Mage of the Arcane Order

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Bit of a newb with a question.

I have figured out how to create my character, pick my inventory and such, but am a bit stuck when it comes to a Prestige Class.

I am playing a Halfing Sorcerer and am looking at the Mage of the Arcane order as my Prestige class.  My purpose is that I want access to as many spells known and spells cast as possible.  If I understood what I was reading the Mage of the Arcane order Spell Pool ability gives me access to extra spells beyond my spells known. (yes I have read understood the Debt system).

Also I am looking to be as destructive as possible (there are way too many books to read so I am restricting myself to the Spell Compendium and the PHB) unless someone has a suggestion to something else.

Assuming I am understanding all the charts I get the following "Known" spells
Lvl0=9, Lvl1-2=5, Lvl3-5=4, Lvl6-9=3
As we just started at Level 1 I have picked out the following spells (yes I like to be prepared rather than waste time during game).
Level 0:
Acid Splash - PHB
Daze - PHB
Light - PHB
Ray of Frost - PHB
Electric Jolt - Spc - 78
Silent Portal - Spc
Detect Magic - PHB
Touch of Fatigue - PHB
Mending - PHB

Level 1:
Grease - PHB
Ray of Flame - Spc
Magic Missile - PHB
Ord of Fire, Lesser - Spc
Ice Dagger - Spc

Level 2:
Flamedagger - Spc
Ray of Ice - Spc
Scorch - Spc
Melfs Acid Arrow - PHB
Belker Claws - Spc

Level 3:
Fireball - PHB
Lightning Bolt - PHB
Ice Lance - Spc
Chain Missile - Spc

As my initial Feat I chose "Eschew Materials"
The other feats I am considering are:
Extra Spell - CArc 79 (complete arcane)
Chain Spell - CArc 76
Split Ray - CArc 83
Ranged Spell Spec - CArc 82
Empower Spell - PHB 93
Maximize Spell - PHB 97 (if I read this right it does stack with Empower Spell)
Quicken Spell - PHB 98
First, welcome to the game.

Second, while there's absolutely nothing wrong with planning ahead (it's kind of the default assumption), I'd suggest looking into the wonderful resources already compiled on the game rather than stumbling around. You've hit up a couple of "traps" (things that look decent but really aren't) already, such as Eschew Materials and Quicken Spell (the latter is a great feat, but sorcerers flat-out can't use it).

Third, I'm not sure how you're reading the sorcerer spells known table; generally speaking I'd suggest building to a character level and not a spell level. This has the advantage of syncing up with prestige classes, as you can time your spells known with your feats and your prestige abilities. (In your case, observe that Mage of the Arcane Order requires Cooperative Spell, which itself requires another metamagic feat, and that the Mage requires 8 ranks in Knowledge (so minimum character level 5). If you don't pick a metamagic feat at 1st level, you can't pick up Cooperative Spell at 3rd, and will thus be delayed into getting into Mage of the Arcane Order until character level 9 (since you can't enter a class at the same time you get a prerequisite, you can't grab a Mage level and Cooperative Spell both at 6.)

Fourth, you're also concentrating on damage, which simply put is a losing proposition (enemies gain HP faster than you gain damage, and a spell that doesn't kill or incapacitate an enemy won't actually give you any advantage). For instance, the best spell you've selected on that entire list is Grease - it will cause the most havoc and win the most battles out of all of those! Here's the sort of spells you'd want to look for as a battle mage - note how many of them prevent the enemy from fighting back, and how few of them involve chugging dice for damage.

I hope that helps.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

A) What about Quicken Spell makes it unusable by Sorcerer? (nevermind just reread it and understand now.  As a sorcerer my spells are basically already Quickened since I don't have to prepare them in advance).

B) What mistake am I making in regards to the Spells Known?  It seemed a fairly straight forward chart in the PHB??  Sorry, perhaps I should have been more specific in my original post.  The #'s listed are the Maximum number of spells known I would have upon reaching level 20 (not including any feats or bonus's)

C) I know it is perhaps a losing proposition but for this character and campaign I would like to focus on Damage spells.  Though I do see the advantages to some of the spells listed on your other forum that I may substitute for what I have chosen already.
     I'm thinking a mix of stunning and destruction.  Knock em down, blow em up before they get up.

D) Not fully understanding battle yet so one of my concerns is with Cone or AoE spells and how they would affect my party members if I am not in the right position.

E) Unfamiliar with some of your abreviations in your other post.
Spc = Spell Compendium
PHB2 = Players Handbook 2
BoVD = Book of Vile Darkness??
Cold Outside = ??
HoH = ??
Wet Oustide = ??

F) Is there a different prestige class that you would suggest?  I had looked at Elemental Savant and Archmage (I can't remember what book I found it in now).
I was going to say someone wil be along to explain more things but I see Tempest is already here.  My comments were going to be:

1.  Eschew Materials is almost never a feat worth taking.  Your feat isn't worth a cheap piece of basic equipement especially at that level.  There are plenty of spells you can cast that have no material components to start with which already limits this feat.  If you do have a spell component pouch taken from you it really is no worse then having a warrior's weapons all taken away.

