What kind of abilities should a "High Level" fighter have?

The current 5e fighter doesn't have a whole lot of "interesting" abilities. Basically, he gains the ability to apply a d6 to whatever he does. He boils down to "more numbers the class".

So I was thinking about alternate uses for Expertise Dice and what types of effects they could produce, mostly drawing inspiration from the 3e warblade when it struck me. Just what should a high level fighter be capable of? By the time the wizard is a stone-skinned, flying, invisible, fireball hurling god of destruction, what should the fighter be doing?

Feel free to put down the top capabilities you would like for high level fighters.

For me it would be the option to strength so great that a fighter could easily outwrestle a giant. I'd also like to see options for fighters who can perform incredible near superhuman feats of athletics and endurance. Lastly, I would like to see fighter's who have interesting maneuvers that don't feature a single +X anywhere in them.

My 5e Homebrew Material

The Warblade: A Mythic Fighter

The Hero: A Modular Class

Near-superhuman isn't all that impressive, in game terms. Something like "easily outwrestling a giant" would fall into the "clearly super-human" category, and if that's the case, then I'm going to suggest "leaps tall buildings in a single bound". Granted, these are pseudo-Medieval "tall" buildings, so that's maybe thirty feet tall, but still.

The metagame is not the game.

High level fighters should combine styles and stances or something similar where they have overarching effects that last the entire combat in addition to manuevers that may start combining effects.
I'd like to see them plausibly capable of tackling whatever "power level" of challenges other characters of the same level are expected to be able to tackle, without being forced into the role of "magical Warmachine" (where the character's capabilities are almost entirely equipment derived).
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Wresting Dragons.  Leading Armies to victory.  Breaking Giants with their barehands.  Demolish structures by themselves.
Slice MOUNTAIN in half.

Hoowah.

 

I'm collecting suggestions and feedback on a tabletop game system I'm fiddling with (the subject of my blog). It's going to be a hotbed of experimental stuff inspired from lots of different sources (with much of it based off of mechanics in DnD and other d20-die based games like Pathfinder and 13th Age).

 

http://community.wizards.com/content/blog/4200731

While the fighter class is a flexible one, encompassing everything from knights-in-shining-armor to snipers to gladiatorial wrestlers, it actually has a fairly narrow focus: the fighter is the best at fighting. He is the best at using his weapons (which might be his fists or other body parts) to make his enemies on the battlefield dead and keep his allies on the battlefield safe.

He can get there with different routes: he is some combination of technical master of his chosen fighting style, skilled tactician, inspirational figure, insightful Zen master, and die-hard survivor. The proportion of those attributes is dependent on his build/style (not to mention his ability score distribution, which is why the class should be designed to take advantage of Int, Cha, Wis, and Con more effectively).

(And yes, a barbarian can be at least as good a die-hard survivor, and a paladin or bard can be an inspirational figure, and a warlord is an even more skilled tactician. There is room for overlap.)

At high levels, this doesn't mean that every fighter should be able to smash down an iron door with one blow, or survive being swallowed by a Terrasque, or mastermind a castle siege that lets a few dozen peasant conscripts take down a reinforced Orc stronghold, or catch an arrow while blindfolded. But he should be able to specialize enough to do at least one of those things.

TL;DR: The fighter class needs a return of developed Styles that take better advantage of secondary ability scores and scale up into high-level abilities. 
Instantly kill a foe with a single blow.

Throw a weapon to deadly effect (that isn't designed to be thrown).

Jump beyond olympic heights.

Jump beyond olympic distances.

Run faster than olympic speeds.

Hold back 1000 foes in a corridor.

Wield anything as a deadly weapon (I kill him with this tin cup).

Stun opponents with a roar.

Drive lesser foes from the battlefield in fear of him.

Knock opponents into the air with attacks.

Trip/knock over every opponent in reach.

Knock back every opponent in reach.

Knock a single opponent across a room.

Lift opponents off their feet regardless of their size.

Strike opponents beyond the reach of a normal warrior.



