(4e) A trap that breaks all the rules?

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I'd like to throw the following trap at my players and I'd like your thoughts on whether this is (a) fun and (b) fair?

First, the context: The PCs have blitzed through my 4e conversion of Dragon Mountain and it's been crazy fun. I think they've triggered close to every damn kobold trap known to man. ;) They're heading into the climactic dragon fight tomorrow night (it's Infyrana, a big bad red dragon mage). One of the things I've worked into the dragon fight is a portal which she can move around (and at a certain point use a limited spell to teleport PCs into, they'll get a save as per the rules of course); this portal leads to the "Kobold Proving Grounds" which are where kobolds learn to fight and think like, well, kobolds

So this trap is a prison of sorts, with the PC removed from the dragon fight and facing a gauntlet of traps which tests that player's knowledge of kobold trapping techniques that they've run up against throughout Dragon Mountain. It has the potential of dealing 108 damage (average) to a PC who makes poor decisions, but at the same time the PC's player (mostly) has the option to not advance and stay stuck until they can puzzle it out or another player helps them. And it does all this without ever rolling an attack roll...

Broken? Awesome? What do you think? And how on earth do you assign a level to something like this?
























Kobold Proving Grounds



Level 13 Elite Obstacle



Puzzle-Trap



XP 1,600



Puzzle: Once trapped in the kobold proving grounds, the PCs must deduce a way out. Only PCs in the proving grounds together can help each other. While in the proving grounds, medium-sized PCs must squeeze (-5 attack, half speed, and grant combat advantage).



Triggered Attack



Targets: PCs ending their turn in the proving grounds.


Effect: Ask each PC these questions, in any order. A PC can choose to fall back when there’s an (*), but then they do not reach a possible exit that round.


1.* “You hear scything blades coming. What do you do?”


‘Duck’ or ‘drop prone’ avoids the trap. Otherwise the PC is impaled for 3d8+10 damage.


2. “A rolling boulder is coming down the hall behind you, and a kobold goes running down the hall ahead of you. How do you proceed?”


‘Skirting the edge’ or ‘mindful for pits’ avoids the trap. Otherwise the PC falls into a pit for 4d10 damage.


3.* “You notice bits of floating metal in the hallway ahead. In an alcove before the hallway are five potions, labeled as resistance to acid, cold, fire, lightning, and poison. What do you do?”


‘Acid’ bypasses the gelatinous cube for -1 surge. Otherwise, the PC takes 20 acid damage. Other potions do nothing but cost -1 surge. Mixing at DM discretion.


4. “A kobold ahead of you is crushed by a stone block. From either side of the hall, swarms of insects pour.  Soon you’ll be dinner. How do you proceed?”


‘Trigger the deadfall’ avoids swarms, since the deadfall is hollow. Otherwise, the PC takes 4d8+5 damage.


5.* “This foul-smelling hall seems to swallow magical light and you hear a big monster within feasting on kobolds. What do you do?”


‘Throw a torch’ ignites the foul gas and provides a distraction. Other techniques might work. Otherwise the PC takes 20 poison damage.



















Triggered Attack



Targets: Enemy chooses the wrong door out or attempts to teleport out.


Effect: Take 2d8+7 force damage and teleported to center of the proving grounds.



Escaping the Proving Grounds



After each failed attempt to leave, that door becomes the exit. A PC who escapes can spend a healing surge, recharge an encounter power, or re-roll initiative.





Unless you know for sure your players will appreciate it, don't do it.  This sort of 'guess what the DM is thinking' trap is really, really unfun from the other side - especially the 'crushing block' trap.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
To me that would work better as a skill challenge leading up to a boss fight. Succeed at the skill challenge you reach the big bad with resources intact, maybe even a bonus because you suddenly understand the nature of the Kobold pits... Fail at the skill challenge, you reach the big bad with fewer healing surges, maybe start the fight with a condition (save ends, don't make it anything they have to deal with the whole time or it will just feel like a DM stick).

I really like the individual setups, but handling them as a skill challenge rather than an outright damaging trap I think would keep the players more engaged and add to the story.

Honestly, I'm going to steal a few of your descriptions for use in my own game.
Unless you know for sure your players will appreciate it, don't do it.  This sort of 'guess what the DM is thinking' trap is really, really unfun from the other side - especially the 'crushing block' trap.


Well, the players have encountered all of these traps previously while exploring the dungeon, often with begrudging laughter. For example, with the falling block trap, they had 'acquired' a kobold guide who they forced to search for traps and the guide triggered a falling block trap and was crushed; the group laughed and commented about "so rocks fall, and people really do die...just not PCs?" Later, however they discovered the stone block had been overturned and was hollow, and that rival kobolds had captured their former kobold guide. There has been an old school vibe to the whole thing, so I'm pretty confident they will enjoy something like this.

