Hexblade vs. Berserker for extra party role

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In a party that already has an assassin and a fighter in the party (along with a wizard and a cleric), which class would add more to the party? The pure striker Hexblade or the dual power source berserker?
Before the ball gets rolling I might as well ask why you chose those 2 classes and are you set on choosing one or the other? Both classes have versions that work better at their chosen roles and fit the same thematic niche. Try posting what you are looking for as a player and maybe we can give you some better suggestions.
I picked those 2 classes for pure flavor and RP opportunities. I am pretty set on those because they fit the types of characters I want to play in this campaign. However, all things being equal, I would like to play whichever class adds more to the party and makes them mechanically stronger. I like the idea of a hexblade being a slick swashbuckling duelist type with a dark streak while the berserker is an honorable, disciplined, and skilled warrior who can dig deep and rise to the occasion when necessary.
well if you're looking from an optimization point of view the hexblade is probably one of the worst classes in the entire edition if you're looking at any kind of leveling past mid heroic.  I don't recommend playing the class unless it's a concept that you believe is truly interesting AND you don't mind being eclipsed by the other players once you reach late heroic - early paragon.

The berserker uses stances which can be interesting and has a primal source.  However the berserker is a defender and you already have a fighter in the party.  Would you possibly be interested in playing the Barbarian instead ?  Same stuff but a dedicated striker which sounds more like what you might need.  The other downfall of the berserker is that you always start in a specific stance which means you have to use your powers to switch stances which costs you your first round of every encounter.  It's stupid and if possible ask your DM to allow you to start in the other stance if you want.

EDIT: Furthermore what you're describing as your vision of what the classes are is really all about fluff.  You can apply it to almost any character concept.  The dark swashbuckler thing could be applied to any class that can use a shield or even any character concept who uses a feat to grab the ability to wield one for example.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

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What do you mean by the berserker using stances? You mean his defender aura? Or do you mean the switch between defender and striker?
the switch between the defender stance and the striker stance.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

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I thought your fury automatically ended at the end of every encounter, means you automatically revert back to defender stance. So basically, you enter every fight as a defender and then you choose whether to go striker or not.
and that's exactly the problem since you can't switch whenever you want.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

baseline barbarian fits your concept just as well as the berserker does, and has a lot more going for it, that sort of thing is more flavor than anything else anyway, don't worry too much about marrying concept to mechanics, like Noctaem is saying, the Berserker can't swap roles back to defender so it lacks the versatility it ought to bring and instead is just a substandard striker that begins the fight as an extraneous defender - since you have a fighter present better to take the barbarian that is mechanically a striker all along and use the dig deep idea for your rage dailies
I looked at the baseline barbarian and I hate the idea of a character carrying a big 2 hander. I don't like that at all and I know the class can't work without it. One of the things I liked about the berserker is that I could go sword and shield and still get a damage bonus for when I needed to be a striker.
Your party lacks a striker, you want to play a defender. You have an impass. If you don't want to use a 2 hander and fill the striker role you could look at two weapon ranger or rogue. That's about it. Berzerker is barbarian if you take away all it's striker feature(s?) so you will struggle to keep up with an average fighter build in damage. I would recommend the Ranger and just take two weapon defense and reflavor your off hand weapon as a shield. thats about the best I can think of within your restrictions. Strikers are pretty much defined by their weapon choice and shield says you are not really a striker.
Unless it's a spiked shield?
rogue has a lot of feat support and class features that give it the swashbuckler feel you're after while still fulfilling its role as striker
I picked those 2 classes for pure flavor and RP opportunities.

*pained wince*

The answer here is always going to be to play neither of those classes. Choose a mechanically solid class and refluff to your liking. You can apply flavor regardless of -- you know what? Nevermind.

Play a Berserker like you want to. If fights take too long, ask your DM to reduce monster HP by 25% to speed up the game and make things more fun. I'm sure the assassin will appreciate it too.
like Erachima points out, there's nothing stopping you from making a barbarian using two weapons or even a weapon and shield.  Nothing in the barbarian requires a two handed weapon.  It's just that two-handed weapons usually have the largest dice.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

I picked those 2 classes for pure flavor and RP opportunities.

*pained wince*

The answer here is always going to be to play neither of those classes. Choose a mechanically solid class and refluff to your liking. You can apply flavor regardless of -- you know what? Nevermind.

Play a Berserker like you want to. If fights take too long, ask your DM to reduce monster HP by 25% to speed up the game and make things more fun. I'm sure the assassin will appreciate it too.

I love DnD condescension.
I picked those 2 classes for pure flavor and RP opportunities.

*pained wince*

The answer here is always going to be to play neither of those classes. Choose a mechanically solid class and refluff to your liking. You can apply flavor regardless of -- you know what? Nevermind.

Play a Berserker like you want to. If fights take too long, ask your DM to reduce monster HP by 25% to speed up the game and make things more fun. I'm sure the assassin will appreciate it too.

