The Gatherling.com & The MTGO Bazaar Present: Commander Season 2 Championships!!

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Commander League Season 2 Championship on Gatherling.com sponsored by The MTGO Bazaar!

The Top 8 players from Season 1 are invited! The invite list is:

Dyspeth - 202
Shikogpro - 196
the_arend - 180
raf.azevedo - 173
3drinks - 156
Yokai_ - 117
Cleomar - 68
Huger - 61



WHEN:
This event starts Saturday, March 30th 2013 and will go through Sunday, April 7th, 2013! One week! 

REGISTRATION:
The above players will be manually registered. If you are going to play go to Gatherling.com and enter your deck list. If you do not enter a deck list, I will take it as a sign that you do not want to participate and remove you from the event. As always, make sure you enter a list before you play any matches. If you do not wish to play in this event, either PM me here, or message me (3drinks) on the Magic Online client to let me know so I make the proper arrangements.

COMMUNICATING:
All matches are reported on the Player CP under active matches. When you click to add a match, it will open a match reporting page with a drop down menu of all the players who are also in the league. That way you know who to look for on MTGO to play. It is also a good idea to report your standings here in this thread as well, that way you have a record of that here, just in the off chance something goes haywire on the main Gatherling site and messes up the points. If you don't update here, and something does happen, I don't have a backup to use to verify all the points remain accurate.


DECK CONSTRUCTION:
Matches will be best 2 out of 3, using the Commander Duel play structure with a 60 minute timer. Please select to allow watchers. In addition to the standard Commander banlist produced and maintained by the Rules Committee, this league is also instituting a ban on the following cards: Dream Halls, Hermit Druid, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Mana Crypt, Mana Drain, Mana Vault, Mindslaver, Necropotence, Serra Ascendant, Sol Ring, and Survival of the Fittest. This environment is about fostering the fun of everybody involved, and these cards named above are notorious for creating “unfair” or “lop-sided” game states. If a player is found with any banned cards in their deck, they will be issued a match loss versus their current opponent and will be allowed to switch out the offending card(s) with a basic land of their choice.


Furthermore, a deck shall not exceed a maximum of seven (7) cards that contain the text of "counter target spell". This league's goal is to encourage more players to be interested in playing each of their opponents, and the abundance of cheap countermagic is completely contrary to that stated goal.


Edric, Spymaster of Trest is banned as a commander. A player found using Edric as their commander will be issued a match loss. They will be allowed to switch out their commander once for another legal option (but the rest of their main deck must remain unchanged). Edric, as a card, will still be legal for use as a part of the ninety-nine.


Zur, the Enchanter is banned as a commander. A player found using Zur as their commander will be issued a match loss. They will be allowed to switch out their commander once for another legal option (but the rest of their main deck must remain unchanged). Zur, as a card, will still be legal for use as a part of the ninety-nine. While Zur has not yet won an event in particular, this is a proactive ban, rather than a reactive one. At four mana, in these colours, it is easy enough to play as soon as turn two, with counter-magic back-up, allowing it to swing once as early as turn three. The first swing is all that matters here and once it happens, it is nigh-impossible to stop the inevitable from happening. Matches should not be determined in such a "coin-flip" manner like this, at least not this early in the game, as this would be enough to catch any player before reasonable responses would be able to "come online" to deal with this.


Grand Arbiter Augustine IV is banned as a commander. A player found using Grand Arbiter as their commander will be issued a match loss. They will be allowed to switch out their commander once for another legal option (but the rest of their main deck must remain unchanged). Grand Arbiter, as a card, will still be legal for use as a part of the ninety-nine. This is banned on power-level reasons. For the effect of such a card at four mana it is too strong, and too hard to be able to reasonably fight back from. For example, Red, the colour of land destruction gets a card at four mana for a 2/2 with haste (and Echo, mind you) and an "ETB" Stone Rain effect, and this is very much considered a "pushed" card in power level. Why then, should the Azorius colour combination be able to get that same four mana "Stone Rain" effect on a bigger body (a 2/3), while also offering a cost-reduction ability for itself, with no downside whatsoever? The Azorius colour combination doesn't even get land destruction under modern design philosophies, at least not any at the kind of ludicrously low cost that Grand Arbiter offers. So, in effect, GAAIV is too powerful for this metagame, and will only encourage a warped environment that fosters the same blue/white decks versus themselves, or versus specific anti-blue/anti-white decks.

Talrand, Sky Summoner is banned as a commander. A player found using Takrand as their commander will be issued a match loss. They will be allowed to switch out their commander once for another legal option (but the rest of their main deck must remain unchanged). Talrand, as a card, will still be legal for use as a part of the ninety-nine. This is banned on power-level reasons. Talrand encourages a very interesting take on deck building, such that in any other deck playing "cantrip" spells like Brainstorm or Ponder are used for utilitarian purposes, "digging" through one's deck to help find answer cards or even that next land drop. In Talrand they perform all this, and much more, such as creating a free, evasive army, for next to no mana committed, all while keeping cards in the pilot's hand in effect always having an indispensible army while impeding an opponent's game plan with countermagic and removal. I had hoped with the hard limit of seven cards with the text of "counter target spell" in place, that Talrand would be more manageable to fight against. But this has proven not to be. In fact, the only reason why this commander hasn't actually won an event yet, is solely because the pilot is unable to find all of his matches (or players just flat out don't want to play against a deck as oppressive as this). For the betterment of this league, things will be better off without such an abusable, oppressive commander around, lurking in the mist. 


