The DM's discussion.

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Do you want to discuss your campaign and ideas with other DMs. Got a great idea for a new rule but there's nobody to tell. If so this forum is great for you
Do you want to discuss your campaign and ideas with other DMs. Got a great idea for a new rule but there's nobody to tell. If so this forum is great for you

You know when your doing something in real life and you get out of breath, how about trying this: each players can go up to their constitution score in rounds and then they must make an endururance check at an easy DC.
If they fail they get -2 to attacks. The second time the DC is medium and the faliure penalty is -2 to AC and reflex. Finally the DC is hard and the penalty is a -2 deduction  from speed.

Created by TristanS10
There is a dm subforum. 

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

Do you want to discuss your campaign and ideas with other DMs. Got a great idea for a new rule but there's nobody to tell. If so this forum is great for you

You know when your doing something in real life and you get out of breath, how about trying this: each players can go up to their constitution score in rounds and then they must make an endururance check at an easy DC.
If they fail they get -2 to attacks. The second time the DC is medium and the faliure penalty is -2 to AC and reflex. Finally the DC is hard and the penalty is a -2 deduction  from speed.

Created by TristanS10



how about spell casters or such? I mean tis true about attacks in 4E but ...
You know when your doing something in real life and you get out of breath, how about trying this: each players can go up to their constitution score in rounds and then they must make an endururance check at an easy DC.
If they fail they get -2 to attacks. The second time the DC is medium and the faliure penalty is -2 to AC and reflex. Finally the DC is hard and the penalty is a -2 deduction  from speed.

Created by TristanS10



That rule sounds pointless, unfun, and just a waste of everyone's table time.  How could this possibly improve the game?
DM advice: 1. Do a Session Zero. 2. Start With Action. 3. Always say "Yes" to player ideas. 4. Don't build railroads. 5. Make success, failure, and middling rolls interesting. Player advice: 1. Don't be a dick. 2. Build off each other, don't block each other. 3. You're supposed to be a badass. Act like it. Take risks. My poorly updated blog: http://engineeredfun.wordpress.com/
You know when your doing something in real life and you get out of breath, how about trying this: each players can go up to their constitution score in rounds and then they must make an endururance check at an easy DC.
If they fail they get -2 to attacks. The second time the DC is medium and the faliure penalty is -2 to AC and reflex. Finally the DC is hard and the penalty is a -2 deduction  from speed.

Created by TristanS10



That rule sounds pointless, unfun, and just a waste of everyone's table time.  How could this possibly improve the game?

Says you. I actually kinda like the sound of it. 

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

You know when your doing something in real life and you get out of breath, how about trying this: each players can go up to their constitution score in rounds and then they must make an endururance check at an easy DC.
If they fail they get -2 to attacks. The second time the DC is medium and the faliure penalty is -2 to AC and reflex. Finally the DC is hard and the penalty is a -2 deduction  from speed.

Created by TristanS10



That rule sounds pointless, unfun, and just a waste of everyone's table time.  How could this possibly improve the game?

Says you. I actually kinda like the sound of it. 



What is there to like about it?

When I make a houserule, I ask myself whether:
1. It will fix a problem, or
2. It will make the game more fun

I don't think this houserule does any of that.  This rule doesn't address any problem, and I don't see how gimping PCs after a round or two of combat makes things more fun.  If anything, all it will do is make people frustrated with their characters, throw in more annoying bookkeeping, and contribute to the long grinds of combat.

********************
In terms of houserules, the main one I use is that if you want to harm or steal from another character, the victim gets to decide the result if the action.  This pre-empts anyone having problems with other players being dicks.
DM advice: 1. Do a Session Zero. 2. Start With Action. 3. Always say "Yes" to player ideas. 4. Don't build railroads. 5. Make success, failure, and middling rolls interesting. Player advice: 1. Don't be a dick. 2. Build off each other, don't block each other. 3. You're supposed to be a badass. Act like it. Take risks. My poorly updated blog: http://engineeredfun.wordpress.com/
You know when your doing something in real life and you get out of breath, how about trying this: each players can go up to their constitution score in rounds and then they must make an endururance check at an easy DC.
If they fail they get -2 to attacks. The second time the DC is medium and the faliure penalty is -2 to AC and reflex. Finally the DC is hard and the penalty is a -2 deduction  from speed.

