YMTCXFANDS

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So. YMTCxF&S Shaky alliance prospect? YMTCers like making Legendary creatures and Planeswalkers and all that jazz. But most of them don't write backstories unless there is reason to do so. The recent competition down here - which I swear, I'm almost done reading the entries of - has given me some ideas.

Basically, my thoughts are that I want to combine your strengths with their strengths. But one question is where should I do this? You guys mostly keep to your forum and, with the exception of a few of us, we keep to ours.

Another question: How? How should this be done?

My inclination is that any interested story-writer will be put on a team with any interested card-designer. But I'm not sure how many ISWs I'll get. I'm sure there will be no shortage of ICDs.

So, I want to use the power of your brains. Mine may be inadequate? What would y'all think of this and the points that I have raised?

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
Well, as I stated elsewhere, I fully intend to turn The Pale World into a full blown set after the contest and moving it into the development stage.

Part of what we're looking at here though is the basic incompatibility with bottom up design trying to make stories. A lot of times, it's going to come across really... forced, and that doesn't inspire stories very well unless you're already working with a very flavorfully resonant card, and even then, it's nearly impossible to zoom out to make the entire set flavorful.
Most of the time, when we have this kind of thing being orchestrated, we're going to have to look at top down design because that's where the best results can be had.

As for the best way to do this, I think after getting a plane finished, full style guide and everything, we move our attentions over to the YmtC forum for the next stage.
Then, in the case of the pale world, ironically, we turn around and reverse engineer flavorful explanations for the cards as we saw all the way back in the Homelands document.

Pablo, if you want to act as my liason when we get closer to finishing the project out, I'd appreciate it.
I kind of like the idea of pairing people off in teams. What if you did a series of challenges where a designer and a writer had to work together to put together a character/card combo kind of like Ruwin did for Fisco Vane? It'd be tricky since it would require cooperation, but that's part of what would make it interesting, I think.

One thing I'd love to see is the design of Summer Projects around some of the M:EM planes, kind of like what Chaos was doing with Planar Pirates-self contained little pieces of design that use special cards not present in the main game to create a different play experience. The first thing that springs to mind? A Wild West themed Casual Summer Product set on Jakkard. It'd be a great way of capturing the flavor for some of these settings without having to design whole giant sets. 

But hey, maybe just a straight pairing alliance thing sort of like those weird shared accounts could work. 
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YMTCers like making Planeswalkers.


I'm pretty sure we don't.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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YMTCers like making Planeswalkers.

I'm pretty sure we don't.

I don't think I've made one since Koridian's 20+ round Planeswalker contest a while back.  I've exhausted all of my care for making 'Walkers for the next year or so.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

YMTCers like making Planeswalkers.

I'm pretty sure we don't.

I don't think I've made one since Koridian's 20+ round Planeswalker contest a while back.  I've exhausted all of my care for making 'Walkers for the next year or so.

Yeah I actually haven't seen all that many 'walker designs... or legendary creature designs, either. Have veteran YMTCders internalized those cards as gauche? 
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Yeah I actually haven't seen all that many 'walker designs... or legendary creature designs, either. Have veteran YMTCders internalized those cards as gauche? 

No the aversion is more from just seeing tons of new people show up with really poorly designed 'Walkers that have millions of lines of tiny text, clashing abilities, or any number of things that tend to violate our design sensibilities. 

Also, Maro wasn't kidding when he said that 'Walkers have very limited design space.  They are not easy to make and a lot can go wrong in their creation.  They are hard to balance, and a lot of the more interesting things you want to do with them tend to eat up a lot of text space and look inelegant. 

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Everything Azure said.

I like making walkers, its just danged hard to come up with designs that don't compete for space with what has been done before and art complete poop. 

Yeah I actually haven't seen all that many 'walker designs... or legendary creature designs, either. Have veteran YMTCders internalized those cards as gauche? 