It is not powerful decks that are the center-point of my decisions here, as powerful decks will always exist. It is a stagnant metagame that is to be combatted as we do not desire an environment where only one deck remains as the clear choice to be head and shoulders above every other deck.



Temporarily banned is the card Mystifying Maze, as shown in Commander 2.05, it has a bug associated with the commander. When it is utilized targeting a commander, the commander returns to the battlefield untapped, when according do the card, the commander should clearly be returned tapped. I have sent a bug report to WotC CustServ on this issue, and as soon as I receive word that it is fixed, the card will once again be legal for use as normal.



  • Just popping in for an edit here, I just tried this again late Sunday night, and it appears the bug is still in existance. So still no Mystifying Maze for now. :/

  • I e-mailed WotC CustServ again and got a reply in the middle of week ending 3/09/2013. I was told "Unfortunately, I do not have any additional information about the progress of this bug, and cannot guarantee further follow up. If there is anything else we can help you with, please don't hesitate to let us know." So, I don't know what to make of that, but it obviously isn't good. :/

  • Tested the card again today, 3/25/2013. Still the same result. This has now been ongoing for roughly three months now. Sheesh, good grief WotC.


If anybody else experiences any bug in the way cards work that is different than the expected functionality, please, let me know, and report it to CustServ and we will take care of things appropriately. If there is a problem in the middle of a match and I am not available, keep a log of the bug in question and I will look into it and take appropriate action as to the result of the match.
 


PRIZES:
As this is a Season Championship Event, the prize structure will be slightly different this week. Only the Top 2 players will take a prize:

1st 20 bot credits
2nd 10 bot credits

EVENT STRUCTURE:

There will be one round of League play in which each participant is allowed to play each other player once.  The time frame is one week.  This will hopefully introduce a much more casual gaming environment, one where players can easily find another match without waiting for the host to process results.  

After one week, the top 4 scores as computed in Gatherling will be awarded medals with the top player winning a Trophy which will permanently be displayed on your player profile. The tournament will end regardless of whether people have completed all of their matchups.    This is due to time constraints and to reward those who play often.  Note that a person who has won half of 20 matches will have more points than one who has won 100% of nine matches. Gatherling awards 3 points for a win and -1 points for a loss. 

RULES:
•    The registered players will be listed here in this thread once the event starts since you cannot see the other players decks or registrations until the tournament ends. The order of matches will be up to each individual and availability of opponents.  Feel free to use this forum or MTGO PM system to set up a date/time with any given opponent. 

•    Remember that each Gatherling Commander Event will last exactly one week. Get those matches in! This tournament operates by highest total points, NOT necessarily the highest win percentage!  You will receive 3 points for a win and -1 points for each loss.[/color]

•    Tables must be made using the Commander Challenge filter, a sixty-minute timer, "best 2 out of 3", Watchable, and labeled "Gatherling Cmdr [Season & Event Number]". And remember, the more we publicize these matches, the more participation we will get! So feel free to invite anyone who likes playing Commander!

•    The deck used for your first match must be used for the entire tournament. Modifications can and/or will result in disqualification from the current event.

•    After each match, results must be reported in this thread in the event forum like "3drinks vs Dabil W2-1" or "Dabil vs 3drinks L0-2" (make sure you list your MTGO ID and your opponent!).  If you choose to let your opponent post for the two of you, it is your responsibility to check posts for accuracy.  Mistakes caught after the end of the tournament will be ignored.  Also, anyone dropping from the tournament must report "drop" in the results thread as well.  I know it usually won't matter because of the point system, but it's good to stay in the habit for the sake of other tournaments. And it lets other players know you are not available for matches anymore. (especially late players who may have a hard time getting in their matches). 

•    Bad sportsmanship or other rules violations may result in match loss, disqualification, suspension, or banning. Offense and punishment will be decided at the host's discretion. 

COMMANDER RULES:


To find out how to play Commander or "Elder Dragon highlander" (EDH) please go here: Official Commander Rules

PREVIOUS WINNERS:



Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

3drinks Standings for Commander Season 2 Championships

W vs Yokai_ 2-0



L vs Huger 0-2
L vs Shikogpro 1-2
L vs raf.azevedo 1-2



Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

In my opinion MAELSTROM WANDERER, is much more powerfull than Talrand in a metagame where counterspells and the "Counter Theme Commanders" are banned. He is the last Powerfull commander avaible, so. 
I'd like to enter this event, but I would probably enter my decklist just before the event since it's often subject to change even at the very last minute.

With regard to Talrand's banning, I do not think it's justified. Talrand has been made much weaker by the counterspell limit since the limit impairs the deck's ability to protect its commander and disrupt the opponent. Even when all the counterspells were at his disposal, I had never thought he was broken. Talrand is both the deck's biggest asset and weakness. Just deal with it and you're set.