Created by TristanS10



That rule sounds pointless, unfun, and just a waste of everyone's table time.  How could this possibly improve the game?



Seconded.
You know when your doing something in real life and you get out of breath, how about trying this: each players can go up to their constitution score in rounds and then they must make an endururance check at an easy DC.
If they fail they get -2 to attacks. The second time the DC is medium and the faliure penalty is -2 to AC and reflex. Finally the DC is hard and the penalty is a -2 deduction  from speed.

Created by TristanS10



That rule sounds pointless, unfun, and just a waste of everyone's table time.  How could this possibly improve the game?

Says you. I actually kinda like the sound of it. 



What is there to like about it?

When I make a houserule, I ask myself whether:
1. It will fix a problem, or
2. It will make the game more fun

I don't think this houserule does any of that.  This rule doesn't address any problem, and I don't see how gimping PCs after a round or two of combat makes things more fun.  If anything, all it will do is make people frustrated with their characters, throw in more annoying bookkeeping, and contribute to the long grinds of combat.

********************
In terms of houserules, the main one I use is that if you want to harm or steal from another character, the victim gets to decide the result if the action.  This pre-empts anyone having problems with other players being dicks.

For those who like a more realistic edge its just fine. People do get winded in combat. Its not just a never ending slug fest where your just as energetic as when you started. Now that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement  because there is. But you can't just pass a rule off as stupid to everyone just because it doesn't fit your game-ist mindset. 

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

For those who like a more realistic edge its just fine. People do get winded in combat. Its not just a never ending slug fest where your just as energetic as when you started.



I'm not sure how "realistic" it is - even if we assume that "realism" is a good goal.  Given six second rounds, combat rarely lasts even a minute.  Besides, we're talking about badasses here - fit warrior types who can probably last much longer than a minute without getting tired.

It seems to me to be an unnecessary complication in the pursuit of questionable realism - something which tends to be the hallmark of bad houserules.

Now that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement  because there is.



And I don't think this houserule improves the game.  If anything, it makes it less fun - I know I would find this houserule annoying and unfun if I were a player or a DM.

But you can't just pass a rule off as stupid to everyone just because it doesn't fit your game-ist mindset. 



The OP started this thread to "discuss your campaign and ideas with other DMs."  He threw out an idea to discuss, and I'm discussing it.

And my "game-ist mindset"?  If you're referring to GNS theory, you're way off.
DM advice: 1. Do a Session Zero. 2. Start With Action. 3. Always say "Yes" to player ideas. 4. Don't build railroads. 5. Make success, failure, and middling rolls interesting. Player advice: 1. Don't be a dick. 2. Build off each other, don't block each other. 3. You're supposed to be a badass. Act like it. Take risks. My poorly updated blog: http://engineeredfun.wordpress.com/
First off, welcome to the boards TristanS10 & Thac0maniac.

Anyways, with this house rule (used to simulate battle fatigue), characters start to suck after about their Constitution score in combat rounds in one encounter. How many rounds do typical combats last in your games? You would need at least 10 for most characters to even see this take effect; the first people hit by it would be controllers. And how would something like "Second Wind" interact with this, if at all? I'm assuming rounds where you're "Helpless," "Stunned," or otherwise unable to do anything wouldn't count towards this battle fatigue.
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
What if it was instead a bonus to attack and physical skill checks you got at the start of combat that eventually wore off?


Could help speed up combat a bit. 
in my Games With Normaly at least 5 characters in 4E? At about 8 Rounds On Adverage for the normal fight normaly,

but thanks for the welcome  
in my Games With Normaly at least 5 characters in 4E? At about 8 Rounds On Adverage for the normal fight normaly,

but thanks for the welcome  



I think you may find that 8 round combats might be your problem and not what to do for 8 rounds.