...



That'd be a good start.

When are we going to start seeing Fighters lvl 11+ do some things like that? 
I remember that one list where someone's example of an epic level figher's epic abilities started off with kicking a door in. Boy that was terrible.

Punching camels.

 

I just said something and you just read it. Sorry about that.

Never, because the traditional concept of the fighter is too broad and non-specific to allow it to have cool moves.

That's why it's been parted up into Ranger, paladin, warlord, assassin, barbarian, and dozens of others over the years.

It needs to either be removed entirely or it needs to be given a defined purpose. Sort of like how 4e made it a premeire melee defender. If the fighter is defined as the weapon master then it can have epic moves and tricks based on their weapons (including improvised ones), so they could use a spiked chain to whirlwind like someone crossed an air elemental with a demon, or a great hammer to send shockwaves or even cause the earth to move. If defined as a weapon based killer it needs to focus more on sheer damage and multi-attacking. Defined as a strong man it needs those wrestling and leaping powers. 

Basically until the fighter has a purpose he's never gonna get to be awesome.

It doesn't even have to be a class wide purpose, you could offer a choice within the fighter class about what your purpose is, like the earlier fighting styles, but not lame.

So I was thinking about alternate uses for Expertise Dice and what types of effects they could produce, mostly drawing inspiration from the 3e warblade when it struck me. Just what should a high level fighter be capable of? By the time the wizard is a stone-skinned, flying, invisible, fireball hurling god of destruction, what should the fighter be doing?

Feel free to put down the top capabilities you would like for high level fighters.

For me it would be the option to strength so great that a fighter could easily outwrestle a giant. I'd also like to see options for fighters who can perform incredible near superhuman feats of athletics and endurance. Lastly, I would like to see fighter's who have interesting maneuvers that don't feature a single +X anywhere in them.



Ok, here's some thoughts:

1. Zooming around the battlefield - charge attacks, jump attacks, etc. 
2. The best swordslinger ever, knocking their weapons flying, turning their attacks back on them, making them miserable with status effects, when not slicing them to pieces. 
3. Physical dominance over their enemies, tossing groups of them around the battlefield like ninepins, knocking them down and trampling them underfoot. 
4. The Determinator - the Unstoppable Manuevers were one of the few genuine improvements to the class, and a Fighter just shrugging off magic because they're just that fast/tough/strong-willed is awesome and really ties into the inspiration behind the class. 

Race for the Iron Throne - political and historical analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire.
I remember that one list where someone's example of an epic level figher's epic abilities started off with kicking a door in. Boy that was terrible.



Was that the post that followed up with being able to attack multiple opponents in a round?

Because it seems like that's the guy who's actually on the WotC design team. 
Instantly kill a foe with a single blow.

Throw a weapon to deadly effect (that isn't designed to be thrown).

Jump beyond olympic heights.

Jump beyond olympic distances.

Run faster than olympic speeds.

Hold back 1000 foes in a corridor.

Wield anything as a deadly weapon (I kill him with this tin cup).

Stun opponents with a roar.

Drive lesser foes from the battlefield in fear of him.

Knock opponents into the air with attacks.

Trip/knock over every opponent in reach.

Knock back every opponent in reach.

Knock a single opponent across a room.

Lift opponents off their feet regardless of their size.

Strike opponents beyond the reach of a normal warrior.



...

 



I'm inspired again, let's add:


Parry an attack, totally negating it.

Ignore magical complusion.

See through illusions.

Fight on beyond death.

Make every opponent on the battlefield focus on them.

Dive in front of attacks meant for an ally, taking them instead.

Push an adjacent ally out of the way of an attack entirely.

Shield an adjacent ally, extending their defences to them.

In addition to most of the stuff people listed above the Fighter should be able to:

-Deflect magical attacks with his weapon and/or shield(see: Link vs Gannon fights)
-Run several times faster than olympic sprinters. A 100 yard dash in 3 seconds while running shouldn't be unreasonable.
-Have near limitless endurance. The Fighter should be able to run at a full sprint for several days and be in fighting shape at the end. 
-Knock enemies back more than 5ft without having to follow them.
-Shrug off status effects
Instantly kill a foe with a single blow.