Huger's Talrand deck went 9-3 during the last tournament, on par with The_Arend's  Maelstrom Wanderer and Shikogpro's Merieke Ri Berit, so it doesn't seem like he had difficulty finding matches or that his opponents avoided him. The participants in this tournament seem like a reasonable bunch.

I can think of at least 3 commanders who are more powerful than Talrand in this environment (listed in alphabetical order):

Animar, Soul of Elements
Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Maelstrom Wanderer

I'm not saying that these commanders should be banned as well. Rather, my point is that Talrand is a good commander but not a broken one. I think he should stay in this tournament.
I will be entering the event, but like Dyspeth I probably won't register a deck till the last minute.  Given that Tal is banned I'm working hard to come up with a brand new deck.  I would agree that Talrand seems like a fine power level to me (yes I'm very biased) and I didn't have any trouble finding any matches.  That said I am alright with the banning since it's an awesome format that is giving away free tixs and is being run by volunteers. 
I am in for the champs. Will only register a deck at the last minute. Keeping you in suspense 3drinks Wink
I'd like to enter this event, but I would probably enter my decklist just before the event since it's often subject to change even at the very last minute.

With regard to Talrand's banning, I do not think it's justified. Talrand has been made much weaker by the counterspell limit since the limit impairs the deck's ability to protect its commander and disrupt the opponent. Even when all the counterspells were at his disposal, I had never thought he was broken. Talrand is both the deck's biggest asset and weakness. Just deal with it and you're set.

Huger's Talrand deck went 9-3 during the last tournament, on par with The_Arend's  Maelstrom Wanderer and Shikogpro's Merieke Ri Berit, so it doesn't seem like he had difficulty finding matches or that his opponents avoided him. The participants in this tournament seem like a reasonable bunch.

I can think of at least 3 commanders who are more powerful than Talrand in this environment (listed in alphabetical order):

Animar, Soul of Elements
Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Maelstrom Wanderer

I'm not saying that these commanders should be banned as well. Rather, my point is that Talrand is a good commander but not a broken one. I think he should stay in this tournament.



If you clean the board of Animar or Ezuri, they don't come back like Talrad's odes. I'm an ezuri player and ezuri didn't do the gamewin like talrad on the board. Ezuri works most of time as a finisher and sometimes you didn't even need him to win the games, he just make it quickly. 


Okay, so Huger didn't have a problem finding opponents. Earlier in the week he expressed that to me that he had some difficulty finding players so I had figured that this continued through out the week. Apparently, I was wrong. Oh well. The points against Talrand, Sky Summoner still fly, however. Being able to generate massive (and evasive!) board presence while keeping a full hand is insane! No other commander can do that. In addition to this, it is a mono-colour deck so there is no potential for colour drought to happen, and because of the nature of the deck, it does not even need a large quantity of mana to operate at full force. Add to this that it is BLUE, the most over-powered colour in the history of the entire game (you could disagree here, but we all know you'd be dead wrong if you tried) and it becomes quite visible how readily apparent this deck -- in the hands of a skilled pilot -- really is. It becomes even more oppressive if the counter-cap wasn't in place, but even with it, it is just too much consistency in what should be a ninety-nine card deck.

As for the Maelstrom Wanderer, he is definitely a powerhouse card. He is definitely a card I have a vehement dislike of. But to remove him as commander? So what, we only have Animar, Soul of Elements and Riku of Two Reflections to pick from representing the RUG colour combination? (I realize there is also a dragon but c'mon, Intet, the Dreamer is pretty bad...). This is a wedge combination that is popular to many people, for many different reasons, but it doesn't have enough commanders to really choose from, therefore forcing players to pick from such a small list which crushes a players need to diversify and personalize their own deck (let's face it, everyone likes to have their own special take on their brew). Add to this, that a Maelstrom deck cannot even play countermagic lest it make for a non-impactful cascade, and it's cmc is outrageously high, which weakens it drastically to mana denial (I did this very tactic to a degree when I played against it last week).

Of course it is strong against control -- a control deck can't counter all three spells in that one turn -- hence a lot of people favour the deck when expecting control decks to be present. But when you consider that land destruction decks are somewhat common in the metagame, and land destruction decks are pretty decent versus Maelstrom, I'd say it has some decent checks and balances in place for it.

Attempting to compare Ezuri, Renegade Leader to Talrand, Sky Summoner is just asinine. That's like saying Giant Growth is on the same power level as Ancestral Recall. I...I just don't even know where to start with that. For starters, Ezuri doesn't have BLUE in it, which should make it ineligible to even be included in this discussion! Furthermore like raf.azevedo mentioned above this post, Ezuri is a finisher, and even has some combo applications (involving Devoted Druid or Viridian Joiner, for example) but I could replace him with an Eladamri, Lord of Leaves and be just as well off.