No the aversion is more from just seeing tons of new people show up with really poorly designed 'Walkers that have millions of lines of tiny text, clashing abilities, or any number of things that tend to violate our design sensibilities.


This is kind of what I meant by 'Walkers seeming gauche--so many people design such actually terrible 'walkers that it ends up seeming low class.

Of course, I'm putting it in those specific terms just so I can imagine the YMTC crowd standing around sipping wine and calling each other "Old Sport" and "Old Bean." Also, I just was rereading parts of The Great Gatsby for my disasterous presentation, so my mind's in that place. Hm, I wonder if I could persuade Pablo and Neph to adopt the term "old bean" in general conversation...

I believe you when you say it's hard to balance 'walkers, though. Hell, JTMS is living proof of how hard it really is to get it right without a LOT of testing. 
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Pablo, if you want to act as my liason when we get closer to finishing the project out, I'd appreciate it.


I'd be happy to! Man, I have like two more to read. I'm about to do that. I swear. I just spaced out last night.
I kind of like the idea of pairing people off in teams. What if you did a series of challenges where a designer and a writer had to work together to put together a character/card combo kind of like Ruwin did for Fisco Vane? It'd be tricky since it would require cooperation, but that's part of what would make it interesting, I think.

But hey, maybe just a straight pairing alliance thing sort of like those weird shared accounts could work. 


I don't like the shared accounts. Maybe it's just me. I might be hard to work with. I don't know if you know Altimis, but he was my partner. Our designs are. . . different. And by that I mean that his could possibly see print. I think pairings might work. I would probably do it a)randomly, or b)by entry score. B meaning that there would be an entry round and that the highest scores would then be paired with the lowest scores. In an attempt to create equalish teams. Another thought would be that it would shift each round, but I like the idea of consistency maybe too much for that.
YMTCers like making Planeswalkers.


I'm pretty sure we don't.


Why are you so angry Mown? What happened to my Mown who would laugh and play? So full of sunshine. . .
I don't think I've made one since Koridian's 20+ round Planeswalker contest a while back.  I've exhausted all of my care for making 'Walkers for the next year or so.


Yeah. That thing was nuts. I only went like eight rounds in it. Partially because that guy does not have the palate required to enjoy my designs. Sure can run a contest though.



Also, Maro wasn't kidding when he said that 'Walkers have very limited design space.  They are not easy to make and a lot can go wrong in their creation.  They are hard to balance, and a lot of the more interesting things you want to do with them tend to eat up a lot of text space and look inelegant. 



What? There is so much untapped in those things. Heck, even Kevin has innovated into some virgin 'Walker space.

This is kind of what I meant by 'Walkers seeming gauche--so many people design such actually terrible 'walkers that it ends up seeming low class.

Of course, I'm putting it in those specific terms just so I can imagine the YMTC crowd standing around sipping wine and calling each other "Old Sport" and "Old Bean." Also, I just was rereading parts of The Great Gatsby for my disasterous presentation, so my mind's in that place. Hm, I wonder if I could persuade Pablo and Neph to adopt the term "old bean" in general conversation...

I believe you when you say it's hard to balance 'walkers, though. Hell, JTMS is living proof of how hard it really is to get it right without a LOT of testing. 


Yeah, well JTMS was made to be powerful. Just not as powerful as he ended up. A lot of YMTCers frown on over-powered designs, which is one of the problems with designing in a void. Power is probably lowest on my set of criteria - unless the design is ridiculously strong or utterly powerless. 

And it wouldn't have to just be Legends and 'Walkers. You can totally write stories about all sorts of cards. I just thought that those would be some of the most interesting, because they lend themselves to the format so well.

Anyway, it doesn't seem like there is a whole lot of interest in this so maybe I'll just sit on it for a while. Not only that, but my boss got in a car accident, and while she recovers, I am working 7 days a week in addition to my 4 days of school. So time is limited.