Honestly if a combat goes on for more than 3-4 rounds there needs to be some sort of gimmick involved that is making it take that long (multi-phase solo, stage-based skill challenges, action recovery, waved encounters, time loops etc.)

I guess the real question then becomes "Why are your combats lasting 8 rounds?" 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Uh Matyr; sounds like you just robo your monsters. There is more to monsters than "move up, roll for attack, roll for damage", adding in realistic actions and tactics to your fights will make more rounds. My Kobolds regularly hit and retreat, and try to force the PC's to run right into a trap. This can cause fights to last quite a bit longer. It is also not uncommon for the PC's to use similar tactics against the enemies forcing stronger foes to chase after them into a trap that they have laid for them. Again, longer fights.

Edit: I was not kidding when i said that i killed a group of level 20 characters with a small handful of unleveled kobolds. 
Uh Matyr; sounds like you just robo your monsters. There is more to monsters than "move up, roll for attack, roll for damage", adding in realistic actions and tactics to your fights will make more rounds. My Kobolds regularly hit and retreat, and try to force the PC's to run right into a trap. This can cause fights to last quite a bit longer. It is also not uncommon for the PC's to use similar tactics against the enemies forcing stronger foes to chase after them into a trap that they have laid for them. Again, longer fights.

Edit: I was not kidding when i said that i killed a group of level 20 characters with a small handful of unleveled kobolds. 



My combats are very fluid and my monsters do use tactics.  I think you might be unaware of what optimization is...
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Do you want to discuss your campaign and ideas with other DMs. Got a great idea for a new rule but there's nobody to tell. If so this forum is great for you

You know when your doing something in real life and you get out of breath, how about trying this: each players can go up to their constitution score in rounds and then they must make an endururance check at an easy DC.
If they fail they get -2 to attacks. The second time the DC is medium and the faliure penalty is -2 to AC and reflex. Finally the DC is hard and the penalty is a -2 deduction  from speed.

Fatigue factors are an old idea.  They can be fiddly and un-fun, though.

I think it would be better to reserve this sort of thing for Skill Challenges or mixed combat/skill-challenge scenarios, such as defending a siege for hours or days on end.  I'd also consider using healing surges, rather than penalties, to track exhaustion (one option is to combine them - spend a surge, or take a penalty, or take a penalty until you spend an action or a number of rounds 'recovering' & spend a surge),

5e really needs something like Wrecan's SARN-FU to support "Theatre of the Mind."

"You want The Tooth?  You can't handle The Tooth!"  - Dahlver-Nar.

"If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly"  - E. Gary Gygax

 

 

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Sorry
I just have a really hard time finding DM's to talk with soI decided to make this so that I might be able to discuss certain adventures or idea with other DM's without it getting to crowded.
What if it was instead a bonus to attack and physical skill checks you got at the start of combat that eventually wore off?


Could help speed up combat a bit. 

good idea
Uh Matyr; sounds like you just robo your monsters. There is more to monsters than "move up, roll for attack, roll for damage", adding in realistic actions and tactics to your fights will make more rounds. My Kobolds regularly hit and retreat, and try to force the PC's to run right into a trap. This can cause fights to last quite a bit longer. It is also not uncommon for the PC's to use similar tactics against the enemies forcing stronger foes to chase after them into a trap that they have laid for them. Again, longer fights.

Edit: I was not kidding when i said that i killed a group of level 20 characters with a small handful of unleveled kobolds. 

lol
unfortunatly my players are just about as unimaginative as they get
Uh Matyr; sounds like you just robo your monsters. There is more to monsters than "move up, roll for attack, roll for damage", adding in realistic actions and tactics to your fights will make more rounds. My Kobolds regularly hit and retreat, and try to force the PC's to run right into a trap. This can cause fights to last quite a bit longer. It is also not uncommon for the PC's to use similar tactics against the enemies forcing stronger foes to chase after them into a trap that they have laid for them. Again, longer fights.