Throw a weapon to deadly effect (that isn't designed to be thrown).

Jump beyond olympic heights.

Jump beyond olympic distances.

Run faster than olympic speeds.

Hold back 1000 foes in a corridor.

Wield anything as a deadly weapon (I kill him with this tin cup).

Stun opponents with a roar.

Drive lesser foes from the battlefield in fear of him.

Knock opponents into the air with attacks.

Trip/knock over every opponent in reach.

Knock back every opponent in reach.

Knock a single opponent across a room.

Lift opponents off their feet regardless of their size.

Strike opponents beyond the reach of a normal warrior.



...

 



...

Parry an attack, totally negating it.

Ignore magical complusion.

See through illusions.

Fight on beyond death.

Make every opponent on the battlefield focus on them.

Dive in front of attacks meant for an ally, taking them instead.

Push an adjacent ally out of the way of an attack entirely.

Shield an adjacent ally, extending their defences to them.




Thanks Seerow, you have inspired me again:


Shrug off effects without penalty.

Parry ranged attacks.

Parry magical attacks.

Survive for extended periods without oxygen/food/water.

Regenerate from any wound. 
Well you can go into 2 main directions depending on the kind of game you like.

A) The route of becoming a force in the world gaining a stronghold and folowers like in 2nd edition.
B) keep gaining parsonal power maybe even aspire goodhood.

This to me seems a perfect place to go modular.
The legecy system they mentioned would cater to A
And maybe a Epic Destiny system would cater to B


 
Well you can go into 2 main directions depending on the kind of game you like.

A) The route of becoming a force in the world gaining a stronghold and folowers like in 2nd edition.
B) keep gaining parsonal power maybe even aspire goodhood.

This to me seems a perfect place to go modular.
The legecy system they mentioned would cater to A
And maybe a Epic Destiny system would cater to B


 



Those both sound like excellent background expansions for high level characters of any class.

Now, what about the maneuvres and other class features?

THOSE are the kinds of things I've been talking about. 
Until I see more support for levels 11-20, I am pretending like they don't exist. Not enough spells, class abilities, monsters, or especially feats/legacies/prestiges/paragons-etc. to make a judgment call on how strong it is. I was under the impression that levels 11-20 would be considered "epic" in the same way that 21-30 was in 4E and 21-40 was in 3E.
My vision of the D&D Next Fighter is one of lineage and opportunity. One of the biggest charges people lay on the Fighter is that it's the master of improvisation -- most of the famous stories I've heard involve the Fighter's player deciding to try something clever, and having it work swimmingly. In my mind, that is the legacy of the Fighter as much as weapons, armour and excellence in combat. The logical way to approach Fighter progression, then, is to look at what barriers there are in the way of a Fighter attempting improvisations -- and what kind of features can be implemented to encourage players without bestowing hardwired functions.

At higher levels of play, these features would unravel the limitations, and in epic levels the limitations would fall to the barest minimums. They'd begin to ignore object damage resistances with weapon attacks, they'd gain more out of combat utility with weapons (for instance, a feature might allow them to use a weapon they're wielding with as finesse as they might use their fingers). A high-level fighter, in my ideal system, would be noteworthy for being unpredictable and having legendarily unorthodox tactics and skills with weapons.
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
Instantly kill a foe with a single blow.

Throw a weapon to deadly effect (that isn't designed to be thrown).

Jump beyond olympic heights.

Jump beyond olympic distances.

Run faster than olympic speeds.

Hold back 1000 foes in a corridor.

Wield anything as a deadly weapon (I kill him with this tin cup).

Stun opponents with a roar.

Drive lesser foes from the battlefield in fear of him.

Knock opponents into the air with attacks.

Trip/knock over every opponent in reach.