2.  PREREQUISITES.  You need to be aware of them and what they mean.  This is especially true for a Sorcerer trying to enter Mage of the Arcane Order.  You can do it but you need to be able to "Prepare spells" (which is different form "prepare slots") to enter MotAO which is not how Sorcerers cast spells. 

3.  Looking at the spells you want to learn I just ask myself "why isn't he playing a Warmage instead?"  I will not get into the "raw damage isn't so useful" side of things, although it is true, but rather "why have a Sorcerer's potential versatility is spells but then just take damage?"  The spells you pick deal damage.  A Warmage (CArc) spells all deal damage.  A Sorcerer only knows so many spells.  A Warmage knows all the spells on its spell list.  To summarize you have a few spells that basically do the same thing (deal damage) to pick from while a Warmage gets to pick from even more spells to fine tune the damage a bit better.

4.  IIRC the MotAO spell pool is limited to the spells in the PHB.  This is just something to consider and is designed to keep things reasonable so that every new book doesn't add to the available spells.
 
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A) What about Quicken Spell makes it unusable by Sorcerer? (nevermind just reread it and understand now.  As a sorcerer my spells are basically already Quickened since I don't have to prepare them in advance).

B) What mistake am I making in regards to the Spells Known?  It seemed a fairly straight forward chart in the PHB??  Sorry, perhaps I should have been more specific in my original post.  The #'s listed are the Maximum number of spells known I would have upon reaching level 20 (not including any feats or bonus's)

C) I know it is perhaps a losing proposition but for this character and campaign I would like to focus on Damage spells.  Though I do see the advantages to some of the spells listed on your other forum that I may substitute for what I have chosen already.
     I'm thinking a mix of stunning and destruction.  Knock em down, blow em up before they get up.

D) Not fully understanding battle yet so one of my concerns is with Cone or AoE spells and how they would affect my party members if I am not in the right position.

E) Unfamiliar with some of your abreviations in your other post.
Spc = Spell Compendium
PHB2 = Players Handbook 2
BoVD = Book of Vile Darkness??
Cold Outside = ??
HoH = ??
Wet Oustide = ??

F) Is there a different prestige class that you would suggest?  I had looked at Elemental Savant and Archmage (I can't remember what book I found it in now).



A.  For a sorcerer to apply a Metamagic (MM) feat like Quicken he must spell a full round casting the spell.  Normally casting a spell takes a standard action (a little like making a single attack) but while a spontaneous caster can apply MM "on the fly" doing so makes the spell take longer to cast (like taking a full attack action.)

B.  You may not be reading the tables wrong but just writing down all the spells you will eventually know at a given level may not help so much.  There are some spells that a GREAT at 1st-level but which you will want to replace as you gain levels.

D.   Area affects CAN hit party members if they are in the way.  Often, you can find a position that will miss your allies provided there aren't too many involved in the melee.  There are things that can be taken which will create safe spots in AoO spells but most of those are for high levels.  If you use energy damage types you could just make sure your allies aren't harmed by that energy type although this may mean missing some enemies as well.

E.  Cold Outside = Frostburn
  Wet Outside = Stormwrack
  HoH = Heroes of Horror ??

F.  There are LOTS of ways to build a character.  What matters is what you are looking for, how much "optimization" you need/are comfortable with, and also what materials you have access to.
A) What about Quicken Spell makes it unusable by Sorcerer? (nevermind just reread it and understand now.  As a sorcerer my spells are basically already Quickened since I don't have to prepare them in advance).


Nothing of the sort - quicken does nothing to preparation time, it alters casting time. And it says this: "This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action." In other words, if you're trying to cast a spell super-fast, the act of trying makes you cast it super-slow, so you don't gain any benefit from Quicken.

B) What mistake am I making in regards to the Spells Known?  It seemed a fairly straight forward chart in the PHB??  Sorry, perhaps I should have been more specific in my original post.  The #'s listed are the Maximum number of spells known I would have upon reaching level 20 (not including any feats or bonus's)


Building level-by-level lets you know when certain spells come online, so you can plan to have spells that work well together show up at the same level. Furthermore, sometimes a spell is GREAT at lower levels but worthless at higher levels, so it's a choice for a spell swap - and that won't happen if you don't look for it at the level it shows up. (The quintessential examples are Sleep and Color Spray, which end entire battles at low levels but won't work at all on any tough enemies as you go up in level.) Don't go "I can cast 1st level spells and at level 20, I learn X of them, so let me pick X now...", but instead go "I'm planning up to level 7, so I will pick my spells and feats and so on for level 1, then for level 2, then for level 3...". You'll spot synergies and timing much better this way.

C) I know it is perhaps a losing proposition but for this character and campaign I would like to focus on Damage spells.  Though I do see the advantages to some of the spells listed on your other forum that I may substitute for what I have chosen already.
     I'm thinking a mix of stunning and destruction.  Knock em down, blow em up before they get up.


Stunning will matter more than damage, but if you're hooked on damage, there are ways to do it right. And even as a sorcerer!