I love DnD condescension.



I don't think it was meant to be seen that way.  His point is really that you should play what you want and if you have trouble with the party you can ask your DM to lower the monster HP to compensate.  And like I pointed out earlier, you can refluff anything to be what you want.  I want to shoot fireballs from my hands at all times, just refluff my longbow which uses fire arrows !  It's all within the imagination of the person playing the character. 
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Yeah, that is great advice. Thanks.
I thought your fury automatically ended at the end of every encounter, means you automatically revert back to defender stance. So basically, you enter every fight as a defender and then you choose whether to go striker or not.



The basic problem is that your absolute best powers turn off your aura. So either you're being way tactically sub-optimal by not activating them asap or you're losing your Defender potential right off the bat. Neither of which is a great outcome compared to simply playing a Defender or Striker in the first palce.
I love DnD condescension.


Noct had it right. I'm just tired of "refluff!" "I don't want to!" arguments that don't get anywhere. Sometimes optiization just isn't the answer. D&D is flexible enough to be fun with any type of party as long as the DM is willing to work with you and the PCs are all at about the same power level. This kind of game is outside the scope of Charop though because we have to use a "tofu DM" baseline to compare things.

If your primary considerations for class is fluff and RP, you're probably not going to be satisfied with the advice you'll be given here. So I was trying to offer an alternative solution that might work better with your style.
Point taken. Berserker is out. So now I turn to why are hexblades considered so bad? Is their striker feature of just flat added damage that bad? There is no way to turn the hexblade into a competent striker?

I just whipped up a level 2 Fey Hexblade who has a Owlbear pet through the theme and has silvery glow feat. He can pump out 1D10+13 damage every single turn which seems pretty good at level 2. Is it an issue of scaling poorly or just mechanically broken from the get go that dooms a hexblade?
At will damage is all fine and dandy (although you have not factored in if you are going to hit with your damage there), but what makes a striker is their nova.  Rangers and to a lesser degree rogues and barbarians are so far ahead on the nova game, that other strikers just have trouble comparing.
So a hexblade is acceptable DPR but way behind in alpha strike potential? Like Avengers or something? As for my hexblade, he's sitting at +10 to hit at level 2, which is pretty good I think.
So a hexblade is acceptable DPR but way behind in alpha strike potential? Like Avengers or something? As for my hexblade, he's sitting at +10 to hit at level 2, which is pretty good I think.



Hexblades are good at low levels.  Their main problem is the lack of power selection, poor scaling in paragon and lack of multi-attacks.  You just can't dish out enough attacks to compete with other classes in terms of nova potential.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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The only way to op a hexblade is the Charge package.  And there's only one hexblade that has the opportunity to get a bit better than a classless charger, and that's Fey Pact.  There are a few ways to get stronger effects and a few discounts:  staff expertise for reach, mba does cold damage natively, +3/d10 light blade is a very strong baseline weapon (accuracy can get stupid high in paragon).  Basic build is getting a Rogue multiclass and going for Surprising Charge and all the other light blade support.

You won't be anywhere remotely close to DPR King numbers.  You need multiattacks, and hexblades don't have any.  The optimization ceiling is considerably lower than a charging Barbarian, but higher than many other charge-favored classes.  It's a solid choice, at worst middle of the pack.  Optimal?  No.  But good enough for most games.

If you don't want to build a striker, you can take Gloom pact and make a melee controller.  Reach 3 MBAs that slide and prone can get kind of silly if you have a Warlord or something in the party.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
The hexblade is more competative if you have a warlord as they have one of the strongest MBAs in the game.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
The real problem is that it combines all that sucking at its job with a lack of in-play options that make it also be really, really boring. Warlocks at least can get some decent curse and feat support.


One thing that can help is making it a Pixie.  Flight adds a whole lot of capability to the round-to-round decision making, which helps paint over the whole "I charge....again..." aspect.

That said, we're getting into the personal preference arena here, and only the OP can speak to that.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
A Hexblade is basically a Warlock who has traded away Warlock's Curse, and all of its amazing support (Feats, Items) for a decent MBA replacement that has Weapon and Implement keywords for some shennanigans, and an always-on damage bonus.

Fine in Heroic, but in Paragon you'll start realizing you're missing a LOT of that Curse support.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
I've built a paragon hexblade that I think partially addresses some of the criticisms I'm seeing in this thread.  You can find it here.  I posted it last night and asked for a PEACH, but so far the only two substantive comments question its legality.  (It uses paragon multiclassing to poach Dual Weapon Attack, as in erachima's Mia build.)

I'm sure it's still not as good as Mia or optimized rangers / rogues / barbarians, especially in epic tier, but it is a multi-attacker, so I'd suspect that it's at least decent through paragon tier.  Anyway, I'd appreciate any feedback on the build.

Sorry to hijack this thread.