Knock back every opponent in reach.

Knock a single opponent across a room.

Lift opponents off their feet regardless of their size.

Strike opponents beyond the reach of a normal warrior.



...



That'd be a good start.

When are we going to start seeing Fighters lvl 11+ do some things like that? 




Actually, not everyone wants to play nearly superhuman war machines.  As it stands, I can stick to lower levels to better emulate the gritty feel that I and my players usually enjoy, but incuding the above examples into the class from its outset would detract greatly from my enjoyment of the game.

This speaks to a large problem with how people percieve the proposed inclusivity of next.  Sometimes, it's simply not possible for everyone to get their way.  We can't have a standard ruleset that simultaneously supports Kratos and Musashi (despite his overwhelming real world badassery).

This is what I was trying to drunkenly touch on earlier when I mentioned game design as a zero sum game.  While it's certainly possible for the devs to include both the warlord as a full class, the ideal implementation for some people, and as a subset of the fighter, the ideal implimentiation for others, practical concerns of publishing make that unlikely.  I believe the same to be true with the fighter as well.
Instantly kill a foe with a single blow.

Throw a weapon to deadly effect (that isn't designed to be thrown).

Jump beyond olympic heights.

Jump beyond olympic distances.

Run faster than olympic speeds.

Hold back 1000 foes in a corridor.

Wield anything as a deadly weapon (I kill him with this tin cup).

Stun opponents with a roar.

Drive lesser foes from the battlefield in fear of him.

Knock opponents into the air with attacks.

Trip/knock over every opponent in reach.

Knock back every opponent in reach.

Knock a single opponent across a room.

Lift opponents off their feet regardless of their size.

Strike opponents beyond the reach of a normal warrior.



...



That'd be a good start.

When are we going to start seeing Fighters lvl 11+ do some things like that? 




Actually, not everyone wants to play nearly superhuman war machines.  As it stands, I can stick to lower levels to better emulate the gritty feel that I and my players usually enjoy, but incuding the above examples into the class from its outset would detract greatly from my enjoyment of the game.

This speaks to a large problem with how people percieve the proposed inclusivity of next.  Sometimes, it's simply not possible for everyone to get their way.  We can't have a standard ruleset that simultaneously supports Kratos and Musashi (despite his overwhelming real world badassery).

This is what I was trying to drunkenly touch on earlier when I mentioned game design as a zero sum game.  While it's certainly possible for the devs to include both the warlord as a full class, the ideal implementation for some people, and as a subset of the fighter, the ideal implimentiation for others, practical concerns of publishing make that unlikely.  I believe the same to be true with the fighter as well.



So, you don't allow Wizards in your games, right?

Or Clerics.

Or Druids.

Or any full casters.

Because, as you JUST SAID YOURSELF "I can stick to lower levels to better emulate the gritty feel that I and my players usually enjoy".

Nobody is suggesting these kinds of powers in the game up to lvl 10, we are suggesting them for lvl 11+.

The "epic" game.

And if they are optional, so you can just ignore them if you don't like them, how can them being included so that those of us who DO like them have ANY negative impact on you? 
 

So, you don't allow Wizards in your games, right?

Or Clerics.

Or Druids.

Or any full casters.

Because, as you JUST SAID YOURSELF "I can stick to lower levels to better emulate the gritty feel that I and my players usually enjoy".



I don't understand what you're trying to imply here.  Most casting classes in the edition of DND that I play regularly are also fine at lower levels.


Nobody is suggesting these kinds of powers in the game up to lvl 10, we are suggesting them for lvl 11+.

The "epic" game.



Uh, that's a *HUGE* assumption on your part, especially since both of the last two editions didn't consider characters to be epic until after 20.


And if they are optional, so you can just ignore them if you don't like them, how can them being included so that those of us who DO like them have ANY negative impact on you? 



Uh, again, I don't understand exactly what you're trying to say here given the context of my previous statement.  I'm not talking about optional content, I'm talking about two mutually exclusive concepts that can't simultaneously exist within the same class frame work.