Be advised that it's a little complex to understand all of what's going on there - you have to do some serious rules mastery just to make "kill it with fire" a good thing. That thread should show you more or less the gold standard in direct-damage sorcerers. 

D) Not fully understanding battle yet so one of my concerns is with Cone or AoE spells and how they would affect my party members if I am not in the right position.


If a spell doesn't say it only affects enemies, then it will hit your allies as well.

E) Unfamiliar with some of your abreviations in your other post.
Spc = Spell Compendium
PHB2 = Players Handbook 2
BoVD = Book of Vile Darkness??
Cold Outside = ??
HoH = ??
Wet Oustide = ??


Yeah, the last couple are Frank being weird. He refuses to refer to Frostburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack, and Cityscape by their own titles, instead calling them Cold Outside, Hot Outside, Wet Outside and Not Outside.  HoH is Heroes of Horror; you're right about the other ones.

F) Is there a different prestige class that you would suggest?  I had looked at Elemental Savant and Archmage (I can't remember what book I found it in now).


There's a lot of good ways to build a sorcerer; StevenO's points are spot on here.


Btw, good call - I forgot that MotAO required spell preparation. You CAN get it (Arcane Preparation feat at level 1), but I forget if MotAO's spellpool will work with uncast spontaneous slots at all (I'm away from my books).

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I don't think I am fully understanding Prestige Class at the moment.

Does a prestige class replace my current class or do I become a multiclass character?

Do I become a level 1 MoTAO or do I become a Socrerer 9th / MoTAO 1st ??
Do I suffer the multiclass penalties when taking a prestige class?
I don't think I am fully understanding Prestige Class at the moment.

Does a prestige class replace my current class or do I become a multiclass character?

Do I become a level 1 MoTAO or do I become a Socrerer 9th / MoTAO 1st ??
Do I suffer the multiclass penalties when taking a prestige class?


In ALL ways it is like multiclassing, with exactly two exceptions.

1) You have to meet requirements to take a level in a prestige class, unlike a base class. (Note: You have to meet the requirements BEFORE you take your first level, so ifyou're taking Cooperative Spell at level 6, you can't also be taking Mage of the Arcane Order.)
2) You NEVER suffer a multiclass penalty for taking levels in prestige classes.

That's it.

Btw, look carefully at the text for spellcasting in Mage of the Arcane Order. It advances an existing class. If you replaced your class - something which is mostly* alien to 3.5's design, by the way - you wouldn't have an existing arcane spellcasting class to advance.


*
I have to say "mostly" here because there's exactly two prestige classes that allow for replacement - Blackguard and Ronin - and those are extremely limited in how they work. Likewise, rebuilding can allow you to exchange class levels around, but that's a totally different ball of wax. By and large, classes are ONLY additive in 3.5, unlike some earlier editions' takes on multi/dual classing.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I don't think I am fully understanding Prestige Class at the moment.

Does a prestige class replace my current class or do I become a multiclass character?

Do I become a level 1 MoTAO or do I become a Socrerer 9th / MoTAO 1st ??
Do I suffer the multiclass penalties when taking a prestige class?


  • Multiclass.

  • A Sorcerer 9 gaining a level in MotAO would become a Sorcerer 9/MotAO1.

  • Not because of the prestige class but you will continue to suffer any XP penalties you've already aquired through multiclassing. 


Prestige Classes (PrCs) are just like any other class except that there are requirement to meet before you can take levels in them and they do not contribute to XP penalties from multiclassing.

Taking a Sorcerer in MotAO requires a relatively specific build.  You need two feats to enter and another feat to prepare spell slots (Arcame Preparation is also in the CArc) so that is three feats plus the skill ranks.  As a Halfling you will need at least six level (Sor6) to meet the requirements for MotAO making 7th-level your earliest entry point as a Sor6/MotAO1.

As for Tempest's question/concern regarding spellpool use and spontaneous casting the CArc just mentions needing an "open, unused spell slot of the appropriate level" which happens to describe all of a Sorcerer's spell slots until a spell is chosen at the time of casting.  In a lot of ways a Sorcerer does have an advantage here because a Wizard would need to prepare the spell slot (which sorcerers also do) but leave it open; now a wizard could fill that slot later with some time but a Sorcerer gets to spontanously fill that slot.  I'd also say that all the slots a Sorcerer gets can also make repaying the Spellpool Debt a lot easier.  Note that the repayment time is based on the characters level in MotAO (this is what class level means here) instead of his character level or even caster level.

MotAO is a way for a Sorcerer to get access to spells he may not normally know but the entry cost is high.  Spontaneous casters can often make good use of Metamagic feats as they add use to any applicable spells known but Cooperative Spell is almost always a "wasted feat" in an adventuring party.  Arcane Preparation can be useful if you KNOW you're going to want to use a MM feat on a certain spell and are willing to tie up a spell slot for it so you can cast it without the normal time increase; note that this feat DOES work with Quicken Spell and would allow you to use Quicken spell provided you prepare them in advance.