Hengeyokai, crane speed

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Hello, I have searched through the interwebs to read more about Hengeyokais. Many people say they have a fly speed of 6 sq. in crane form, but the way I read it they only get 4... It says (Nature's Mask, Dragon 404, pg. 8):


"Crane, Sparrow: Your land speed becomes 1, and you gain a fly speed of 1 + half your speed. "

That should be floor(7/2)+1=4 ... Yes? Only the DM part say speed 6 (Nature's Mask, Dragon 404, pg. 7). So what is it?

I also wondered about this line "You otherwise retain your game statistics.", it doesn't explict say that your size becomes tiny when shapeshifting to your animal form, and how about interacting with objects? Not talking about attacking, more from a roleplaying point og view.

Sorry if being a noob asking stupid questions ;) 

Whenever you introduce a new creature, you should be very specific in your descriptions so that players know if this is something for them to fight or have sex with. http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1125
Regardless of what the table for creating new Hengeyokai says, Nature's Mask grant a Crane or Sparrow a Speed of Land 1, Fly 1 + half your speed.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

The self referencing variable seems kinda seems....  not good.

Speed = 1
Fly = .5 * speed + 1  = 1


Heck...  Even if we take the highest speed you have...  say 20.

Fly = .5 * 20 +1 = 11
And now your speed is 11, and your fly speed is half of that so...
Fly = .5 * 11 + 1 = 6
And now your speed is 6, and your fly speed is half of that so...
...
Fly = .5 * 2 + 1 = 2:
We stabalize at 2.  (or 1 if you start at 1).

Surely not RAI, but that's a logical failure.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

They evidently refer to the Hengeyokai's speed 7

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Could increase Hengeyokai's base speed and get a higher fly speed.

But on the topic of interacting with objects? It says you maintain you stats, so that means you can lift your strength x 10 pounds as a crane/sparrow, seems unlogical and wierd if you picture it.
Could increase Hengeyokai's base speed and get a higher fly speed.



   I think the intent is that bonuses and penaties to speed have half the effect on the fly speed.  For example, a Hengeyokai Scout with Boots of Striding, the feat Fleet-Footed and using Aspect of the Soaring Hawk would have a fly speed of 6
   1 + (7 base + 1 item + 1 feat + 2 power)/2 = 1+ 11/2 = 6

Instead of 8
   1 + 7 base/2 + 1 item + 1 feat + 2 power = 8

A slowed character still has land speed of 1 but a fly speed of 2, as 1+2/2 = 2


But on the topic of interacting with objects? It says you maintain you stats, so that means you can lift your strength x 10 pounds as a crane/sparrow, seems unlogical and wierd if you picture it.


     But now we can answer "What is the air speed velocity of a coconut laden swallow, if its actually a Hengeyokai?"

But on the topic of interacting with objects? It says you maintain you stats, so that means you can lift your strength x 10 pounds as a crane/sparrow, seems unlogical and wierd if you picture it.


     But now we can answer "What is the air speed velocity of a coconut laden swallow, if its actually a Hengeyokai?"



Hehe, on such things I miss 3e where powers like this was usually more detailed.

At-will flight at level 1 is to OP IMO RPG wise I think. So I don't think I'll allow the players to play Hengeyokai.
Whenever you introduce a new creature, you should be very specific in your descriptions so that players know if this is something for them to fight or have sex with. http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1125


Hehe, on such things I miss 3e where powers like this was usually more detailed.

At-will flight at level 1 is to OP IMO RPG wise I think. So I don't think I'll allow the players to play Hengeyokai.



The trade off is that they can't use attack powers while in that form and also significantly slower than their normal walking speed (and the speed of most enemy creatures), and you can't change back to human/hybrid form the same round you change to animal form, so that somewhat limits its usefulness in combat.  For example, you can't use a minor to become a sparrow, fly to an upper landing and change back to human form in the same round.

It's handy for getting around outside of combat, but the inability to change, move and change back in a single round is limiting in combat.  It may work better for controllers who can drop a power to be sustained and then fly above the battle out of reach of enemies without ranged attacks.

  Pixies similarly have flight at level 1 so you might want to consider that.  They're trade off is that they can't stay up above the battle out of reach due to the altitude limit of 1.
The trade off is that they can't use attack powers while in that form and also significantly slower than their normal walking speed (and the speed of most enemy creatures), and you can't change back to human/hybrid form the same round you change to animal form, so that somewhat limits its usefulness in combat.  For example, you can't use a minor to become a sparrow, fly to an upper landing and change back to human form in the same round.

It's handy for getting around outside of combat, but the inability to change, move and change back in a single round is limiting in combat.  It may work better for controllers who can drop a power to be sustained and then fly above the battle out of reach of enemies without ranged attacks.

  Pixies similarly have flight at level 1 so you might want to consider that.  They're trade off is that they can't stay up above the battle out of reach due to the altitude limit of 1.



Yeah, I know... Therefore I said RPG wise. I don't just focus on battles in my sessions, alot of exploring and so on where fly would totally ruin it.

Pixie-fly is a nice fluff but I would have no trouble with their flight.

Whenever you introduce a new creature, you should be very specific in your descriptions so that players know if this is something for them to fight or have sex with. http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1125
You do know that altitude only applies at the end of their turn, right?  Out of combat flight, they can still fly
over relatively large chasms ("run fly", cover 16 squares.), fly up onto relatively high buildings (same), over walls, and so on...

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

You do know that altitude only applies at the end of their turn, right?  Out of combat flight, they can still fly
over relatively large chasms ("run fly", cover 16 squares.), fly up onto relatively high buildings (same), over walls, and so on...



No I didn't, thanks for clearing that up That makes it kinda OP for roleplaying to.
Whenever you introduce a new creature, you should be very specific in your descriptions so that players know if this is something for them to fight or have sex with. http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1125
You do know that altitude only applies at the end of their turn, right?  Out of combat flight, they can still fly
over relatively large chasms ("run fly", cover 16 squares.), fly up onto relatively high buildings (same), over walls, and so on...



No I didn't, thanks for clearing that up That makes it kinda OP for roleplaying to.

If you want to cheese it out a bit more.  Carry an immovable rod.  You can now put down a perch to rest between flutterings.


Alternitively, a pixie ranger- beastmaster can use his raptor as a mount.  Get a shortbow and rain death from above at level 1. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.