I have a question about creating magical items in 4e. If i have a character with enchant magical item, and he/she enchants a weapon to lvl 5, would that weapon only have a +1, or would it also gain the effect of a lvl 5 weapon listed in the magical i

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I have a question about creating magical items in 4e. If i have a character with enchant magical item, and he/she enchants a weapon to lvl 5, would that weapon only have a +1, or would it also gain the effect of a lvl 5 weapon listed in the magical items page in the player's handbook? 
You don't enchant a weapon to a certain level, you enchant an item to be a particular item as described in the book, but you can only create items of your level or lower.  All level 5 weapons will have a +1 enhancement bonus, but most of them will also have other benefits too.

Also, the rule since Essentials came out is that you can only create Common magic items of your level or lower.  But if you're not using any of the Essentials books, then you don't have to worry about that and you can indeed create any level 5 weapon and it will have the +1 enhancement bonus AND any other powers or benefits that come with that weapon.

Commonalities for magic items are not listed in the Player's Handbook since that was before the commonality rules were created.  Standard "Magic Weapons," however, are Common.  (Magic Weapons are the weapons that are just +X enhancement and +Xd6? extra damage on a critical, but nothing else.)

So short answer, yes, you can create any item in the PH that is of your level or lower and you get all the benefits of that item including any powers it might have.  Long answer is that it also has to be a Common item, and you'll have to look up what the commonalities are since they're not listed in PH.  I'm not sure where they are listed since I always view them in the online Compendium ...

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

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"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Am1Ow-q...

List of common magic item by user CPNuke. A DM may feel comfortable waving the common requirement on a case-by-case basis.
Also, you can search in online Compendium, even without subscription (just can't read the entries). 
A DM may feel comfortable waving the common requirement on a case-by-case basis.



+1

I personally haven’t played in a game yet where the DM uses the new common and uncommon rules; and in the games I have been DM I haven’t as well (simply because I think its tenuous and I’m more interested in people having items they want then having to choose from a list of things they potentially don’t)


So before you lock yourself in, it would probably be a good idea just to ask your DM which way they want to go; might get lucky and get DMs like I’ve had and he let you make whatever your heart desires.  

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Also, the rule since Essentials came out is that you can only create Common magic items of your level or lower. 



I've heard this a few times on the forum, could you point me to where this is stated?  The ritual description from the DDI Compendium doesn't  mention the "common" limitation, just the level limitation.
A DM may feel comfortable waving the common requirement on a case-by-case basis.



+1

I personally haven’t played in a game yet where the DM uses the new common and uncommon rules; and in the games I have been DM I haven’t as well (simply because I think its tenuous and I’m more interested in people having items they want then having to choose from a list of things they potentially don’t)


So before you lock yourself in, it would probably be a good idea just to ask your DM which way they want to go; might get lucky and get DMs like I’ve had and he let you make whatever your heart desires.  




I'm also a big believer in people having what they want. If they don't, then what's the point? I've mentioned to my own players that they can (and should) look at available magic items in the books, and go ahead and tell me a couple things they really really want to have, re-flavor it if they want, and give it to me to drop into an adventure. It'll be a surprise when/where they get it, but it'll be that thing they're excited about having. It's a combination of I want them to have it, and it means less work for me coming up with good loot.

I'd definitely suggest that instead of attempting to circumvent rules, go to your DM and tell them straight up "I want this" or "I want to do this" and let the DM help you get what you want.

Also, the rule since Essentials came out is that you can only create Common magic items of your level or lower. 

I've heard this a few times on the forum, could you point me to where this is stated?  The ritual description from the DDI Compendium doesn't  mention the "common" limitation, just the level limitation.



I'm not sure but I think RAW you are correct, Enchant Magic Item does not have a limit on the Rarity of the item you can create.  However, in the RC where it talks about rarity it states "Uncommon and rare magic items are not normally created in the current age of the world. These items were crafted in the distant past, some even during the Dawn War, and the techniques for their creation have been lost to the ravages of time. Now they are found only as part of treasure hoards in ancient ruins and dangerous dungeons."

Most folks take that literally and not as fluff - you can't create any items other than Common ones, although once again, strictly RAW, Enchant Magic Item has no such limitation.

I think part of the problem is that there are no rituals in Essentials, so there's no creating your own magic items.  You can only find them or buy them, so the RC punts on this question.  If you're using Rituals, well ... the issue is kinda murky except for that quote above from RC about Uncommons and Rares.

Now, there was also some quote by one of the developers that I seem to remember indicated that the intention was not to allow players to create Common magic items by default.  Not sure where I read that though.

The magic item rarity rules are kinda half baked in some ways.  It's like they never fully updated everything they should have.  Artificers had problems with this, or so I hear, but I've never played one so I don't really know.

As for myself, in my main campaign that I DM I don't use the Rarity rules because we started well before they were created and my players already have a bunch of Uncommon and Rare items, so we just continue to use the magic item daily power use limit.  In my second campaign I only use the Rarity rules to restrict the items they players can create for themselves and as a guideline as to which items might be for sale in town.  However, the players only just now finally were "rewarded" with a magic shop that sells Common items and they still haven't earned the Enchant Magic Item ritual yet.

Bottom line:  if you're going to allow unlimited magic item daily power usage, then it would be smart to restrict the number of Uncommon and Rare items available.  If you go by the old daily power usage rule then there's not much or any trouble with allowing players to create whatever they want.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Interesting.

I am curious because I started a similar thread in the "DMs" section.  As a DM I am quite keen on my players creating magic items but I have issues with them just being able to create anything.  Even if "anything" was limited to just common items.  Some mechanism for learning or inventing new recipes would be nice.
Interesting.

