3/24/2013 - You Make the Card #4 - Enchantment

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For discussion of the third vote for You Make the Card: What color of enchantment should this card be?
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Red is clearly the dark horse.
It's not clear what might be
In an enchantment of the colour
Relatively enchantment-free.

In a way, it's quite a restriction
What aspects could we fit?
But that's why in this situation
My excitement boils for it.

Vote excitment. Vote restriction.
Vote for love, joy and passion.

Vote red.
It should be white.

Fundamentally altering the rules of the game falls into white's portion of the color pie, so making it white lets us choose the most unique and interesting major effects.
so, numbers -

White has 391 enchantments, 162 in Modern, 32 in Standard
Blue has 353 enchantments, 148 in Modern, 28 in Standard
Black has 305 enchantments, 132 in Modern, 31 in Standard
Red has 264 enchantments, 106 in Modern, 23 in Standard
Green has 298 enchantments, 126 in Modern, 23 in Standard
(multicolored, both gold and hybrid, are not counted)

White is obviously king, while red has the least, but whether that says anything about untapped/overtapped areas, designer preferences, player expectations, etc., is all up to interpretation.

Discuss!
Green or Black.
Waiting a whole week for this is dumb.
I like black, because I'm interested in having something with alternative costs.
Both black and white have some of the games best control enchantments, with white clearly in the lead. blue follows them up with some fun enchantments of it own doing its own form of crazy. Green enchantments almost always pack a wolop in some way or another, but usual only effect creatures or mana both on or off the broad. Red seems to have the short end of the stick enchantment wise and i feel that even with the limited design room give by red that it is the best choice for craziness.

Vote red for something off beat and fun?
I could get behind red. Things like Madcap Skills and Five-Alarm Fire are fun. We could hopefully make something a tiny bit stronger.
I think later on when we have more detailed and complex decisions to make, it would make sense for us to wait a full week, but I don't think color is a full week decision.

I would vote for Red or Blue. While all colors have interesting enchantments, the most "out there" seem to be those colors: e.g., Confusion in the Ranks or Hive Mind

Personally, I'm voting red, but I could see blue as well. Of course, maybe "out there" isn't what everyone wants, but those people are no fun!
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I could go for red, but I'd want to do something that doesn't push the aggro/fast burn side of red (as that side of red gets plenty of attention already). And yes, probably a bit crazy.
D&D rules were never meant to exist without the presence of a DM. RAW is a lie.
Sour grapes! well.... since your #teamenchantment won, I'm sure that blue will win out also *sigh*  Seriously though, is multicolor not an option?
Anything but White.  Serously, the last thing we need to design is another Crusade or Oblivion Ring variant.

Green can give some interesting library search effects.  Timmy would love a green enchantment that gets or makes a big creature or gets land.

Red can mess with damage math, combat math, and spellcasting math. 

Black can do anything we want to.  

Blue can mess with hands and libraries, and that could be interesting.  Griefer Timmy would love a blue enchantment.  


So my vote is for anything but white.   
    
I would prefer if we don't start off with choosing a color. Why? That will restrict ideas/innovation. Why can't we start with a mechanic suggestions and once the mechanics are finalized, then the most appropriate color is chosen. I know that would mean that you will have all sort of suggestions, but at least there won't be retrictions on our imagination.
My personal preference would be something red that's artifact-centric to go in my Bosh Commander deck, but that's just my self-centered-ness talking.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