To me that would work better as a skill challenge leading up to a boss fight. Succeed at the skill challenge you reach the big bad with resources intact, maybe even a bonus because you suddenly understand the nature of the Kobold pits... Fail at the skill challenge, you reach the big bad with fewer healing surges, maybe start the fight with a condition (save ends, don't make it anything they have to deal with the whole time or it will just feel like a DM stick).

I really like the individual setups, but handling them as a skill challenge rather than an outright damaging trap I think would keep the players more engaged and add to the story.

Honestly, I'm going to steal a few of your descriptions for use in my own game.


I deliberately did not use a skill challenge, because I wanted this to be a player challenge / puzzle that reflects kobold trap-making principles and psychology. Why do you think a skill challenge would be more engaging? 
"The penitent man kneels before God" "Kneel!"

In all seriousness, I wouldn't make failing the test auto damage. A monk might forget that the blade comes at head-height but his combat-reflex might still let him 'matrix' out of the way. I would make such a trap an attack vs reflex. Maybe miss for half damage.

Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
"The penitent man kneels before God" "Kneel!"

In all seriousness, I wouldn't make failing the test auto damage. A monk might forget that the blade comes at head-height but his combat-reflex might still let him 'matrix' out of the way. I would make such a trap an attack vs reflex. Maybe miss for half damage.

The victim isn't literally being "impaled" by the "scything blade" unless maybe the damage is enough to kill them outright. If it isn't, then they're probably still 100% effective, which someone wouldn't be after being "impaled." The damage reflects the "stress" of trying not to be impaled.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy

But still the rogue or monk might have a better chance of avoiding the trap (or keeping calm for abstract hp) than the heavily armoured cleric or fighter.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
But still the rogue or monk might have a better chance of avoiding the trap (or keeping calm for abstract hp) than the heavily armoured cleric or fighter.

But those in armor have less to worry about from it anyway.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy

But still the rogue or monk might have a better chance of avoiding the trap (or keeping calm for abstract hp) than the heavily armoured cleric or fighter.

But those in armor have less to worry about from it anyway.



This is why AC and Reflex are different defences.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
But still the rogue or monk might have a better chance of avoiding the trap (or keeping calm for abstract hp) than the heavily armoured cleric or fighter.

But those in armor have less to worry about from it anyway.

This is why AC and Reflex are different defences.

Bottom line, he's taking a different approach with this trap. He wants it to be a challenge for the players and not something they can get out of due to character design, or the fiction of the game. Not my preference, but seems like it would work for him.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy

Yes, it tests player-knowledge rather than character-knowledge, which isn't a good thing in my book. I don't infrequently hear in my games "Do I remember who this chap is" "Yes, you met him  in the pub with that yeti with two heads" "Ah, yes, I walk up to him and shake his hand warmly". I don't like to punish players for having poor memories, if there is no reason for their character to have forgotten.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Yes, it tests player-knowledge rather than character-knowledge, which isn't a good thing in my book. I don't infrequently hear in my games "Do I remember who this chap is" "Yes, you met him  in the pub with that yeti with two heads" "Ah, yes, I walk up to him and shake his hand warmly". I don't like to punish players for having poor memories, if there is no reason for their character to have forgotten.

I absolutely agree.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy

So, would you guys suggest keeping it the same, but if the question is failed (i.e. the workaround isn't figured out) then have the trap attack them and only deal damage on a hit. If the trap misses then somehow the PC's reflexes (or whatever) saved them at the last minute?
Yes, it tests player-knowledge rather than character-knowledge, which isn't a good thing in my book. I don't infrequently hear in my games "Do I remember who this chap is" "Yes, you met him  in the pub with that yeti with two heads" "Ah, yes, I walk up to him and shake his hand warmly". I don't like to punish players for having poor memories, if there is no reason for their character to have forgotten.

I absolutely agree.




Another vote for this.  I had a DM who used to make you roll intelligence checks to remember things that your character would obviously not have forgotten.  For example, if the PC's ended the night in a tavern going to sleep after meeting and spending a few hours speaking with Grizzle the one eyed Dwarf who works the bar; and we didn't meet to play again for two weeks he would likely make you roll an intelligence check to remember the barkeeps name.  Despite only a few hours passing in game time.