Comparing Talrand to Animar, Soul of Elements? They aren't even the same deck. Animar still needs a lot of setup to "go off" like your Imperial Animar did last week. Talrand just plays the commander, holds up a Force of Will, Gush, Thwart, or even just the humble Gitaxian Probe and the deck is in business. This is not true of Animar, or Maelstrom, or Ezuri as you mentioned.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Okay, so Huger didn't have a problem finding opponents. Earlier in the week he expressed that to me that he had some difficulty finding players so I had figured that this continued through out the week. Apparently, I was wrong. Oh well. The points against Talrand, Sky Summoner still fly, however. Being able to generate massive (and evasive!) board presence while keeping a full hand is insane! No other commander can do that. In addition to this, it is a mono-colour deck so there is no potential for colour drought to happen, and because of the nature of the deck, it does not even need a large quantity of mana to operate at full force. Add to this that it is BLUE, the most over-powered colour in the history of the entire game (you could disagree here, but we all know you'd be dead wrong if you tried) and it becomes quite visible how readily apparent this deck -- in the hands of a skilled pilot -- really is. It becomes even more oppressive if the counter-cap wasn't in place, but even with it, it is just too much consistency in what should be a ninety-nine card deck.

As for the Maelstrom Wanderer, he is definitely a powerhouse card. He is definitely a card I have a vehement dislike of. But to remove him as commander? So what, we only have Animar, Soul of Elements and Riku of Two Reflections to pick from representing the RUG colour combination? (I realize there is also a dragon but c'mon, Intet, the Dreamer is pretty bad...). This is a wedge combination that is popular to many people, for many different reasons, but it doesn't have enough commanders to really choose from, therefore forcing players to pick from such a small list which crushes a players need to diversify and personalize their own deck (let's face it, everyone likes to have their own special take on their brew). Add to this, that a Maelstrom deck cannot even play countermagic lest it make for a non-impactful cascade, and it's cmc is outrageously high, which weakens it drastically to mana denial (I did this very tactic to a degree when I played against it last week).

Of course it is strong against control -- a control deck can't counter all three spells in that one turn -- hence a lot of people favour the deck when expecting control decks to be present. But when you consider that land destruction decks are somewhat common in the metagame, and land destruction decks are pretty decent versus Maelstrom, I'd say it has some decent checks and balances in place for it.

Attempting to compare Ezuri, Renegade Leader to Talrand, Sky Summoner is just asinine. That's like saying Giant Growth is on the same power level as Ancestral Recall. I...I just don't even know where to start with that. For starters, Ezuri doesn't have BLUE in it, which should make it ineligible to even be included in this discussion! Furthermore like raf.azevedo mentioned above this post, Ezuri is a finisher, and even has some combo applications (involving Devoted Druid or Viridian Joiner, for example) but I could replace him with an Eladamri, Lord of Leaves and be just as well off.

Comparing Talrand to Animar, Soul of Elements? They aren't even the same deck. Animar still needs a lot of setup to "go off" like your Imperial Animar did last week. Talrand just plays the commander, holds up a Force of Will, Gush, Thwart, or even just the humble Gitaxian Probe and the deck is in business. This is not true of Animar, or Maelstrom, or Ezuri as you mentioned.

Talrand has the sweet ability of being able to create an evasive army by casting spells, but lots of commanders have amazing abilities as well. That's why we choose to build decks around them. In addition to a commander's abilities, supporting cards play an extremely huge role in determining the power level of a deck. Talrand decks extract value from the commander by playing tons of otherwise mediocre cards like Visions of Beyond. The deck is so reliant on the commander that it basically can't win if you prevent Talrand from setting up shop.

On the other hand, the other decks I have listed are faster and/or more resilient. The comparisons are not "asinine", as you have rudely commented. Both Animar and Ezuri have combos which can kill or severely cripple their opponents in the early turns. For example, in my game against raf.azevedo two tournaments back, his Ezuri played a turn 5 Terastodon against my Maelstrom Wanderer despite my creature bounce and LD. Had he not done so, I would have been able to cast my commander the next turn to cascade into the Wildfire which had been sitting near the top of my deck, thereby turning the whole game around. Talrand does not have access to such explosive plays. With the current banlist, it is even ill-equipped to handle them. The other decks have solid lines of play outside of their commanders. Talrand practically does not. Even winning via Jace TMS ultimate would be difficult. Therefore, some concession can be made for Talrand's strong ability.

While experience tells me that this debate with you would be another exercise in futility, I feel compelled to speak out against your actions resulting from your disproportionate fear of blue. You seem to be trying your utmost to weaken the color with the commander bannings and the limit on counterspells. Those decisions are not even supported by our tournament results.
So raf.azevedo played a t5 Terastodon via mana acceleration in an elf deck. Does this mean anything that plays an early T-Don should be banned? Better claim foul versus Natural Order then as well. Does this mean T-Don should be banned? Of course not. You're using single-target LD versus a deck that does not require many lands to perform it's game plan, so of course you came up on the short end of the stick there. What you needed more than a Stone Rain was a Slagstorm effect. These plays still require large amounts of mana to set up a "game swinging" board state -- Talrand on the other hand gets to set up this kind of power while drawing cards and simultaneously deploying an army, while denying opponents the chance to mount any kind of offense. That's ridiculous and truly makes one wonder why they're playing anything else (if they can play the deck reasonably well) when they can just sit back and **** while drawing cards. Commander is not designed to be all about one particular colour, or one particular deck -- otherwise where's the point of the format?