If I wasn't clear, I apologize.



in order for the game to be balanced, and it has to be if they want to sell to most new players or anyone who liked 4e, then every class needs to be at about the same power level. this means that fighters MUST get superhuman ablilies so they can compete with casters.

not saying it has to be at level 1 but you can't limit fighters to what we can do in the real work while giving casters almost unlimited power at later levels and have a balanced game.
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
in order for the game to be balanced, and it has to be if they want to sell to most new players or anyone who liked 4e, then every class needs to be at about the same power level. this means that fighters MUST get superhuman ablilies so they can compete with casters.

not saying it has to be at level 1 but you can't limit fighters to what we can do in the real work while giving casters almost unlimited power at later levels and have a balanced game.



The other end of the spectrum is to limit caster potency in such a fashion so as to not require superhuman antics in order for other character classes to be effective.
in order for the game to be balanced, and it has to be if they want to sell to most new players or anyone who liked 4e, then every class needs to be at about the same power level. this means that fighters MUST get superhuman ablilies so they can compete with casters.

not saying it has to be at level 1 but you can't limit fighters to what we can do in the real work while giving casters almost unlimited power at later levels and have a balanced game.



The other end of the spectrum is to limit caster potency in such a fashion so as to not require superhuman antics in order for other character classes to be effective.




Sure.

But they've already failed to do that.

So that brings us here.

Looking at cool things Fighters could do post lvl 11.

No-one is telling you that these things should come in from the beginning of the game,

But something is needed in the later game. 
I think fighters have been a little underserved in the toughness department. In 3.5, they're near or at the top of the heap in terms of survivablity early on, but eventually everyone gets enough hit points that being the guy who can take a hit or two isn't that special, and threats that the fighter is not nearly as well prepared to handle become more common. A class with two poor saves (the most and least important ones) and no particular features to deal with being shut down isn't particularly hard to shut down. Ignoring for a moment the gameplay ramifications of a character that's several times harder to put down than another character, it would be really cool if high level fighters really got to be the guy who clearly can take just a pile of punishment (at least as a developmental option; also possible is the guy who is really difficult to tag with anything). In 3.5, will save progression (at least in the PHB) is based mostly on whether or not you're magical. With the exception of the Monk, you get a good will save if you cast spells at level 1 and a poor will save if you don't. This leaves the fighter not particularly capable of being the shrug-it-off guy. A high level fighter might spare one of his surfeit of feats on Iron Will and is probably getting a boost from his gear, but there's a reason fighters are famously the guy you target with a will save spell.

It would be sweet if the high-level fighter (barbarians can come too) could be the guy who's just incredibly difficult to put down, while still being enough of a menace that you can't just ignore him. Where the paladin's discipline meets the barbarian's determination you get the guy who refuses to go down or stay down.

Incredible unstoppability is hard to do well; not only does the game benefit from things being slightly tilted towards the offensive, but you still want players to care about threats. One sort of tame implementation might be something like the Crusader's delayed damage pool. That even had nice offensive features attached to it.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
Versatility and excellency  with the tools of the trade.
 

So, you don't allow Wizards in your games, right?

Or Clerics.

Or Druids.

Or any full casters.

Because, as you JUST SAID YOURSELF "I can stick to lower levels to better emulate the gritty feel that I and my players usually enjoy".



I don't understand what you're trying to imply here.  Most casting classes in the edition of DND that I play regularly are also fine at lower levels.



So you are ok with caster characters doing these kind of things, but non non-casters?


Nobody is suggesting these kinds of powers in the game up to lvl 10, we are suggesting them for lvl 11+.

The "epic" game.



Uh, that's a *HUGE* assumption on your part, especially since both of the last two editions didn't consider characters to be epic until after 20.



Hardly, the developers have gone out of their way to make it clear that lvl 10 is the new "cutoff".

They've talked about their own concept for lvl 11+ as being the equivalent to "epic destinies".