One thing, I guess, would you guys be opposed to a "casual" thread devoted to this? Some people post cards. Others post stories. Stories based on cards. Cards based on stories? I don't know how much action it would get, but I would choose this forum over the other because YMTC moves so quickly. Thoughts?

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
YMTCers like making Planeswalkers.


I'm pretty sure we don't.


Why are you so angry Mown? What happened to my Mown who would laugh and play? So full of sunshine. . .


Sunrise, Sunset.

It actually occurs to me that I could use Fiddler on the Roof for most things discussed in this thread...
We could use this thread as a card-and-story/art thing if you wanted. You and Azure and others just need to start posting cards, I guess. We could do it kind of like the flashfiction thread.
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Matchmaker Matchmaker?


Keeper: Okay, let's try it I guess. Here is my thing from yesterday. I thought she seemed cute.

Kcoruu, Mwonvuli's Havoc 
Planeswalker - Kcoruu
×3: Create a 1/1 Red and Green Fungus creature.
×2: Put a +1/+1 counter on each Fungus you control. 
÷2: Each Fungus you control deals damage equal to its power to target creature or player.
÷3: Each player sacrifices X lands where X is the number of Fungi you control.

{1} 

Rulings: A player cannot activate a division ability of a planeswalker unless it divides cleanly or whatever. And yes, this one might be OP. 

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
Hm, let's see... 

Kcoruu, Mwonvuli's Havoc

The panther warriors are not renowned for their evenhandedness and calm, but Kcoruu was strange, even for one of his dark breed. He first rose to prominence during the Mirage War, as Purraj led her tribe into the continent in order to reinforce Kaervek's troops. Kcorruu was among a division sent on a very important mission:

They were to invade the jungle of Mwonvuli and make it possible for Kaervek's dark spirits from the Burning Isles to crush Jorael's army of beast allies, and harry the nearby Jamuraan cities.

During the course of the campaign, however, it became more and more apparent to the panther warriors that Kcoruu was going native, after a fashion. The panther had never prided himself on cleanliness, as others of his race do, and he soon began to actively cultivate a mossy layer of fungal growth upon his fur, much to the disgust of his peers. His savagery in battle increased as well, and he began to lead more and more deranged charges into enemy territory, often barely scraping a victory from the jaws of defeat. It was during this campaign that he earned the title "The Havoc."

Then, suddenly, the war was over.

The panther warriors faded away like shadows, and Kaervek's spirits were banished from Mwonvuli.

But whether by accident or conspiracy or deliberate design, Kcoruu was left behind in the jungle.

The beast settled down in one of Jorael's abandoned palaces, and, quite literally, went to seed. He had observed spellcasters during the war on both sides, and gradually began to experiment with the rich red and green mana available to him in the Mwonvuli. He quickly found an aptitude for breeding dangerous and uncontrollable plantlife. The Havoc slowly warped the biome around his adopted home into a vicious network of plants and fungi feeding on each other, often violently. As an untrained mage, however, his spellcasting was strange, difficult to control, and often unwieldy. His creations began to spread far beyond the borders of his little fiefdom, and it was clear that someone would have to deal with him soon...

But once again Kcoruu's fortunes were shaped by wider events. His life was interrupted once more with the coming of the Phyrexians. Although Mwonvuli was not a staging ground--nor could it be, practically, when Llanowar and Yavamaya were such major targets--but neither was it spared the Phyrexian onslaught. Overnight, Kcoruu transformed from the scourge of the Mwonvuli to its greatest weapon. The invaders found themselves faced with fungal enemies that in some ways resembled their own deranged drive to consume and evolve into more effective slaughter machines. But here, as with the Thrulls of Sarpadia, they faced an opponent that was biological, not mechanical.

Kcoruu engaged the invaders in a one-cat guerrilla war that was only brought to an end when a Phyrexian general managed to finally trap and confront the warrior in his commandeered palace. The general explained that Phyrexia had use for such a being as Kcoruu, however flawed his creations were now. Kcoruu declined the offer. The general made it clear that the offer was not optional. And Kcoruu, laughing, summoned up all his remaining mana and summoned a wave of moss that collapsed the aging stonework down upon the two assailants.