I don't have a "disproportinate fear" of blue, I have a desire to balance things. It's not fair to eighty percent of the colours that they just don't have toys on the level of the hand jobs that R&D gives blue. In order to make things more balanced, I need to step in and straighten things up. Of course you would accuse me of trying to "unfairly nerf" the colour; you have played solely U/x decks in every event. And of course it seems as though I am biased against the colour, because blue players have played the game for decades with the broken in half cards like Treachery, Bribery, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, that let the colour blatantly cheat in any game it's a part of. When the only way to beat a colour is to play hard hosers and mana denial, and this doesn't always work because they just counter those, something clearly needs to be done...something clearly is just not right.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Quoting my earlier post:
I'm not saying that these commanders should be banned as well. Rather, my point is that Talrand is a good commander but not a broken one. I think he should stay in this tournament.



Quoting your most recent post:
So raf.azevedo played a t5 Terastodon via mana acceleration in an elf deck. Does this mean anything that plays an early T-Don should be banned? Better claim foul versus Natural Order then as well.



Quite clearly, willfully or otherwise, you don't comprehend what I say. I am totally fine with those commanders staying in this tournament, just as I am fine with Talrand staying. All I am trying to do is demonstrate how those commanders are better than Talrand. I'm really puzzled as to why you don't get the point. It's okay to disagree and refute, but you don't even get it.

Also, my point in bringing up the example of a T5 Terastodon was that it's possible for elves to make such powerful plays early even through disruption. Had I not disrupted him, the Terastodon would likely have come down a turn earlier. Terastodon on T3 off Natural Order is not out of the question for elves either. On the other hand, had my Maelstrom Wanderer been one turn faster or Elves been one turn slower, I would have cacaded into Wildfire and the outcome of the game would have been totally opposite. These are what the best decks in this tournament are capable of. Talrand does not come close.

Go back and look at the results of the past two tournaments when Huger played Talrand. Sure, his Talrand won more games than it lost but so did all the other top performing decks. When you then look at his specific match losses, you would very clearly see that he lost more matches against the top 4 decks than he won. Since I can no longer trust you to be capable of analyzing results yourself, I shall do you a favor and list them here:

Huger's Talrand Past Tournament Match Wins/Losses Against Top 4 Decks
(Not trying to pick on you, Huger. Solely for illustration purposes.)

Commander 2.09:


  • Wins


    •  None





  • Losses


    • Shikogpro 0-2 (1st place with Skullbriar)

    • raf.azevedo 1-2 (2nd place with Ezuri, Renagade Leader)

    • Dyspeth 0-2 (3rd place with Maelstrom Wanderer)



Commander 2.10:


  •  Wins


    • Shikogpro 2-1 (2nd place with Merieke Ri Berit)





  • Losses


    • Dyspeth 0-2 (1st place with Animar, Soul of Elements)

    • the_arend 1-2 (4th place with Maelstrom Wanderer)



Huger's deck is not some casual plaything either. He plays some of the best cards available to the deck. If I were to play Talrand, his list is pretty close to what I would run myself.



I am beginning to get the impression that you're one of those players who doesn't believe in a banlist at all, and would be much happier to see all cards to be legal for use, with oppressive decks like the Clique winning everything and ruining entire events. That or you just like to actively disagree with everything I say or post. It's one or the other, and honestly, I don't really see how I can keep having these discussions where you religiously scrutinize me and my decisions where I am looking out for not just your love affair with the colour Blue, but for the health and general well-being for the other colours and the players that don't have the stacked account with all the money cards, and blatant Blue loving that you have.

EDIT: Look, I am a volunteer, I take the time and energy to keep these events together out of my own twenty-four hours. I am not paid for this, my only payment is the satisfaction of seeing other players able to take part in Commander stuff as WotC doesn't have any sanctioned events in the client. It's obvious you and I have different views of the format, you prefer to sitback and **** to Blue while countering people's spells, effortlessly crushing people with your superior collection, deriving enjoyment from the tears of others as they watch those super-cool-awesome cards they just bought get owned by a Counterspell, Force of Will, and Cryptic Command. And I prefer to actually make all the colours a viable choice for any player to choose and have a reasonable chance of success in the format, and be able to enjoy their cards that they spend their hard-earned money on. It's unfortunate that Blue is taking the heaviest nerf, but c'mon, you're a veteran player, you know damn well that Blue is so far ahead of the other colours in power level that it isn't even close. So naturally in my attempts at making this enjoyable for anyone, the hardcore draw-go decks will take the hardest hit.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

I am beginning to get the impression that you're one of those players who doesn't believe in a banlist at all, and would be much happier to see all cards to be legal for use, with oppressive decks like the Clique winning everything and ruining entire events. That or you just like to actively disagree with everything I say or post. It's one or the other, and honestly, I don't really see how I can keep having these discussions where you religiously scrutinize me and my decisions where I am looking out for not just your love affair with the colour Blue, but for the health and general well-being for the other colours and the players that don't have the stacked account with all the money cards, and blatant Blue loving that you have.