I am curious because I started a similar thread in the "DMs" section.  As a DM I am quite keen on my players creating magic items but I have issues with them just being able to create anything.  Even if "anything" was limited to just common items.  Some mechanism for learning or inventing new recipes would be nice.




You could maybe implement a “formula” system, similar to that of Alchemy; the players would have to find schematics or something equilivant to create a magical item.


Honestly though I think it’s just making another gold sink; in order for it to really work well you will either have to drop magic weapon formulas as random loot or drop more gold so the players can buy them.


You don’t want to add formula’s in without them dropping or more gold, if you do you will make it simply more easy for players to try to buy things instead of making it (ex- why pay 500gp a formula, and another 200gp for the ingredients, when its only a 600gp item)


Honestly I wouldn’t be to restricting what you can allow them to make form a list; only because as others have said you want players to get items they want. Because when players gets items they don’t want… they just sell them for the gold to buy what they do, or have an item that sees no game play.


If you limit the list to much, you might run into the problem where players simply don’t want anything on the list, and thus decide the whole making your own items thing is a waste of time and gold.

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> The magic item rarity rules are kinda half baked in some ways.

Because they were a solution looking for a problem, basically.

> Some mechanism for learning or inventing new recipes would be nice.

The "discovering ancient recipes / going on a quest to create" stuff is fine as a plot device in a novel but it doesn't work very well as a game play element - unless it's essentially meant as a "don't even bother" sign being hung on the process.
Honestly I wouldn’t be to restricting what you can allow them to make form a list; only because as others have said you want players to get items they want. Because when players gets items they don’t want… they just sell them for the gold to buy what they do, or have an item that sees no game play.



erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think the approach I shall take is that if they want to make a magical item they will need to do the research, with skill rolls based on level and rarity.  I don't think that is too onerous.  If they want to make an uncommon item I may decide they need a specific ingredient.

Ultimately I want the players with the ritual skills to feel they have gained something, rather than the players without, who just get the items from their wish-list.  We will see how it goes.
Honestly I wouldn’t be to restricting what you can allow them to make form a list; only because as others have said you want players to get items they want. Because when players gets items they don’t want… they just sell them for the gold to buy what they do, or have an item that sees no game play.



erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think the approach I shall take is that if they want to make a magical item they will need to do the research, with skill rolls based on level and rarity.  I don't think that is too onerous.  If they want to make an uncommon item I may decide they need a specific ingredient.

Ultimately I want the players with the ritual skills to feel they have gained something, rather than the players without, who just get the items from their wish-list.  We will see how it goes.




I'd try and divy up the skills so everyone can get a crack at them.  also, I'd vary the price a little based on the rolls- if you roll a 20, save a bit of cash, that sorta thing.

Also, the rule since Essentials came out is that you can only create Common magic items of your level or lower. 



I've heard this a few times on the forum, could you point me to where this is stated?  The ritual description from the DDI Compendium doesn't  mention the "common" limitation, just the level limitation.



This link explains the reasons and mechanism for the rarity rules: www.wizards.com/DND/Article.aspx?x=dnd/d...

The KEY point about magic item rarity is that is allows us to dispense with the awful and irritating rule limiting item daily powers.

Thus in normal 4E you can make, buy and kit up with a million powerful magical items, but you are only allowed to use one of these per day (at heroic tier; PH1, p 226). However, using the new improved rules of item rarity, players are more likely to have very few powerful magic items and loads of weak ones, but they no longer need to be limited by the magic item daily power rule.
Except most item dailies suck, and people generally want their passives like Iron Armbands of power and charge stuff.

You could probably just handwave the magic item daily thing (like I have always done) and never notice an issue.
I'm not sure but I think RAW you are correct, Enchant Magic Item does not have a limit on the Rarity of the item you can create.  However, in the RC where it talks about rarity it states "Uncommon and rare magic items are not normally created in the current age of the world. These items were crafted in the distant past, some even during the Dawn War, and the techniques for their creation have been lost to the ravages of time. Now they are found only as part of treasure hoards in ancient ruins and dangerous dungeons."


I think its worth pointing out that "not normally" is not the same as never and that, if anyone is going to be crafting unique and power items its going to the PC's who, by their their very definition are not normal. Rather they are special and unique individuals who grow from heroes into paragons and finally achieve epic destinies that forever alter the world in some fashion.

Personally, I think whoever designed the item rarity rules with the idea that PCs shouldn't actually be able to MAKE uncommon or rare items either never really bothered to read fluff on just who the PCs are supposed to be in a 4E campaign -or- never liked the idea that 4E PC's are supposed to be legendary protagonists who actually change the world on a level you'd normally only see named NPCs like Elminster accomplish via a tie-in novel.

Except most item dailies suck, and people generally want their passives like Iron Armbands of power and charge stuff.

You could probably just handwave the magic item daily thing (like I have always done) and never notice an issue.



In most groups with most players, that works.

In other groups, you have someone with a Golf Bag Full Of Wands who has *every* Arcane encounter power available, or the bag of holding with 40 suits of Dwarven Armor +1 for all-day infinite surgeless healing.

The "daily item powers per day" rule had a valid and useful purpose, and "you can't purchase or make items with Daily powers" accomplishes the same thing from a different direction.  As does telling your players that Golf Bag Of Wands Does Not Fit The Idiom, or having players who already know that.
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The simpler approach: you can only use a given item daily power once per day. Now it doesn't matter how many suits of dwarven armor you're packing along.

The golf bag of wands is somewhat self-limiting in that either the cost will be phenomenal or the accuracy will be awful.
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