4/10/2013 Uncharted Realms

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Uncharted Realms, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I like it....

After Vorel broke my EDH heart i needed something like this....
The abilities of the card itself are interesting.


How in the hell is Teysa, a human, previously a 3 mana 2/3, now a 7 mana 4/4?  That makes so little sense, and ruins an interesting design and what was a good chance at printing a popular card.  This is Teysa in name only. 
i'm disappointed by the card overall but i'll run her in my casual reanimator deck all the same since I'm a fan of the character. WotC has left a bad taste in my mouth after this though.

As for the article I loved it!
Yeah, everybody is saying about what I came here to say. I am a big fan of Teysa as a character, and this doesn't feel quite right for her, although its a decently good card. The article, however, was great!

But most importantly, the art here is amazing! Maybe its just me, but I'm a big fan of seeing different styles on card art. Style guides are good to follow to a point, but the painterly qualities of the art in this card are refreshing when compared to all these modern cards with the same hyper-fidelity digitally painted pieces. I would personally love to see even more variety, but the guys at Wizard branding probably don't want that (booo!)
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Wow, what a terrible version of Teysa. Somebody explain how this version makes sense at all.
There is nothing that is not awesome about this card. Nothing.
And I fail to see how this card is nonsensical.

... Why you no happy?
 

"I will diminish, and go into the west, and there remain SgtPepperjack. Y'know, you really ought to come along with me."

www.nogoblinsallowed.com

The only part I dont understand is that she is a 4/4 now....

Other than that.... its really good....

If you expected a reprint of the original, something that harkens back to her first ability, you're going to be disappointed.
However, that said, this version of the card is still quite good. Mana cost is a little high but she nukes anything that nicks you, and if you're playing Orzhov, well, life-loss is shouldn't be too much of an issue. (Assuming that by turn seven you're casting two mana spells with five extort triggers.)((Fun times))

Teysa can kill Obzedat if they decide to backstab her. I think that's the flavor behind her abilities.
Hah! I knew it! Some of the champions are working against the guild leaders!
Uncharted realms is fantastic as usual but Teysa should not be a 4/4. The story makes her seem old and fragile, the card abilities make her seem like some kind of beast, and the art makes her seem like an Orzhov guild champion. They should all line up.
Awesome story!

But yeah I agree with people about the card, a 4/4 human advisor? She's a really cool character but the card doesn't fit.

Also, so there's going to be an orzhov-boros alliance, so that means Dimir will be allied with either izzet, golgari, simic, rakdos or (god forbid) azorius. If the enemy color guild + friend color guild example of Borzhov is the default, then that means either izzet, golgari or simic, and I'd be happy with all of them.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
... to a trusted Dimir contact ...

I lol'd
Abbot Pheldy OSM Mafia Awards 2010 Most Unique Playstyle Designer of Game of the Year 2010 Designer of Most Flavorful Game My achievements random hum
You do Teysa great justice in your writing; please, Mr. Lee, write a novel!

The card is awesome too.
There is nothing that is not awesome about this card. Nothing.



The mana cost? I would never, ever pay 7 for a 4/4 unless it had some really good ability that helped me win the game. Wiining =/= Not losing. Teysa does the latter, not the former.

And what about the abilities working against each other? She's a great blocker which triggers off your opponent's creatures getting through. That's somewhat self-contradictory.

And I fail to see how this card is nonsensical.



It's Teysa Karlov. She's a woman with a crippled leg. She's smart, resourceful and able to get what she wants. She is not Xena, the warrior princess who charges into combat on top of her trusty battle-thrull Robert.

Does the person depicted in the art seem like a warrior to you?

... Why you no happy?



Well, personally, there is absolutely no appeal in this card for me whatsoever. Since I like Teysa as a character, that makes me sad.
Awesome story!

But yeah I agree with people about the card, a 4/4 human advisor? She's a really cool character but the card doesn't fit.

Also, so there's going to be an orzhov-boros alliance, so that means Dimir will be allied with either izzet, golgari, simic, rakdos or (god forbid) azorius. If the enemy color guild + friend color guild example of Borzhov is the default, then that means either izzet, golgari or simic, and I'd be happy with all of them.



It's been confirmed that at the prerelease, your secret ally will be from the opposite set of your chosen guild. Which means that Borzhov is impossible. Which means that either the prerelease or this story cannot be canon.