Edit: I was not kidding when i said that i killed a group of level 20 characters with a small handful of unleveled kobolds. 

lol
unfortunatly my players are just about as unimaginative as they get

Plus I live in australia and I'm not a very good DM anyway.
I have a horrible habit of improvisation and not planning ahead
If only maps a tiles were more avaliable here my combat might not be so bad
Thanks for the advice.
I don't know anybody else personaly who plays dnd so recieving your comments and ideas was helpful.
PS. does anybody have any ideas on how to recruit people to dnd because I only have 2 other players
Firstly, ask everyone you know - it might surprise you who is up for playing D&D. Check local hobby shops and see if you can put up a "players wanted" note up there. Failing that, if you're out in public often, I'd recommend reading a big shiny rulebook then; I've had some rousing discussions with people about D&D and RPGs in general because of this, and more than a few requests to get into my weekly game. Oh, there's probably a site or two on the internet for finding local gamers in your neck of the woods.

As far as DMing goes - it just takes some practice. You soon learn what you can improv and what you can't. (My players seem to enjoy the improv far more than heavily pre-planned stuff.) I'd recommend getting a grid for map-making, rather than rely on tiles. Either a wet erase battlemat or an easel pad of grid-ruled paper (my favorite for pre-planned encounters). Here is a relatively cheap, cool wet/dry erase surface.
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
Uh Matyr; sounds like you just robo your monsters. There is more to monsters than "move up, roll for attack, roll for damage", adding in realistic actions and tactics to your fights will make more rounds. My Kobolds regularly hit and retreat, and try to force the PC's to run right into a trap. This can cause fights to last quite a bit longer. It is also not uncommon for the PC's to use similar tactics against the enemies forcing stronger foes to chase after them into a trap that they have laid for them. Again, longer fights.

Edit: I was not kidding when i said that i killed a group of level 20 characters with a small handful of unleveled kobolds. 

lol
unfortunatly my players are just about as unimaginative as they get

Plus I live in australia and I'm not a very good DM anyway.
I have a horrible habit of improvisation and not planning ahead
If only maps a tiles were more avaliable here my combat might not be so bad



I don't plan ahead for 9/10 sessions.  Intentionally.  I don't design monsters, have stat blocks, know the layout of where the party is going or have developed quests or items for the players before I sit down at the table.
I improvise everything intentionally because it keeps me from putting rails on my players.
I don't use dungeon tiles and I rarely use printed maps.  More often than not I just draw up a map on the spot and go from there.

Just have to keep on your toes and adjust. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Uh Matyr; sounds like you just robo your monsters. There is more to monsters than "move up, roll for attack, roll for damage", adding in realistic actions and tactics to your fights will make more rounds. My Kobolds regularly hit and retreat, and try to force the PC's to run right into a trap. This can cause fights to last quite a bit longer. It is also not uncommon for the PC's to use similar tactics against the enemies forcing stronger foes to chase after them into a trap that they have laid for them. Again, longer fights.

Edit: I was not kidding when i said that i killed a group of level 20 characters with a small handful of unleveled kobolds. 



I Have to agree to me in D&D Ive allways used Tactics to mobs and such,  This to me has created a much different perception on D&D then most

For Example Team Play and Endurance on characters is a bigger plus,
Wizards are considerd OP in a single battle but tend to rarely last that way in the next or the one after that.  And eveyone who complained about it I just kinda rolled my eyes pointed that there Hobgoblins and your camping at one of the two main entrances into there Fort,  Of Course there not going to just let you sit there.


I Dont mind killing a player off and such,  To Me I Dont avoid Said wizard just becouse hes not wearing shiny armor.  Theres two tactics in combat.

Kill the biggest meanest looking thing first.  OR Kill the thing that looks the most Squishy.


Due to tactics and multible battles in a day (I Grew up on AD&D Folks i think some of you understand im a bit more hardcore then most common day players/dms) Wizards tend to be looked down on mostly due to most of them doing the whole lets be OP 1 maybe 2 times a day and crap the rest of the day Becouse I thought said DM would allow us to rest in the middle of said dungion with ease.

           XD Becouse of tactics Battles tend to last Longer on both sides of the playing field,  In terms of rounds,  How quickly they go have been known to go by rather quicker then you think.