So let's review. We were given the option to vote for several card types, and we chose enchantement. That's good -- it's not a creature so it won't be attacking and it's not a land so it won't be tapping for mana, but it is a permanent. This is different. It gives us room to do whatever we want, it can give bonuses to creatures or mana, or it could do something entirely different. So now we have to choose one of five colors: Green, White, Black, Red or Blue. Of course, all of these colors have their benefits. To recap:
     Green is all about creatures and land. Huge creatures and a lot of land. The majority of green instants, sorceries and enchantments go to getting more land and bigger creatures. This creates a problem for green enchantments -- there really isn't much wiggle room, and there's not that much interesting stuff to be done with a green enchantment. Green just doesn't rely on enchantments in and of themselves.
     Doing a search on rare enchantments, I found that most of them center around gaining life. And really, that's what white is good at: gaining life, preventing damage and getting lots of small creatures that build off of each other. White does have a lot of enchantments, but they either freeze up the opponent (preventing damage, keeping creatures from attacking, etc.) or give the controller a few small benefits (gaining life, getting small tokens, etc.). There are of course also the enchantments that give counters and abilities to creatures, but in my opinion that somewhat defeats the point of choosing enchantment. We can do the funnest, crazyest, differentest things with enchantments, instead of giving bonuses to other permanents.
     Black could potentially be a very interesting enchantment choice. I think black is often overlooked as far as enchantments go, but it has some of the most interesting enchantments out there. Of course the problem with black is it tends to be highly specialized. You have to be willing to pay life, creatures or cards to play and maintain black enchantments, or you have to keep certain 'conditions' of the card, similer to a cumulative upkeep. When they aren't specialized, black cards target everybody -- 'if I can't have it, neither can you.' You know, the kinds that make everybody lose life or discard their hands, and still sometimes only if you meet the conditions. All in all I tend to find black enchantments rather infuriating, because they rarely give me a direct benefit.
     Everybody wants to do red. Why? Because there aren't many red enchantments. Now I commend your desire to do something out-of-the-box, but is making it red the best way to do this? No. There is a reason red doesn't have many enchantments -- they act exactly like red instants and sorceries, but they cost more and stay longer. Red wins by dealing damage in one of two ways. It makes mob decks with lots of tiny irritating creatures and then a few dragons, or it just deals direct damage with instants and sorceries. Usually both. Red is rarely, if ever, creative. Now there's definitely something to be said for taking the direct approach and just blowing things up, but it's often not very interesting. What we want is something new, weird, wild and totally ours. Red isn't going to serve well for that purpose.
     And now we get to blue. Hive Mind, Eye of the Storm, Infinite Reflection, Omniscience -- enchantments are where blue shows it's craziness. Sure, blue usually leans on instants and sorceries, but when it uses enchantments, the enchantments are epic. Blue isn't perfect, or course. Blue is sometimes a little too indirect and unreliable. But the thing about blue is a blue enchantment can be anything. It can target anything. It can do anything. And it will do it in the weirdest, funnest way, and have sarcastic flavor text. Seriously, blue has the most sarcastic flavor text of any color. Besides magic is a game of the intellect, and that's where blue shines.
I would prefer if we don't start off with choosing a color. Why? That will restrict ideas/innovation. Why can't we start with a mechanic suggestions and once the mechanics are finalized, then the most appropriate color is chosen. I know that would mean that you will have all sort of suggestions, but at least there won't be retrictions on our imagination.

The problem with that is that choosing a mechanic first effectively locks us into a color anyway, or at least a very restrictive subset.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Traditionally Green global enchantments have revolved around themes such as draw manipulation and mana ramping, in other words the focus is on you and the way that you structure your deck. Sylvan Library, Primitive Etchings, Mana Reflection, etc are examples of this.
There has been a minor theme where you lock down blue and black, but color hate for color hate's sake does not make for very interesting gameplay.
Buffing your creatures also seems to have been delegated more to white these days, with the exception being auras which play more towards the kind of jankiness that casual players like.

Summary: Focuses on your deck and your mana. Not very interactive. Boring auras.

White enchantments play around with the board, using moat and taxation effects to change the way combat and casting is done. This makes for interesting card design, but people seem to forget that magic involves more than one player, and there is nothing more annoying than a white player who forces you to pay to cast a llanowar elves.
White has also seem anthem effects play a major role, with crusade and intangible virtue being excellent examples. Not really the kind of thing we want to do here though. White auras on the other hand have played important roles in casual decks and more recently in formal constructed formats (I will count Oblivion Ring as an aura because it kinda is). Shackles type effects and creature protection has always allowed casual players to protect their big dragon or angel, and could be one way to go. Seems a bit of a waste though to go for a local effect.

Summary: Plays heavily towards either anthem or lockdown. Danger of going too far with lockdown. Nice aura potential, but most too straight forward in their effects.

Black Enchantments do one thing very well. They let you kill things, then they let you kill more things. Pestilence and Fear were just the beginning, and over the years we have seen many a black enchantment screw up board positions.
Another major theme with black has been draw. Phyrexian Arena is a black EDH staple, and Yawgmoth's Bargain is banned in most formats for a good reason. Who doesn't like more cards in their hands?
Lastly, the Lich effect. The problem here is that the effect itself is so powerful, that there is always a huge downside. Usually so large that most people just can't fit the card into their decks unless they have specific combos in mind. These are not good cards for the casual player.