EDIT: Look, I am a volunteer, I take the time and energy to keep these events together out of my own twenty-four hours. I am not paid for this, my only payment is the satisfaction of seeing other players able to take part in Commander stuff as WotC doesn't have any sanctioned events in the client. It's obvious you and I have different views of the format, you prefer to sitback and **** to Blue while countering people's spells, effortlessly crushing people with your superior collection, deriving enjoyment from the tears of others as they watch those super-cool-awesome cards they just bought get owned by a Counterspell, Force of Will, and Cryptic Command. And I prefer to actually make all the colours a viable choice for any player to choose and have a reasonable chance of success in the format, and be able to enjoy their cards that they spend their hard-earned money on. It's unfortunate that Blue is taking the heaviest nerf, but c'mon, you're a veteran player, you know damn well that Blue is so far ahead of the other colours in power level that it isn't even close. So naturally in my attempts at making this enjoyable for anyone, the hardcore draw-go decks will take the hardest hit.

I disagree with most of your opinions. That much is true. However, I do so not because I enjoy getting people hot under the collar, but because you frequently operate on very flawed lines of reasoning. My studies take up a ton of my time. When I do get some free time, I'd like to spend it with friends and family or play a few games of Magic. Bickering with a stranger who is fascinated by the act of wanking is not on my list of priorities.

We are not having discussions here because you are not open to discussions. As far as I know, you make these banning decisions unilaterally. I don't see you honestly polling other players to get their opinions on matters. Your poll on counterspells was a choice between a rock and a hard place. You had already made up your mind on severely weakening decks which rely on counterspells. If you run this league in the service of its participants, why don't I see you listening more to what they have to say? You portray yourself as a noble volunteer, but your participation in this league actually presents a conflict of interest. Your appointment as host gives you control over the banlist and allows you to view the decklists of participants. By being eligible for prizes, you stand to gain by manipulating the banlist and choosing the most appropriate decks for each event. I don't have solid proof of either and the ability to view decklists might be necessary to host this tournament. However, this doesn't mean I can't hold you to the highest levels of accountability.

I am far from being a player who denies the importance of banlists. I believe the current banlist on MTGO is hugely inadequate for 1v1 Commander. For example, Sol Ring is a card that has rightly been banned in this tournament and I would be the first to argue against its unbanning. If I were the tournament host, I would also propose bans on cards like Mind Twist and Crucible of Worlds, subject to voting by tournament participants. A banlist should serve to rein in cards which distort the metagame. Until you provide actual evidence of Talrand warping the metagame (as opposed to your baseless rantings), I will stand by my position on the card.

It is funny how you set up a strawman by painting me as a crusader for blue and everything broken. That must surely be to detract from my reasons for opposing Talrand's banning. I had opposed Talrand's banning when you first tried to implement it months ago. Since then, I have played Talrand in this tournament for a grand total of zero times. Furthermore, if I were selfish and wanted to maximize my chances of winning this championship tournament, why would I defend the deck played by a competitor? Would I not instead propose the banning and force my competitor to play something weaker?

Logic: It apparently doesn't come easy to some.
Why ban Mind Twist when people can just play Mind Shatter instead. Or what, would you rather ban all random discard? What's next the t1 Dark Ritual-->Hypnotic Specter "power play"? Rakdos's Return?

Why ban Crucible of Worlds when I can play Life from the Loam? Loam is actually stronger because while it does the same purposes of Crucible, it also fuels graveyard-based strategies.

Bringing those two cards up shows me that you aren't properly thinking things through, instead attempting to steer the direction towards cards that people have brought up before despite my reasonings for why the cards remain legal. So then you just try to undermine my ability to identify the problem cards because, heaven forbid, I want a metagame where all the colours are viable and not one where "all colours are viable so long as you play U/x".

As for the rest of your "post" attacking my character, all I can say is tl;dr.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Why ban Mind Twist when people can just play Mind Shatter instead. Or what, would you rather ban all random discard? What's next the t1 Dark Ritual-->Hypnotic Specter "power play"? Rakdos's Return?

Why ban Crucible of Worlds when I can play Life from the Loam? Loam is actually stronger because while it does the same purposes of Crucible, it also fuels graveyard-based strategies.

Bringing those two cards up shows me that you aren't properly thinking things through, instead attempting to steer the direction towards cards that people have brought up before despite my reasonings for why the cards remain legal. So then you just try to undermine my ability to identify the problem cards because, heaven forbid, I want a metagame where all the colours are viable and not one where "all colours are viable so long as you play U/x".

As for the rest of your "post" attacking my character, all I can say is tl;dr.

Of course I have thought about those alternative cards. Mind Shatter costs one black mana more than Mind Twist. This means the caster has to cast the spell one turn later than if he were to play Mind Twist. This one turn makes a lot of difference, since the opponent would have had time to play additional spells; possibly cards essential to his strategy.

Even if the caster does not seek to hit his opponent for their full hand, card economy is not insignificant. Card economy is why Concentrate is a good card while Divination is not. Concentrate costs an additional blue mana for one extra card, but that means the caster gets to draw three cards at the cost of one card from his hand, as opposed to two. Likewise, you get to hit for more with the one Mind Twist in your hand than a Mind Shatter.