And this is the clear cutoff in all the class design where features taper off... unless you are lucky enough to be a caster.


And if they are optional, so you can just ignore them if you don't like them, how can them being included so that those of us who DO like them have ANY negative impact on you? 



Uh, again, I don't understand exactly what you're trying to say here given the context of my previous statement.  I'm not talking about optional content, I'm talking about two mutually exclusive concepts that can't simultaneously exist within the same class frame work.

If I wasn't clear, I apologize.



Hey, it's ok, we all of us don't communicate as well as we could around here.

I'm all about modular options, I'm suggesting features which would make GREAT modular options for people like me who want Fighters to be interesting, engaging and mechanically powerful beyond lvl 10.

But I'd prefer that they ARE optional so that people like you don't have to use them if you don't want.

One of the biggest charges people lay on the Fighter is that it's the master of improvisation -- most of the famous stories I've heard involve the Fighter's player deciding to try something clever, and having it work swimmingly. In my mind, that is the legacy of the Fighter as much as weapons, armour and excellence in combat.

In a way that's pretty sad.  OK, Mr. Fighter, your big thing is that you get nuthin, so you have to make it up as you go.  

One of the few things the fighter had going for him in classic D&D was some pretty butch saving throws at high level.  That still left him unable to do much of anything unless he had some awesome magic items, but, along with plenty of hps, it at least made him a sturdy platform to mount those items on.  Something to consider for the 5e fighter, then:  saving throw bonuses.  :sigh:  In a way, that's pretty sad, too.  When you think back to the 1e fighter, you tend to think he had nothing, no feats or exploits or maneuvers or anything cool.  But, he did have % STR, multiple attacks, more hps from high CON than other classes, the best combat matrix, and those butch saves at high level.   That's a lot of stuff for the 5e fighter to look back enviously upon.



 

 

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This is why I think they've gone down the "lead other fighters" route in the past for high-level fighters. Basically they don't get anything new because it's assumed that everyone and anyone can try (not succeed, mind) doing most or all of what the fighter does anyway. Once they've gained the stuff that notes mastery of their fighting style, they need another thing to do and the image of the veteran leading raw recruits is a strong narrative in any genre.

Ok the packet just earned a fail point for making the 1e fighter sound like a good deal.

This is why I think they've gone down the "lead other fighters" route in the past for high-level fighters.


So far, all they've done is said, maybe there'll be a companion module.  So Rangers and Druids can have bearfriends, and wizard can have psuedragon/imp/quasit/etc familiars, maybe a fighter will get a 'squire' or something.  He'd be better off with the 3e leadership feat and a spellcasting cohort.


 

 

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This is why I think they've gone down the "lead other fighters" route in the past for high-level fighters.

So far, all they've done is said, maybe there'll be a companion module.  So Rangers and Druids can have bearfriends, and wizard can have psuedragon/imp/quasit/etc familiars, maybe a fighter will get a 'squire' or something.  He'd be better off with the 3e leadership feat and a spellcasting cohort.

*shrug* I think the whole game could do with a bit more at high level. Fighters are just the punching bag folks enjoy hitting most.

*shrug* I think the whole game could do with a bit more at high level. Fighters are just the punching bag folks enjoy hitting most.

Thus all the hps?

 

 

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*shrug* I think the whole game could do with a bit more at high level. Fighters are just the punching bag folks enjoy hitting most.

Thus all the hps?

Indeed!

But seriously I suspect we'll see a lot of that "fold warlord into the fighter" manifest itself as highbie fighter powers. What we've seen in the expertise stuff is them testing the water.

But seriously I suspect we'll see a lot of that "fold warlord into the fighter" manifest itself as highbie fighter powers. What we've seen in the expertise stuff is them testing the water.

That'd be pretty aweful.  The Peter Principle applied to the poor beleagured fighter class.  OK, you've been hitting things with a sharp stick for 11 levels, now, time to go into management...

 

 

Oops, looks like this request tried to create an infinite loop. We do not allow such things here. We are a professional website!