The interesting thing with black is that you can put the jankiest of abilities on their enchantments as long as you put a corresponding downside. Life loss, card disadvantage, etc balance the insane power that these enchantments provide. Of course, Wizards have made some exceptions over the years but they usually balance this with mana costs that only allow them to be played in casual (I'm looking at you wound reflection...).

Summary: Board control, draw, and game loss prevention. Large potential for design space as you can play around with balancing bad effects. problem however that the balance aspect usually goes a little too far for most players and relegates the card to the 50 cent rare bin at your local games store.

Red enchantments are the punishers of the game. There is nothing that you can do that Red can't find a way to make you pay for. Tapping creatures, lands, attacking, etc. All can present their buttocks to the whip of the Red mistress. Again however, you tend to find that the two-edged blade that these enchantments present throws off most players from using these cards.
Luck is also a huge factor with Red, letting you do things like take extra turns, or clear the board. Unreliability however plays a large factor, and most people just don't like the risk of the spell fizzling out on them. Flipping coins or rolling dice also are a chore if you have to do it multiple times, so anything revolving around such a mechanic has to be careful not to go too far.
Red auras? Straightfoward for the most part. Creature damage, and more creature damage, with a touch of haste here and there. Boring for the most part.

Summary: Boring auras, but interesting design space otherwise. Unreliability and double-edged effects however are usually turnoffs for the average player.

Blue. They screw with your mind and take victory in the blink of an eye. Future Sight, Omniscience, Thought Reflection etc... So many janky enchantments over the years, so many ways to combo off... If you want a broken combo card, Blue is your best bet.
Aura wise Blue has tended to be the color that lets you slip past your opponent's creatures and spells. Not sure what kind of card you could make for YMtC that goes beyond this or card draw, but it has potential.

Summary: Blue is BROKEN, need I say more? Shroud/Hexproof auras combined with unblockable and draw effects usually make for interesting casual or draft play.


I am not going to go into multi-color, as you just have to pick and choose from the above effects for the colors in question. It could be interesting though to see a Planar Chaos type enchantment that does things outside traditional color wheels (which I doubt is possible since Wizards has already ruled this out in their introduction article for the week).

My personal choice? Black + Red - Something that introduces a punishment effect to the board while at the same time it rewards players for actively pursuing the activity that triggers punishment.
Is it too late to get one of those "Don't blame me I voted Land" Shirts?

Or Oh, a nice Avatar?

I would be happy with either a White or Black enchantment... though I think we should have done Sub-type before color (Aura VS Global (which includes Shrines and similar types))

Can we make an enchant land that turns the land into a creature (Zendikon)? Hit as many card types that lost the vote as possible.
Well, I'm very relieved that enchantment won, so that's that.

I am currently torn between black and red. I know if we go black we will most likely end up with something super cool, but I feel red deserves this. Will wait a little before I decide.

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Let's be generous here and give *everyone* a bit of *possibility*.

COLORLESS

For example, this brings up some interesting possibilities:


  • usable in a wide variety of decks if it matches the archetype, regardless of color

  • can still have colorful interaction, such as:


    • a mana-battery type enchantment, or

    • a clone-type card that lets you replace color/creature-type words with others, or

    • a saner version of what the card Tek (the dragon) tried to do

    • etc.


  • flavor:


    • a "Tribal Eldrazi - Enchantment" flavor -- e.g. "Transplanar Reach" if our friends are showing up again soon, or

    • phyrexian mana, if our friends are showing up again soon, or

    • etc.


  • unique and never done before (probably means it would have to be rare or mythic)


. . .
 

Multicolor is also a possibility, with its snazzy gold background. For example, Genju of the Realm and Maelstrom Nexus. But those are 5-color, so don't see much play. Maybe something like:

mana cost: (W/U)(U/B)(B/R)(R/G)(G/W)
(Hybrid mana symbols can be paid with either color.)

However due to the rules clunkiness and complicatedness, I would recommend Colorless over Multicolor.

. . .

