Forge Documents skill?

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im putting together a rogue/assassin character, and to evade the authorities if he gets caught slaying someone, im going to have him forge "wanted dead or alive" documents on behalf of some far off king. what skill would be appropriate for this? thievery? bluff?
thanks!   iFrame RemovediFrame Removed
The Bluff skill's entry in the PH explictly list forging documents as one of its uses, so I would go with that.  Though I could also see the arguement made for using History, either instead or in addition to the bluff, since History includes subjects such as laws and royalty.  Thievery has more to do with actions that require fine manual dexterity, which wouldn't be all that useful in forging a legal document.  Exactly forging a specific signiture however...
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I would use Theivery for actually making the document, and Bluff for actually using it.
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Or maybe the DM would let you pencil in a forgery skill or something.


Or just listen to Fireclave.  
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lol think ill go with Fires pointers, and have the DM fine tune it. thanks guys!iFrame RemovediFrame Removed
Might even go with a straight up Dex check if he is merely copying the documents, but if he is doing from memory or something then History or an Intelligence check may be appropriate with a Bluff to pass them off. Of course, if the rp was good I would probably just let it happen.

I like to be semi-kind to my players when it comes to skill issues; I would tell him it could be a Bluff or Thievery check; gives them the option to use a more optimal skill and higher rate of success.


You could also incorporate both.


It is a thievery skill to make the documents; but you must pass a bluff check to convince the guards you are whom you claim you are.

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Be careful about using more than one skill check if you think that the matter can be handled with only one skill check.  Multiple skill checks = more opportunities to fail, which in essence makes the skill check harder.  I used to see this happen all the time with certain DMs who seemed to think that a Wizard researching a subject in a library was one skill check, but a Fighter swimming a river was at least half a dozen skill checks and the Rogue sneaking into a house had to make over a dozen, over time.  Guess who failed more often, even with the higher skill?

Or, if you think multiple skills should be required or it's a complex task that should require multiple skill checks, consider turning it into a skill challenge, where one failed roll alone will not result in failure and each roll has a consequence that feeds into the next skill check.  For example, if you think both Thievery and Bluff need to be used to pull this off, make sure that if the Thievery check succeeds, the fact that you now have well-made forged docucments means that there should be a bonus of some sort to the Bluff check.  With a failure on the Thievery check you still have your forged documents, but they give a penalty to the Bluff check.

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Be careful about using more than one skill check if you think that the matter can be handled with only one skill check.  Multiple skill checks = more opportunities to fail, which in essence makes the skill check harder.  I used to see this happen all the time with certain DMs who seemed to think that a Wizard researching a subject in a library was one skill check, but a Fighter swimming a river was at least half a dozen skill checks and the Rogue sneaking into a house had to make over a dozen, over time.  Guess who failed more often, even with the higher skill?

Or, if you think multiple skills should be required or it's a complex task that should require multiple skill checks, consider turning it into a skill challenge, where one failed roll alone will not result in failure and each roll has a consequence that feeds into the next skill check.  For example, if you think both Thievery and Bluff need to be used to pull this off, make sure that if the Thievery check succeeds, the fact that you now have well-made forged docucments means that there should be a bonus of some sort to the Bluff check.  With a failure on the Thievery check you still have your forged documents, but they give a penalty to the Bluff check.

Yeah, I would make it an SC. Streetwise to find the right ink and paper, thievery to do the penmanship, bluff to make up a convincing looking poster, history could add a little flair to it, etc. Just get the player to tell you what they're doing next, break it down, etc. Each failure makes the thing less believable and overall success means it will fool whomever it was aimed at, or whatever.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
Another angle would be to do it old-school and roll for the PCs as the DM and not let the PCs know if it works or not until they are trying to pass it off. Kind of like old Thief skills in B/X...theyre not sure if they are successfully hidden or quiet. If you let them get a super high check or something, they will know it is nearly impossible for it not to work and could take away some of the fun.
Another angle would be to do it old-school and roll for the PCs as the DM and not let the PCs know if it works or not until they are trying to pass it off.


Excellent advice. Smile

I'd work forging documents into your backstory somehow, since it seems to be a unique shtick your character may fall back on in the campaign. As a DM, I'd honestly just say spending the money and having the forgery would give you a bonus on such Bluff checks, unless the person you're lying to happens to be particularly suspicious. If the person was particularly knowledgeable about this far-off kingdom, this kind of tactic might earn you a penalty instead.
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Another angle would be to do it old-school and roll for the PCs as the DM and not let the PCs know if it works or not until they are trying to pass it off.


Excellent advice.

I'd work forging documents into your backstory somehow, since it seems to be a unique shtick your character may fall back on in the campaign. As a DM, I'd honestly just say spending the money and having the forgery would give you a bonus on such Bluff checks, unless the person you're lying to happens to be particularly suspicious. If the person was particularly knowledgeable about this far-off kingdom, this kind of tactic might earn you a penalty instead.

There is a martial practice for that, but not too many people use them.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
The DM running should also consider whether this is going to be a roll against a fixxed target number or wether it will be a contested roll with an NPC rolling insight or perception against the PCs rolls.

Running joke/ oft retold story from our SAGA srarwars game was a 1 on the bluff and a 1 on the sense motive. PC had the higher bounus. "It's a fake code sir, but it checks out I was just about to clear them.
Also the 1 on perception vs 1 stealth (starship) -Soldier turns around and looks at guy behind him "Why do we even moniter these screens nothing ever happens?"- starship flys across screen exiting just before he turns back around.
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