Not a fan of this Teysa either. I like the Holy Mantle and the connection to Spirit-making, but I wish it'd been toned down and the mana cost reduced to match. WB already has a disgustingly high-costed Commander in Vish Kal! Considering her first two abilities make opponents not want to swing with creatures anyway, she just seems like a giant lightning rod for removal spells.
I don't really see the synergy with extort here.

not really, unless those spirits are somehow casted and can be tapped for W/B 
Wait... I'm confused. Is Teysa the Orzhov maze runner? Does she still have her genetic/magical condition that causes her pain when walking and petty much cripples her?
This might be explained somewhere in the novels, I haven't read the Ravnica ones yet...

Also... A blush? This is easily a different Teysa than the one from the Ravnica novels.
There is nothing that is not awesome about this card. Nothing.



The mana cost? I would never, ever pay 7 for a 4/4 unless it had some really good ability that helped me win the game. Wiining =/= Not losing. Teysa does the latter, not the former.

And what about the abilities working against each other? She's a great blocker which triggers off your opponent's creatures getting through. That's somewhat self-contradictory.

And I fail to see how this card is nonsensical.



It's Teysa Karlov. She's a woman with a crippled leg. She's smart, resourceful and able to get what she wants. She is not Xena, the warrior princess who charges into combat on top of her trusty battle-thrull Robert.

Does the person depicted in the art seem like a warrior to you?

... Why you no happy?



Well, personally, there is absolutely no appeal in this card for me whatsoever. Since I like Teysa as a character, that makes me sad.



What the heck kind of arguments are these? You pay 7 mana for any card that helps you win the game. Malestrom is pretty popular and he's more expensive, but without using other cards you cannot determine the cascade targets, and thus the viability of the card is dependant on a lucksack. Yet, it's still quite strong. So, too, is Kaervek, Vish Kal, etc. Teysa can block almost anything, is unblockable, can do both each turn, and heavily dissuades attack you. You don't use HER, alone, to win the game, she helps your deck win, and is thus better at being a GENERAL, rather than the WIN-CON.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
I feel bad for the author. He wrote a nice piece and then wizards followed it with an embarrassingly bad card design.
What the heck kind of arguments are these? You pay 7 mana for any card that helps you win the game. Malestrom is pretty popular and he's more expensive, but without using other cards you cannot determine the cascade targets, and thus the viability of the card is dependant on a lucksack. Yet, it's still quite strong. So, too, is Kaervek, Vish Kal, etc. Teysa can block almost anything, is unblockable, can do both each turn, and heavily dissuades attack you. You don't use HER, alone, to win the game, she helps your deck win, and is thus better at being a GENERAL, rather than the WIN-CON.



There are other ways of playing than EDH. A lot of people play these and not EDH.

I know, it's rather incredible.
This teysa is useless in all but the most casual EDH, and comparing it to maelstrom wanderer is just laughable.
Lets make the card random and cost a lot of mana but have a powerfull (if random) effect so people can play it in commander!

Commander you ruined the card I was most exited to see out of this set.. I was expecting a 3 or 4 mana creature which wasnt a bomb on herself but could create some nice synerchy. The old teysa was awesome, this is just RANDOM.
Commander you ruined the card I was most exited to see out of this set.. I was expecting a 3 or 4 mana creature which wasn't a bomb on herself but could create some nice synergy. The old teysa was awesome, this is just RANDOM.



I think this is pretty much my thoughts, and a lot of people seem to be dissappointed. I don't see how Teysa is supposed to be a combat master. A weak body (about 1/3) at 3 cmc with some cool grindy effect that could slowly take over the game is what I wanted to see. Maybe an attempt to make extort constructed competitive by giving it extort, extort, extort. And preferably some other minor grindy ability. If triple extort would be too much with that ability, then drop down to double extort.

But the story was nicely written and an enjoyable read. Thanks.