In that moment, Kcoruu vanished from the world. The only remains of Kcoruu on Dominaria are the kudzu plants that, after other plantmatter died as the soil was stripped of its mana, spread throughout the plane. In Jamuraa they are still known as the Havoc Vine.

And his other legacy is a rumor of a being that walks cloaked in moss from world to world, tracking down the remaining forces of the one civilization that could best him. The worlds that know the dire touch of Phyresis have a second concern: the mad fungal creations of Mwonvuli's Havoc.



How's that for a character? 
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Yes! Panther. I thought she was a girl. Who was into those like math-in-nature things. But this is pretty sweet. I was chuckling heartily at the "The panther had never prided himself on cleanliness" part!

Okay. Here is an idea. There is a thread on YMTC called "A Contest Like No Other." One person gives a criteria, then everyone submits something that fits it. Then there is a vote. The best - or at least the most liked - card wins and its designer comes up with the next criteria. Raven is in it a lot. So, my suggestion is that we do something like that. One person submits a design, or if design is not there thing maybe just a name? Or a quote or something - although it sorta defeats the purpose. I want to combine the two elements y'know? Anyway, then everyone else submits a backstory or a slice-of-life story or whatever, followed by a vote.

We could call it "A Contest Sorta Like That Other One." Anybody interested in a weekly/bi-weekly thing like that? 

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
I would dig it.

Haha, I almost like your version better. I saw Mwonvuli though and decided to go all historical on our collective ****. 
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And what about the few of us who are foolish enough to walk both boards?

Also, Keeper, that was awesome. 
Choose the one you're better at or identify more with or just choose F and S because it is bound to have less participants. 

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
I have like one Planeswalker design I'm really proud of, although I've more or less given him sufficient background to where there's not much wiggle room. He will be the main character in the set I probably won't start on, much less finish.

Show


Name1 Name2
Planeswalker - Name1
[+1]: Look at target player's hand and exile a card of your choice. That player draws a card.
[-2]: Target player exiles a creature he or she controls.
[X]: You may play target card exiled with ~ and with converted mana cost X or less without paying its mana cost.
[2]

His abilities are still not set in stone. Or his name, obviously. Main shtick is being a paranoid mindmage in pursuit of knowledge because he has forgotten a large portion of his past. Which isn't the most innovative thing or anything, but I think it can work into this morality momentum thing I'd like to build up, and look, I'm selling myself short again, whee.

Names are flexible, content dependant, and stupid.


Why are you so angry Mown? What happened to my Mown who would laugh and play? So full of sunshine. . .


It all started, or rather, ended, with a girl I once knew...

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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Hmmm. Real Mown Life Stories? That's how I became all bitter and disillusioned too. Well, and my natural disposition to that sort of perspective. Is that how Name1 Name2 lost his memories? Do you have that part of the story yet? Because if you do, you should give me a little to work with. If not then I can make some stuff up. I probably wouldn't do an outline like Keeper did, but more of an episode.

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
Hmmm. Real Mown Life Stories?


No, made up stories.
Also, I don't work with concrete things, my mind is just a collection of concepts. And I commonly like to not explain things, either to aggravate, create curiosity, or because of my lack of progression. It's just some yada-yada big sacrifice to save the plane thingymajig. He essentially clouded an entire plane in perpetual darkness because the plane's proximity to the sun turns the rays into fiery lazers. The plane is entirely 2spooky because the imagination of people run wild, with a subthem of faith where blessing are a commercial product for everyday people. Mechanical theme is currently enchantments and/or hidden information, not entirely sure how to properly do either at the moment, but that's more due to procrastination.

/words

Edit: I think the whole cloudy thing is how the activated his spark, sending him god knows where, so he has backtracked to reclaim his memories.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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