If you think an additional one mana to cast a spell is negligible, try imagining cards like a 2G Harmonize, a 3W Gideon Jura or a 2B Damnation. Mind Spring for XU? How good would these cards be? Also, the extra mana being black makes Mind Shatter less splashable. In a multicolored deck with a good manabase, that ought not to be much of an issue, but Magic being Magic, is subject to variance and that extra black mana can be a problem sometimes.

Rakdos's Return is similar to Mind Shatter. It grants extra damage at the cost of being less splashable not being random discard. Dark Ritual into Hypnotic Specter is hardly a power play. That sort of play costs the caster 2 cards right off the bat and only starts the slow grind of one discard a turn, one turn later. Opponents have much more time to respond to it. Hypnotic Specter, being a creature, is answerable by creature removal or simply a flying blocker.

It is not as if Mind Shatter is a bad card. If so, an improvement to the card might not result in something broken. Mind Shatter is a decent card and by costing one black mana less, Mind Twist is a superior card. Another point in my previous post was to also say that I would let the tournament participants vote. If the players are fine with Mind Twist, so be it. I would go with the flow and run the card myself.

All that explanation for your two lines of text. While the logic is immediately apparent to me, I'm sure it takes me more effort to hammer out the words explaining it than to pull some wild claim from my behind like you do.

As for Crucible of Worlds versus Life from the Loam, you have a point that LftL fuels graveyard-based strategies. That is a point in favor of LftL. You, however, fail to consider the other side of the comparison.

In my opinion, the biggest upside to using Crucible is that it does not require additional mana commitment to disrupt your opponent. When you want to execute the Strip Mine lock, it's best to do it in the early game before your opponent can acquire sufficient mana to lay threats and break out of it. In such a situation, neither you nor your opponent are likely to have huge quantities of mana available. Imagine you have Crucible in play and 3 mana available. You can futher your gameplan using that 3 mana while you continue to Strip Mine your opponent. Your opponent also has 3 mana to find a way out of the lock. In the same situation, but with LftL in place of Crucible, you spend 2 mana casting LftL each turn and have just 1 mana to work with. Your opponent still has 3 mana to dig a way out of the lock or to pressure you.

Another big point in favor of Crucible is that LtfL costs you your draw step. Any card advantage you gain during the lock would only be lands as you dregde turn after turn. On the other hand, with Crucible, you get to draw normally, filling your hand with threats to begin killing your opponent while he is still under the lock. If your opponent manages to break out of the lock, LftL would have left you with a hand stuffed full of land. Crucible would have bought you time to sculpt a hand and keep the pressure on your opponent.

Crucible is also colorless while LftL is green. As such, the Crucible lock can be stuffed into any deck. Black, with its many tutors, can utilize this lock well. Blue also has a few tutors for the combo. As a thought exercise, I shall leave you to figure out what they are. On the other hand, any deck which wants to run the lock with LftL has to be green. This restricts the number of commanders who might otherwise benefit from running the lock.

I will grant you another point in favor of LftL. Crucible is an artifact and the opponent can break out of the lock via artifact removal. But when all the points are taken into consideration, I think Crucible is still the more powerful card.

Short of upsetting the entire color pie, you can never make all colors equally playable in Commander. Cards in Magic are designed with 20 life formats in mind. Red and white cards are now usually designed with aggression in mind. They aim to take the opponent down from 20 to 0 life as quickly as possible. They have far fewer cards meant for the long game. This is why they flounder in Commander where players start with 40 life. While these colors are weak on their own, it does not mean they are unplayable. They can combined with other colors to great effect. And no, they don't necessarily have to be combined with blue to be good. Captain Sisay is an example of a competitive commander which does not run blue. Doran, the Siege Tower is another.

As for attacking your character, I think many of us here would prefer to read your explanations on how you avoid giving yourself an unfair advantage as opposed to just "tl;dr". For example, you could submit your decklist early and lock it before you review the decklists of other competitors. That still gives you the ability to play around certain cards you know are present in their decks, but at least that is a step in the right direction. Another way is to do away with the review process altogether and emphasize the responsibility of players to check their decklists thoroughly. If banned cards are found, the player would be issued a match loss and he will have to substitute the banned card with a basic land for future matches.
As for attacking your character, I think many of us here would prefer to read your explanations on how you avoid giving yourself an unfair advantage as opposed to just "tl;dr". For example, you could submit your decklist early and lock it before you review the decklists of other competitors. That still gives you the ability to play around certain cards you know are present in their decks, but at least that is a step in the right direction. Another way is to do away with the review process altogether and emphasize the responsibility of players to check their decklists thoroughly. If banned cards are found, the player would be issued a match loss and he will have to substitute the banned card with a basic land for future matches.