OMG how many years in game has it been since the last guild pact was signed? People change and wouldn't you be starved for affection if everyone feared you too much to want to be a close friend to you?
I agree a 4/4 is a bit much for her but lets look at it like this, she is not human, she is an immortal creature that age so slow it doesn't matter. She commanded dragons and fought in battles. Anything less than a 3/3 would be an insult. Look at it this way a searing spear or lightening bolt will not kill her, Unless they use two, which means she is not as easy (doomblade doesn't work) to get rid of once shes on the field. Btw just cause she has high mana cost doesn't mean you cant summon her early, or did everyone forget crypt fiend.......
Also can you summon her from the graveyard quicker using cheaper reanimate spells but wait your playing a black/white deck anyway! This should be piss easy! You have white mana excel from avacyn, you have black mana excel from gatecrash, you can summon her earlier than you assume.
Never insult a card, someone worked hard to make it, yes there are better cards, if you don't like it just say your dissapointed. One of my favourite hobbies is making decks that use terrible cards. I own a tin-pin alley deck that survives on that card.
If you draw her from a pack and don't want her then you can send it to me, I will gladly take her off your hands.
IMAGE(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a637/Duke-Daemon/impurple_zps3e279094.jpg)
What the heck kind of arguments are these? You pay 7 mana for any card that helps you win the game. Malestrom is pretty popular and he's more expensive, but without using other cards you cannot determine the cascade targets, and thus the viability of the card is dependant on a lucksack. Yet, it's still quite strong. So, too, is Kaervek, Vish Kal, etc. Teysa can block almost anything, is unblockable, can do both each turn, and heavily dissuades attack you. You don't use HER, alone, to win the game, she helps your deck win, and is thus better at being a GENERAL, rather than the WIN-CON.



There are other ways of playing than EDH. A lot of people play these and not EDH.

I know, it's rather incredible.



It is rather incredible, and rather enjoyable. So much so that -- as MaRo's article this week explains -- that the legendary creatures for Return to Ravnica Block have been designed with a specific nod towards EDH, not merely SOME of them. In this way, it is problematic to merely evaluate this creature for a format that will attempt to eschew anything that costs 5 or more unless IT -- and it alone -- can win you the game. If someone starts comparing this card in that way, then you have no reason to object: This card is not for you.

If they feel a card should be pushed for competitive, Standard/Modern play, then sure you have room to complain ... but at its cost, it is clearly not designed for formats of that stripe.

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
With what we know presently, it is definitely a casual and not competitve card. It might change with the forthcoming cards.
For 7 mana one would expect a win-con like Angel of Serenity.
This is a casual card, I wasn't playing around Ravnica so I don't know much about the original Teysa thus the fact doesn't bother me that she's a 4/4.
The abilities are not relevant in the current meta as when you drop her at 7 mana, you are probably already dead to an aggro deck.
It will fit into the Boundless Realms/Diabolic Revelation deck nicely though. Or can be ramped out with the Verdant Haven/Greenside Watcher combo in G/W/B. But when G/R aggro or Naya Humans attack for 10 on turn 3, she is a no-no. If you must reanimate something, it should be AoS not this as aggro decks will hapily swing by and kill you after the turn it came into play.

The story is great, with just the right admount of reference to the Guildpact novel to make it enjoyable by everyone while triggering nostalgia to the one who read the novel; this Teysa thinks, acts and speaks just like the old one: she's frank and doesn't beat around the bush, she's ambitious, fiercely independent but not unscrupulous.


Well done Adam, well done.



The card


...the card. Well, it's powerful but probably won't dominate the format (it's not a mytic rare, after all). 


It has no synergy with extort but the flavor is amazing. The best advokist of the plane and now matron of the Orzhov syndicate is not to be attacked lightly: she'll drag you to court, have you executed and enslave your ghost as payment for the damage; on the other hand she has total impunity for committing the same violation (after all, "The Book of Orzhov is nothing more than a web of rules, regulations and complications that can be interpreted by anyone to mean anything that individual whishes").


She's a 4/4; I guess the power granted by the Orzhov blood grows with aging, so it makes sense that she got stronger and thougher from the last time we saw her.


The mana cost is high. I'm not going to say "too high": I'm not qualified to judge the work of several teams of professionists, and I guess this is the result of intensive testing and hard choices. Would the card be too powerful at 6? Or as a 2/4 for 5? Who knows. Would we like it more or hate it more? Who knows.


This card probably took a lot of work: the second version of a popolar character, central for the story, sets very high, unrealistic expectations.


So I guess I like the card, and I hope the high CMC won't prevent it to see the amount of play it deserves.

All I really thought of when I saw the card was, "Interesting take on Dread."

Mana cost is probably too high to be playable, especially seriously competitively... but I do seem to remember a few Dreads floating around back in the day. I wouldn't be shocked if I saw this in a decklist or two, honestly.

Not expecting to, but wouldn't be stunned. Especially in the era of Reanimator -- though I don't think she's the best target, so don't think I'm claiming so.

I just don't buy into 6+ CMC human characters... It just doesn't fit the flavor whatsoever for me.  Konda, Lord of Eiganjo is very similar.