EDIT:

REACTIVE/CHANGING COLOR

examples:


Polyreactive Aether
mana cost: (3)
As a player casts a creature, artifact, or enchantment card, thiscard becomes a copy of it.
(3), sacrifice thischard: copy target instant or sorcery.

OR

(W): Thiscard becomes a copy of target enchantment.
(U), sacrifice thiscard: copy target instant or sorcery.
(B): Thiscard becomes a copy of target card in a graveyard.
(R): Thiscard becomes a copy of target artifact.
(G): Thiscard becomes a copy of target creature.

LEYLINE (e.g. one that makes multiplayer more interesting AND make the we-wanted-land people happy!!! -- by being a mana source if it doesn't work, much like Serum Powder)

Pact of Chance
mana cost: (0)
Enchantment
If there are no teams, you may reveal this card from your opening hand. If you do, each player chooses pact or solitude. If three or more players choose pact, those players randomly join two teams. The team with the fewest players draws two cards and takes a second turn after their first turns.

You may have thiscard enter the battlefield tapped as a copy of any land you control.

I wish multicolor was an option. I love enemy-color cards. So with one color, my vote is up in the air. I'm a Spike with Johnny tendencies, but I have a weakness for interesting enchantments. I don't like white, feel it's too boring. I like green, but it doesn't feel right. Blue is a good option, but I feel that blue's been getting a little too much of the "wacky" love lately- Omniscience comes to mind, from the most recent core set. That leaves the option between black and red. Black is compelling because it's supposed to be able to do anything- for a small price. But, in my Magic youth, red was the color that got the truly game-bending enchantments. Chaos in the Ranks, Risky Move... when was the last "big" red spell- enchantment, instant, sorcery, anything- that changed the rules of the game? The Warp World reprint? I'd like to see something that harkens back to those early times. (and if it involves coin-flipping, I would be super happy!)
I want red, but not for those stupid, big randumb cards that people only ever use to screw up casual multiplayer games while pretending that's "fun". Red can do more than that. Remember Blood Moon, anyone? Yeah. I want more red control. Not blue control in red. I want a red enchantment that either has the ability to reward control-type strategies or punishes the opponent's strategy. Just something decently playable and interesting.
Honestly? I'm voting Red because it's my favorite. Without a mechanic in mind, I don't have much to go on.
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oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
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Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
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no multi colour?

well im stuck between black and red and maybe blue,
i like red for randomness
and i like black for cheating death
blue is third with big spell effects
Colorless.

I know it isn't really a choice but we haven't seen colorless as an enchantment yet and I do think it offers possibilities. I have said a colorless enchantment in the past topic and I remain with that choice. Funky? Yes but it can work. 
It can't be colorless because, while Artifacts can now be colored, that's an anomaly... one of the things that keeps artifacts and enchantments (and auras and equipment) separate-feeling is the colorless/colored dichotomy. If we wanted a colorless enchantment, we really should have just chosen Artifact. Yes, it CAN be done, there CAN be flavor and game reasons to do it, but since we're starting where we are, we don't have a reason that would make it necessary.

Just squashing the creative juice out of everybody.

I would also like multicolored... Or at least like it as an option. All the many various options....

If we're being crazy, I even want to suggest a 4-color card.

All of the colors BUT one... so the card is defined more by what it's not than what it is.

If it were NOT black, for example, it could about punishing selfishness. I'd like that as a multi-player-friendly global enchantment.

There's a for-example out there for any 4-color combination. Also, perhaps a better one for black. But I like thinking about the notable absence of a color as a jumping off place.

Hm?
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Colourless would be top of my list, followed by Red. Let's see more of the cunning, emotional side of the colour.
That's a tough one..
I'd love a black enchantment, because we can have it interfere with the graveyard and we can have alternative costs. I wanna sacrifice my creatures to get some awesome reward. Like returning stuff from my yard. We could even add a manacost and let the effect change depending on what kind of mana you use, making it virtually multicolored.

Green on the other hand could give us a new survival of the fittest / birthing pod card. Making a toolbox strategy viable in standard again. I know we just had that with birthing pod, but this card will not see print in another couple years, and by that time the world is different and needs this.

Red on the other hand gave us manabarbs and form of the dragon, while I have never used form of the dragon, I love the flavor and the idea behind it and it would be awesome if we could give red another wacky enchantment and show it's not all about burn and rdw rush strategies..