But seriously I suspect we'll see a lot of that "fold warlord into the fighter" manifest itself as highbie fighter powers. What we've seen in the expertise stuff is them testing the water.

That'd be pretty aweful.  The Peter Principle applied to the poor beleagured fighter class.  OK, you've been hitting things with a sharp stick for 11 levels, now, time to go into management...

I don't see it that way, and I don't think that'll be the only option. The weapon master PrC is ripe for being folded into the fighter as well. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if we were given a variety of options and we've got a lot of bolt ons, prestige classes and combat styles from previous editions to rob for ideas.

One of the biggest charges people lay on the Fighter is that it's the master of improvisation -- most of the famous stories I've heard involve the Fighter's player deciding to try something clever, and having it work swimmingly. In my mind, that is the legacy of the Fighter as much as weapons, armour and excellence in combat.

In a way that's pretty sad.  OK, Mr. Fighter, your big thing is that you get nuthin, so you have to make it up as you go.  

One of the few things the fighter had going for him in classic D&D was some pretty butch saving throws at high level.  That still left him unable to do much of anything unless he had some awesome magic items, but, along with plenty of hps, it at least made him a sturdy platform to mount those items on.  Something to consider for the 5e fighter, then:  saving throw bonuses.  :sigh:  In a way, that's pretty sad, too.  When you think back to the 1e fighter, you tend to think he had nothing, no feats or exploits or maneuvers or anything cool.  But, he did have % STR, multiple attacks, more hps from high CON than other classes, the best combat matrix, and those butch saves at high level.   That's a lot of stuff for the 5e fighter to look back enviously upon.






 We had an AD&D fighter level up a couple of weeks ago. He got more than the D&DN fighter. By level 10 he can probably expect some decent magical items to strap onto the chasis as well. d20 mechanics, AD&D type fighter, powers and similar abilites can be gaine via feats or whatever. Recycle the 3.5 fighter, upskill him and boom done really.

 Oh yeah don't nerf the class and then buff spellcasters like they did in AD&D-3rd ed. Ooops.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Well you can go into 2 main directions depending on the kind of game you like.

A) The route of becoming a force in the world gaining a stronghold and folowers like in 2nd edition.
B) keep gaining parsonal power maybe even aspire goodhood.

This to me seems a perfect place to go modular.
The legecy system they mentioned would cater to A
And maybe a Epic Destiny system would cater to B


 



Those both sound like excellent background expansions for high level characters of any class.

Now, what about the maneuvres and other class features?

THOSE are the kinds of things I've been talking about. 



Wel you will probebly get 2nd specialty at level 11 giving you more feats.
at levels 11/12/15/18.

and the legecy or epic destiny system would give it's powers on levels 13/16/19
Instantly kill a foe with a single blow.

Throw a weapon to deadly effect (that isn't designed to be thrown).

Jump beyond olympic heights.

Jump beyond olympic distances.

Run faster than olympic speeds.

Hold back 1000 foes in a corridor.

Wield anything as a deadly weapon (I kill him with this tin cup).

Stun opponents with a roar.

Drive lesser foes from the battlefield in fear of him.

Knock opponents into the air with attacks.

Trip/knock over every opponent in reach.

Knock back every opponent in reach.

Knock a single opponent across a room.

Lift opponents off their feet regardless of their size.

Strike opponents beyond the reach of a normal warrior.



...



That'd be a good start.

When are we going to start seeing Fighters lvl 11+ do some things like that? 



  I like these.  I'd like to add some more...

  Fighting nearby enemies almost as well, if not just as well, while blinded.

  Ability to turn almost anything they pick up- up to and including stuff like uprooted tree trunks- into an effective weapon.

  Ability to shrug off effects like paralysis, petrification, poisons, etc.

  Inherent damage reduction.

  Ability to bypass damage reduction and immunities.

  Ability to recover from debilitating wounds in a fraction of the time of other classes.

  ...I have to leave for work, but I'm sure I can come up with more.
   
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