Always much better to test the PC's, and not the players, who's memories are filled with far more important things than the name of an imaginary bartender.  That said, it does become difficult to draw the line where you require some sort of cleverness or creativity from the players and where you just allow them to roll for all the answers-so I am not averse to puzzles or riddles, but I only usually use them for side quests or as tangents, not typically as an obstacle to actual play.  Basically I would only require player knowledge for something that isn't important to the game, but more of a distraction or fun little tangent. 

...and in the ancient voice of a million squirrels the begotten chittered "You have set upon yourselves a great and noble task, dare you step further, what say you! What say you!"
a) No
b) No

Here's my major problem with this:
It has the potential of dealing 108 damage (average) to a PC who makes poor decisions, but at the same time the PC's player (mostly) has the option to not advance and stay stuck until they can puzzle it out or another player helps them.


This is just punishing the player, not the character.  The system revolves around rules, and changing them like this feels like you are doing the whole dm vs player shtick.
You are basically adding a bunch of house rules that only punish players.  And they don't even know you did it.  When a player says, "I swing my sword at the kobold."  You don't say, "The kobold ducks."  You have the player do the attack roll.
But for the trap, the player has to know he can say it, and that it must be said or he takes a large amount of damage?  That's a one way street, and goes against the game in general.
I'd like to throw the following trap at my players and I'd like your thoughts on whether this is (a) fun and (b) fair?

Before I can answer this, I need to know:

1. How do you define "fun"?  What aspects of this challenge/trap is supposed to be "fun"?
2. How do you define "fair"?

So this trap is a prison of sorts, with the PC removed from the dragon fight and facing a gauntlet of traps which tests that player's knowledge of kobold trapping techniques that they've run up against throughout Dragon Mountain. It has the potential of dealing 108 damage (average) to a PC who makes poor decisions,

What happens if the player is completely unaware of kobold trapping techniques?  Are they doomed to fail this?

but at the same time the PC's player (mostly) has the option to not advance and stay stuck until they can puzzle it out or another player helps them. And it does all this without ever rolling an attack roll...

This is probably the worst thing I can see in this post.  You're intentionally designing a game element that hampers and prevents a player from participating for not having metagaming knowledge.

Broken? Awesome? What do you think? And how on earth do you assign a level to something like this?

Broken.  Nowhere near awesome, especially if none of your players have any metagaming knowledge on the subject; it's even worse than "save or die" because at least with SoD it's the default rules and the dice determining whether the PCs dies or continue... here it's "die or stay stuck until either a friend helps you or a deus ex machina takes place, maybe you should've read that monster's manual next to the DM ahead of time".
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Kobold Proving Grounds



Level 13 Elite Obstacle



Puzzle-Trap



XP 1,600



Puzzle: Once trapped in the kobold proving grounds, the PCs must deduce a way out. Only PCs in the proving grounds together can help each other. While in the proving grounds, medium-sized PCs must squeeze (-5 attack, half speed, and grant combat advantage).



Triggered Attack



Targets: PCs ending their turn in the proving grounds.


Effect: Ask each PC these questions, in any order. A PC can choose to fall back when there’s an (*), but then they do not reach a possible exit that round.


1.* “You hear scything blades coming. What do you do?”


‘Duck’ or ‘drop prone’ avoids the trap. Otherwise the PC is impaled for 3d8+10 damage.


2. “A rolling boulder is coming down the hall behind you, and a kobold goes running down the hall ahead of you. How do you proceed?”


‘Skirting the edge’ or ‘mindful for pits’ avoids the trap. Otherwise the PC falls into a pit for 4d10 damage.


3.* “You notice bits of floating metal in the hallway ahead. In an alcove before the hallway are five potions, labeled as resistance to acid, cold, fire, lightning, and poison. What do you do?”


‘Acid’ bypasses the gelatinous cube for -1 surge. Otherwise, the PC takes 20 acid damage. Other potions do nothing but cost -1 surge. Mixing at DM discretion.


4. “A kobold ahead of you is crushed by a stone block. From either side of the hall, swarms of insects pour.  Soon you’ll be dinner. How do you proceed?”


‘Trigger the deadfall’ avoids swarms, since the deadfall is hollow. Otherwise, the PC takes 4d8+5 damage.


5.* “This foul-smelling hall seems to swallow magical light and you hear a big monster within feasting on kobolds. What do you do?”


‘Throw a torch’ ignites the foul gas and provides a distraction. Other techniques might work. Otherwise the PC takes 20 poison damage.



















Triggered Attack



Targets: Enemy chooses the wrong door out or attempts to teleport out.


Effect: Take 2d8+7 force damage and teleported to center of the proving grounds.



Escaping the Proving Grounds



After each failed attempt to leave, that door becomes the exit. A PC who escapes can spend a healing surge, recharge an encounter power, or re-roll initiative.