I'm glad we don't vote this week because I still haven't figured out what to vote for.
I dreamed about a Counterspell/Oblivion Ring hybrid, so I'll vote blue. Just imagine returning exiled spell back on stack. Bonkers.
I've always had a soft spot for the game breaking enchants in blue and red.

Blue has gotten Omniscience, Battle of Wits and Chronic Flooding, all of which have seen serious play in the current Standard, and all three of which are extremely casual friendly.

That said, I feel red is in need of a potentially competitive enchant that does NOT promote the RDW style deck, but is more geared towards the Izzet side of red.
I dreamed about a Counterspell/Oblivion Ring hybrid, so I'll vote blue. Just imagine returning exiled spell back on stack. Bonkers.


Im affraid thats not going to happen, since they dont want to name 'stack' on cards. 
For any you make the card it should be a kind of 'build-around-me' card.

I'm pretty sure black has the most potential in that category. There aren't many iconic black enchantments, and I say it's high time we get one.
Sooo...multicolor is not an option? I got an idea for a blue/black enchantment which really should be blue/black, not just blue or just black...
Black. And it should hose turn-sideways decks.

Toxic Vapor -
Enchantment
Creatures get -1/-1.


I have just one question:

Why is the color pie rotating counterclockwise?

Really I don't understand. Completely caught me by surprise.
Black. And it should hose turn-sideways decks.

Toxic Vapor -
Enchantment
Creatures get -1/-1.





Night of Souls' Betrayal.

I dreamed about a Counterspell/Oblivion Ring hybrid, so I'll vote blue. Just imagine returning exiled spell back on stack. Bonkers.

 
Im affraid thats not going to happen, since they dont want to name 'stack' on cards. 



Sundial of the Infinite is the most recent one. On wacky rares I'm sure they don't mind that much as long as it happens only once in a while.
Black. And it should hose turn-sideways decks.

Toxic Vapor -
Enchantment
Creatures get -1/-1.





Night of Souls' Betrayal.




Oops!

That said, creature strategies were much slower back then. Still, take the tacit point that it is rather a big jump in power. Maybe it just needs a drawback clause.  

Toxic Vapor -
Enchantment
All creatures get -1/-1.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are no creatures  on the battlefield, sacrifice Toxic Vapor.
I think later on when we have more detailed and complex decisions to make, it would make sense for us to wait a full week, but I don't think color is a full week decision.

I would vote for Red or Blue. While all colors have interesting enchantments, the most "out there" seem to be those colors: e.g., Confusion in the Ranks or Hive Mind

Personally, I'm voting red, but I could see blue as well. Of course, maybe "out there" isn't what everyone wants, but those people are no fun!



Yes! I'm torn between green for a Survival of the Fittest/Birthing Pod variant and blue/red for a wacky thing =)

I could get behind red. Things like Madcap Skills and Five-Alarm Fire are fun. We could hopefully make something a tiny bit stronger.



We don't determine power level, that's all in Development's hands. We should just focus on making something fun and not worry about anything else.

I would prefer if we don't start off with choosing a color. Why? That will restrict ideas/innovation. Why can't we start with a mechanic suggestions and once the mechanics are finalized, then the most appropriate color is chosen. I know that would mean that you will have all sort of suggestions, but at least there won't be retrictions on our imagination.



Restrictions Breed Creativity.

I want red, but not for those stupid, big randumb cards that people only ever use to screw up casual multiplayer games while pretending that's "fun".

 

You don't like thing X, that's fine. 
But insulting people who like thing X? Why so much hostility? Dumb comments like that devalue everything you say afterwards. 
I don't care what it ends up being - just keep in mind that academy rector and show and tell exist - so let's not make another omniscience to mess with EDH.

I'd like to see something small and efficient to throw into enchantress in legacy.
I have just one question:

Why is the color pie rotating counterclockwise?

Really I don't understand. Completely caught me by surprise.



Also did you notice that red is the only color where the words are written outward instead of inward except for the one where red is on top? They probably tried both options, then decided for one and forgot to change red to match the other colors. But hey; to all those who want to read something into it:
 conspiracy theories go! 

Why no multicolor?  Things can be done with GW outside of Selesnya.  If I have to pick one color for the enchantment, I would like blue.  Blue makes some crazy enchantments.
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