participate in at least 1 G&G campaign in their gaming life. It creates a new perspective and opens you up to a completely different playing mentality. I enjoy the hell out of those rules, but I can see why someone wouldn't, but I'd still recommend trying them on for size, if for no other reason than to think a different way and be able to bring that experience to another game.