This looks like it is best done as a skill challenge, not as a literal trap.  Alternatively, design it as a hazard, but still not as a trap.  Here's how I'd design it:

Kobold Proving Grounds
Goal: Escaping the Proving Grounds
Level: 15
Complexity: 2
Primary Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Endurance, Stealth, Thievery
Secondary Skills: Athletics, Dungeoneering, Nature, Thievery
Success: Escapes the proving grounds
Failure: Loses 1 healing surge, or takes damage equal to healing surge value when no healing surges remain, and must repeat the challenge until success is achieved or death occurs.
Special: While in the proving grounds, all medium-sized creatures are squeezing. Also, teleportation causes the PC to take 2d8+7 damage and go back to the first scene.
EXP: 2400

Scene 1: Scythe Blade Room (1-2 checks)
Primary Skills:


  • Acrobatics. You dodge or drop prone as the blades approach

  • Endurance. You rely on your armor as it absorbs the impact of the blades


Secondary Skills:


  • Dungeoneering, Thievery.  You remember how kobold traps are designed, and anticipate the blades as they come in.  +2 to Acrobatics.


Success: continue to the next scene
Failure: take 3d8+10 damage, continue to the next scene

Scene 2: Boulder Path Room (1-2 checks)
Primary Skills:


  • Acrobatics.  You skirt the side of the hall, narrowly avoiding the boulder's path

  • Athletics.  Run, Forrest, run!


 Secondary Skills:


  • Dungeoneering, Thievery.  Again, you remember how kobold traps are designed, and figure out where best not to be at. +2 to Acrobatics.


Success: continue to the next scene
Failure: take 4d10 damage (from either falling or being gravely injured from the boulder), and continue to the next scene

Scene 3: Gelatinous Cube Wall (1-2 checks)
Primary Skills:


  • Endurance.  You bear the pain of going through a wall of gelatinous acid. Lose 1 healing surge instead of taking damage.

  • Dungeoneering.  You choose the right potion for the job (lose 1 healing surge), and pass unharmed.


Secondary Skills:


  • Athletics.  You go into the cube with a running start, hopefully minimizing any damage taken.  +2 to Endurance.


Success: continue to the next scene
Failure: take 20 damage, lose 1 healing surge, and continue to the next scene

Scene 4: Deadfall Dinner (1-2 checks)
Primary Skills:


  • Thievery.  You trigger the deadfall, avoiding the swarm.

  • Stealth.  You somehow mask your scent or find a way for the insects to ignore you.


Secondary Skills:


  • Nature.  You remember the biology of these creatures, and what you can do to avoid becoming their dinner.  +2 to Stealth


Success: continue to the next scene
Failure: take 4d8+5 damage, and continue to the next scene

Scene 5: Monster In The Dark (1-2 checks)
Primary Skills:


  • Bluff.  You successfully distract the monster.

  • Intimidate.  You somehow get to scare the monster away.

  • Athletics/Acrobatics.  You outmaneuver the monster.

  • Stealth.  You sneak past the monster.


Secondary Skills:


  • Dungeoneering/Nature.  You realize that the gas is flammable, and could be used to keep the monster away.  +2 to Bluff, +5 to Intimidate


Success: you escape the monster unharmed
Failure: monster mauls you, take 20 damage

DCs would be based on what actions they're taking (whether standard or minor).

Though truth to be told, I'd rather just remove the "teleport back to start" as a failure, because it's simply too frustrating to repeat the same tasks while allies are doing other stuff. 







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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Ok, first of all there's a proposed revision to the trap (if I keep it as a trap) to have them be attack rolls, not auto-effects. These attacks rolls can be entirely circumvented by knowing the "trick" of the trap.

Second, this is not a design for a published adventure or other DMs, it's for my group. A group who, let me reiterate, have over 10 sessions experience with kobold traps as we've been having a blast playing Dragon Mountain (converted to 4e). *All* of the traps that appear in the proving grounds are traps they've previously encountered and dealt with.

Third, the fun part of the proving grounds for the players is in connecting the dots from traps in previous adventures to this mega-nasty trap. Basically, if they play smart they get a 'free pass' thru this deadly gauntlet of traps. They get to feel awesome. And if they mess up in a couple places, they can have fun roleplaying their angst against the kobolds or wrack their brains trying to remember a solution while the other players (whose PCs might not be in the Proving Grounds) are on the edges of their seats with the answer. For our group that would be a blast

Its that third reason why I wanted to avoid a skill challenge. Not that your example skill challenge doesn't work @chaosfang - on the contrary you did a great job writing it up, thanks! But tneeds would need to be that same "free pass" incorporated into the skill challenge. For example, with the Scything Blades there would be no Acrobatics check needed to duck, you simply need to realize that the trap is designed to pass over the heads of kobolds and choose to duck - automatic success. Does that clarify what I'm shooting for?
I see.  Well, even within the skill challenge paradigm, no one says that you should restrict the players to the skills that you thought are applicable to the scene, or even if you should even use skills in the first place.

