neutral dragon?

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i am currently playing a dragon shaman with a red totem, but have recently been bitten by a were-baboon, which my DM says will make me true neutral. this is something i asked for, so i dont want to cure it. my problem is, when i asked for it, i didnt realize the alignment change would make me lose my DS abilities since i would be further than 1 step away from my totems alignment. are there any true dragons other than the gem dragons that are neutral? even on only 1 axis would work. thank you for your help

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Traditionally, going back as far as 2E, true dragons are only the true chromatic, metallic, and gem dragons, of which only the gem daragons are always neutral.

At least as of 3.5, however, metallic and chromatic dragons are never neutral in any way; all are lawful or chaotic.

If you wish to use the gem dragons, you might want the MM2 update:
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/200...

as well as the gem dragons to-3.5-psionics update:
community.wizards.com/wiki/Dnd:Updating_...
You've also got the lung dragons from Oriental Adventures which are neutral on at least one axis and include some true neutral types (there's a 3.5 update in one of the Dragon magazines, though you might not need it just for dragon shaman use), and the planar dragons from the Draconomicon, which have a range of alignments depending on the plane to which they relate.  Monsters of Faerun includes the brown, fang, and song dragons, which include neutral alignments but don't belong to any broader group (the fang dragon is also in the Draconomicon).

Note that the fang dragon and the majority of the lung dragons lack a breath weapon, so they would require some custom changes to fit with the dragon shaman's breath weapon.

So, of the five major true dragon groups (chromatic, gem, lung, metallic, and planar) in 3rd Edition, only two of them don't automatically include neutral alignments, and you've also got a number of miscellaneous true dragons with alignments usable for your purposes.  Take your pick.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

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The following true dragons all posses neutrality in at least 1 aspect of their described alignments.
Sand Dragon: Sandstorm pg. 152
Fang Dragon: Draconomicon pg. 159
Battle Dragon: Draconomicon pg. 176
Chaos Dragon: Draconomicon pg. 177
Ethereal Dragon: Draconomicon pg. 179
Howling Dragon: Draconomicon pg. 180
Oceanus Dragon:  Draconomicon pg. 181
Pyroclastic Dragon: Draconomicon pg. 182
Rust Dragon: Draconomicon pg. 186
Styx Dragon: Draconomicon pg. 187
Tarterian Dragon: Draconomicon pg. 189
Force Dragon: Epic Level Handbook pg. 182
Prismatic Dragon: Epic Level Handbook pg. 184
Brown Dragon: Monsters of Faerûn pg. 38
Song Dragon: Monsters of Faerûn pg. 44
Steel Dragon: Dragons of Faerûn pg. 140
Mist Dragon: Dragons of Faerûn pg. 142
All Lung Dragons: Oriental Adventures pg. 152-163
alright thanks guys! this is really helpful and heartening!

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Of course, any dragon can be any alignment, because they are free-willed intelligent sapient creatures.
Of course, any dragon can be any alignment, because they are free-willed intelligent sapient creatures.


Really? Then what does it mean when it says, for example, "Alignment: Always chaotic evil" under red dragons?
Really? Then what does it mean when it says, for example, "Alignment: Always chaotic evil" under red dragons?

It means that, just a demons are free-willed intelligent sapient creatures, so are red dragons.

They have racial needs and drives that, when reenforced by being raised by OTHER red dragons, causes them to almost never be anything but power hungry, greedy, unempathizing, super-geniuses. It's a nature-nurture argument yes, but nature in this case front loads a lot of that Chaotic Evil personality right up front just as it does the Draconic language. That's why even freshly hatched wyrmlings are CE and speak Draconic.
So they are chaotic evil by nature but can change. Thank you.
So they are chaotic evil by nature but can change. Thank you.

A Red Dragon would be CE by nature but a rare few may change into something else.  That "something else" is usually CN or NE with an even rarer TN but if you ever found a LG Red Dragon you're either dealing with some truly unique creature or have found one with under some sort of magic compulsion.
 
Similarly, you could find a CE gold dragon. It would also be a very rare creature but it could also make a great story arc for someone who wanted to figure out why the "always good" gold dragon is demanding human sacrifices and torching the local villages.
Of course, any dragon can be any alignment, because they are free-willed intelligent sapient creatures.


Really? Then what does it mean when it says, for example, "Alignment: Always chaotic evil" under red dragons?



Nothing, really.
Or you could just play in Eberron, where any of the dragons can be any alignment.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Regardless of alignment, I tend to treat all dragons as being better off dead. They're all far too powerful, far too inhuman, and far too intelligent.
Or you could just play in Eberron, where any of the dragons can be any alignment.



Now why would anyone wanna do that?

Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Because the setting-specific races, Revenant blade, and Planar Shepherd make it all worthwhile...
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Still not enough.  I needz more compelling reasonz.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]


dood! Revenant Blade is a TWF Power Attacker, Planar Shepherd makes the God Wizard look like he hails from Kolob, and
the races!
Changeling & Shifter qualify for Warshaper just because.
Kalashtar gets more bonus PP than any race in the XPH.
Warforged gets Construct immunity.
How is that "not worth it", dood?!
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Umm ... how is more b0rkedness not worth it?   

More seriouser, it's cuz it's Eberron.  And, you know, Eberron is teh lamez. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Maybe so, but at least it's not fanb0i heaven like the Realms.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
At least FR isn't some lame world created to appease a buncha whiny kids.  Eberron is the 4e of campaign settings, brah.

Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Meh. I like the premise. I don't care your tone, though, so..,

REPORTED!!!

Is it just me, or does it kinda look like I'm arguing with myself?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Totally.  It's pretty kewlski, brah. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Oh, and "Eberron is the 4e of campaign settings"? Um, no. That would be Dark Sun, the only setting bad enough to be brought back just in time for Tabletop WoW.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Broski, 4e was made to appease a buncha whining noobs.  Eberron was made to appease a buncha whiny noobs.  'FR has too many NPCs, whaaaaa ... If Elminster is there why do my PCs need to do anything, whaaaaa ... I don't know everything about Waterdeep and there's too much to read, whaaaaa ... If my players read more books than me they may call out my campaign cuz it isn't following canon, whaaaa ...'  ;)
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

I never have that problem. Probably because I don't bother with WotC-approved settings. Since when do you trust WotC?
You're probably right about Tabletop WoW, though.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Bro, it's how it really went down.  So many peeps cryin' about all the lore like it was a bad thing.    We never had any issues runnin' in FR cuz we're smart enough to work with the material rather than assuming it's the only thing that goes.  That said, yeah, we used homebrew settings more often than any WotC stuff.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]



Is it just me, or does it kinda look like I'm arguing with myself?



It sure looks that way.  The downfall of having a couple twins in the forums who you need to look at closely to tell apart.  If there is some kind of arguement going on here just double post and anyone following along will probably think the second post is from the other twin instead of a double speak.


In 3.5 the "alignement" line is a bit fluid.  Just like the real world when something says "always" it really just means "what it should be barring some extenuating circumstances."  Of course some creatures have alignment subtypes and those ARE constant.  While you could see a reformed Demon with a LG alignment (maybe) it most likely will still be a chaotic and evil creature type.