Power level-wise, she's obviously overcosted. Would be perfectly fine at 6 mana and definitely not overpowered even at 5 (probably wouldn't be better than Obzedat anyway). I hate when they do that.



Loved the story though.

Well, I don't know much about the story, and I play a lot of EDH, so this card seems pretty cool. Doubtful that it will do much in standard, but that's fine with me.
Why the boob window in her top? And she sure doesn't look like an old, crippled lady to me. If you're wondering why more women don't play Magic, you might find a clue in some of the artwork.
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The Orzhov do use magic to drastically extend their lifespans. It's not a stretch to say that she is a lot older than she looks.
tijmenndg asked: Hi Mark, Could you explain why some (puny) humans have P/T scores of 3/3? In them olden days, an Hill Giant was 3/3 and a valliant knight with a lifetime of training was 2/2. Now we have medics (!) that out-prowess them. I think that development is souring the creative flavor in favor of balance. Can we please have p/t scores in the future that feel right?

We’ve realized over the years that humans need to have a little more breadth than 1/1 to 2/2. They are the creature type we do more than any other and we need more room to play with.



They've decided that keeping humans small is just limiting their design of cards, and I don't think its unreasonable that a human with powerful magic, I don't think there's any reason somone as ancient and powerful as Teysa couln't take on some incredibly powerful monsters. Remember, Teysa is really old at this point (well over 100 I believe, as at least that much time has passed since the past Ravnica Block, right?) so a lifetime spent pursuing power could certainly lead to such a powerful person. The 4/4 shouldn't be bothersome.

OMFG what the hell is this? Cry

i like teysa since i saw her in guildpact. I was specting during gatecrash previews to see her once again, hoping this time she will become a playable card that people remember.
And after the waiting this... if there is a god in the heaven rework it PLEASE!!!!!!

A 4/4 for seven mana, we return to LEGENDS? 

thanks for killing my Hopes guys
The greatest sin this card commits is that its not even great in EDH. Consider you tap out and play her...then what? Her ability triggers off of you taking damage; against a voltron like Bruna, she does NOTHING since you will die before the ability even triggers. Against combo...she is not disruptive at all. She is not a combo pieve by herself, she is not even really all that aggressive (6 attacks to win does not make for a good time).

Compare her to another WB for 7 mana: Vish Kal, when you tap out for Vish, you can immediately use him as a  sac outlet and/or removal. Original Teysa even acts as an awesome and extrememly efficient engine without being OP. 

7 mana is just too damn much, 6 can be tolerated and 5 would probably be too powerful, but even then, the nature of her second ability puts the decision in your opponents court, when your opponent gets  to decide if you can win, its never good. Being in BW, its not even realistic for you to be able to force your opponents to attack. Hell Michiko Konda is better than this, though only because it costs so much less. 
It is rather incredible, and rather enjoyable.



That's definitely subjective. I find EDH to be rather dull. Mostly because a large segment on the playerbase seems to think that it's the ONE TRUE PATH. Which is annoying.

If someone starts comparing this card in that way, then you have no reason to object: This card is not for you.

If they feel a card should be pushed for competitive, Standard/Modern play, then sure you have room to complain ... but at its cost, it is clearly not designed for formats of that stripe.



But that's the thing. It's Teysa Karlov. This is a beloved character within the novels. There is no reason why they couldn't have made her for every format. They can do that on occasion. It's difficult, but with this particular character, they should have done it.

Regardless, this card was made for me. There was no reason to make Teysa the Orzhov champ if they didn't wanna appeal to story fans. I happened to like Guildpact.  So I am within the subset of players that this was made for. And I am saying that even if I was making an EDH deck, the one thing that you claim this was designed for, I'd have many better options. So no. Swing and a miss. Bad.
Yikes, this card reads like such an amateur design to me. The abilities don't seem to have any cohesion at all - why vigilance? Why pro-creatures? Mechanically, this card falls incredibly flat for me. I may be completely wrong, and I will have to play with it to be sure, but it feels like just another "giant threat that demands an answer", and that sequence of play is only interesting for so long. Basically, I wish there was a little more cohesion, this felt very amateur.
This is an outrage! What have you done to Teysa? Who desinged this trash? I demand answers.
Old and new (or is it young and old) Teysa on the battlefiled together = fun in my book!
Casual Teysa deck (maybe with a splash of B/W Sorin) is in my future for certain.
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