From the Rules Compendium:

From disabling a complex trap to negotiating peace between warring nations, a skill challenge takes complex activities and structures them into a series of skill checks. A skill challenge should not replace the roleplaying, the puzzling, and the ingenuity that players put into handling those situations. Instead, it allows the Dungeon Master to define the adventurers' efforts wthin the rules structure so that the players understand their options and the DM can more easily adjudicate the outcome.



So skill challenges aren't meant to be a straightjacket for players, but a ruleset for DMs so that those particular non-combat sections involving critical parts of the adventure are easier to administer.

As you can see with the skill challenge I've designed, it's basically a more organized approach to the various events taking place within the kobold proving grounds, with everything kept to a minimum.  There is always leeway here for both skills not mentioned here (so long as it's appropriately explained, like using Arcana instead of Dungeoneering for some sections like alchemy) and non-skill actions like ducking or crawling past the scythe blades (especially if your group is into that sort of thing). 
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
I ran the encounter with the Kobold Proving Grounds (as a complex trap/hazard) and it played great...

The two players newest to D&D had their PCs - paladin & barbarian - teleported to the KPG by the dragon, and I was worried they would end up dead or close to dead. They ended up playing really smart and surprised the heck out of all of us!

First they faced a rolling boulder coming from behind. They saw a kobold go running down the hall ahead of them, so they just barged on ahead. The pit trap missed both of them, and I described how it was designed to trigger when only more weight than a kobold or two was placed on it. One of them groaned that it was like all the traps in Dragon Mountain were compressed into the KPG, another joked that it was where the dragon sent the kobolds she didn't like (yes! Exactly what I was going for!) 

Second they faced floating bits of metal in a hallway with five potions of resistance with different labels. After hemming and hawing and throwing potions at the gelatinous cube, the paladin coated himself in the potion of acid resistance and made it across safely. The barbarian followed suit.

Third, the passage ahead and behind them was closed off by stone blocks and dire hornets began to pour into the chamber. A kobold trapped with them quickly ran in a panic and triggered a falling stone block which crushed it. The players' eyes sparkled as they said, "Wait, I recognize that!" The paladin took the lead again and did as the kobold did, getting covered in a hollow stone block which protected them from the hornets. The barbarian again followed suit. More joking followed about the paladin (having become notorious for triggering kobold traps) being the right person to send to the KPG.

Fourth they came to a foul-smelling hall with magical darkness hiding a monster eating kobold remains. They decided to just run for it (luckily they had a sunrod and no torches). They took poison damage.

At this point they came to a potential exit, but say a kobold get zapped trying to leave, so they continued looking for exits. Kobolds ran ahead of them, bemoaning their fates "we'll never be real kobolds!"

Fifth they came to the scything blades trap, and the paladin ducked right away, with the barbarian following suit. Te blades passed over their heads.

They came to another exit. A fleeing kobold got zapped going thru. Suspicious, the barbarian picked up the kobold corpse and threw it thru the exit again - et voila! They had solved the Kobold Proving Grounds and escaped back to the dragon fight!

The only thing bad about it was that it was a bit of a side quest in the midst of a complex boss fight, but the actual mechanics worked very well as a sort of "capstone trap". 
Glad to hear it.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy

I'm glad to hear it worked out

I have to say in any game what annoys me the most is having some horrible situation thrust on me and not knowing what I'm supposed to do about it. I always preferred games that demonstrated the rules with lighter consequences before moving on to the dire consequences, giving a chance to learn. It sounds like this is what you did, and why it worked, you established the nature of the traps in the past and then brought them all back for a gauntlet that challenged players without overwhelming them.
Yeah, exactly it. I do appreciate all the cautionary advice I got in this thread however. If it hadn't been for the dozen sessions of dungeon-crawling thru kobold traps galore, I probably would never have run something like this.
I'm glad it all worked out. Did the Barbarian or the Paladin use any skill checks while handling the trap, and if so did the skill challenge setup I suggested help?
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Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
I'm glad it all worked out. Did the Barbarian or the Paladin use any skill checks while handling the trap, and if so did the skill challenge setup I suggested help?


Yeah, I had your skill challenge by my side when I ran it. Turns out they only ever made one perception check between the two of them.