So you're trying to usurp control of the league, or at least try and get me to stop playing in these events. There's no way to "lock" a decklist (editing is turned off once an event starts, however). I'm going to play in these events because I want to play Commander; you're not going to push me out, or intimidate me into not playing, just because you and I have different viewpoints on the format. It's not fair to me to have the extra responsibilities of hosting, and not be able to play. I have never used whatever information I see in other decks to my advantage anyway; I pick a deck I like, and submit it, and then play it. If the metagame has been aggro-centric the past few weeks, I homebrew a control list for it (such as my Grixis "Tap Out" Meta-Buster, see the banner in my sig for Commander 1.10). I have some twenty-four plus decks, it's just a matter of picking whichever one is my "flavour of the week" and then submitting it for that week's event.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Commander 3.01 will feature changes. Lots of changes as I will be play testing cards on the ban list to determine if they can come off, including some commanders. I can't do this right now since Season 2 Championships are about to start. But for 3.01 expect some things to be different.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

As for attacking your character, I think many of us here would prefer to read your explanations on how you avoid giving yourself an unfair advantage as opposed to just "tl;dr". For example, you could submit your decklist early and lock it before you review the decklists of other competitors. That still gives you the ability to play around certain cards you know are present in their decks, but at least that is a step in the right direction. Another way is to do away with the review process altogether and emphasize the responsibility of players to check their decklists thoroughly. If banned cards are found, the player would be issued a match loss and he will have to substitute the banned card with a basic land for future matches.



So you're trying to usurp control of the league, or at least try and get me to stop playing in these events. There's no way to "lock" a decklist (editing is turned off once an event starts, however). I'm going to play in these events because I want to play Commander; you're not going to push me out, or intimidate me into not playing, just because you and I have different viewpoints on the format. It's not fair to me to have the extra responsibilities of hosting, and not be able to play. I have never used whatever information I see in other decks to my advantage anyway; I pick a deck I like, and submit it, and then play it. If the metagame has been aggro-centric the past few weeks, I homebrew a control list for it (such as my Grixis "Tap Out" Meta-Buster, see the banner in my sig for Commander 1.10). I have some twenty-four plus decks, it's just a matter of picking whichever one is my "flavour of the week" and then submitting it for that week's event.

No, I am not trying to take over as host of this tournament. I voiced my concerns over how this tournament is run and have stated my reasons for doing so. If you choose to ignore them, I can't force you to comply. I must emphasize again that I raise those points not for the sake of opposing you, but because I honestly disagree.

Also, your fear response is exaggerated. I'm not trying to prevent you from playing in these tournaments. I have not said the host can't play in the tournament, have I? You have the right to play, just as everyone does. Your position as host grants you both responsibilities and potential privileges. Most reasonable people would be satisfied if you show you have taken measures to make this tournament as fair as possible. For the sake of harmony, I'll take your word that you do not use the information you have to give yourself an edge over the other competitors.
One change I would like to propose, which would be effective for Commander 3.01 that I would like to get some discussion going on, is that I have found a way to make the thirty point life totals work. This, for all of you aggro players, makes it a bit harder on control as they cannot just sit behind a wall of countermagic and just say no. This is a more efficient way of my goal of helping to balance the other four colours against Blue, but I would like to see some discussion on it.

This is just one change I am proposing, but more will be unveiled for the Commander 3.01 thread.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

One change I would like to propose, which would be effective for Commander 3.01 that I would like to get some discussion going on, is that I have found a way to make the thirty point life totals work. This, for all of you aggro players, makes it a bit harder on control as they cannot just sit behind a wall of countermagic and just say no. This is a more efficient way of my goal of helping to balance the other four colours against Blue, but I would like to see some discussion on it.

This is just one change I am proposing, but more will be unveiled for the Commander 3.01 thread.

Starting games at 30 life is something I would like to try out. This ought to give the tournament a little more variety by empowering aggro which now has 10 less life to fight through.
Im agree about 30 lifes, I still playing 30 lifes on real life cmd duel and its better for aggro decks but maeby counters should be up to 10? to make it balanced for all parts?

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%20Season%202%20Championship)

I would love to try 30 life.  In general, the closer we could get to French Duel rules the better.   Speakng of which, is there any way to include a tuck rule?  I suspect not, other than banning all the cards that accomplish it.
I would love to try 30 life.  In general, the closer we could get to French Duel rules the better.   Speakng of which, is there any way to include a tuck rule?  I suspect not, other than banning all the cards that accomplish it.



Unfortunately Huger, there is no way to accomplish the tuck rule in the MODO client. However, I personally prefer the tuck rule in place as a means to fight abusive powerful commanders (think of casting Spell Crumple on a Maelstrom Wanderer, or an Animar, Soul of Elements).

Also, I don't want to "spoil" things, but I tink you might like a couple of changes heading into 3.01.

EDIT: Dyspeth, raf.azevedo, & Cleomar have three hours to submit a list before the event starts.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Just a friendly reminder that there's about thirty minutes until Commander Season 2 Championships start. raf.azevedo and Cleomar are the only ones who still need to upload a list.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Um, when does the tourney start?  And in general for future reference, does the tourney not start at noon, est?
Um, when does the tourney start?  And in general for future reference, does the tourney not start at noon, est?


I have a general tendency to go from PST since I am on PST and is therefore easier for me to remember.

As of now I am still waiting on two lists to come in before I click 'start event'. I figure I will give them until 2pm PST (which is about seventy-five minutes from right now) before I just go ahead and start it anyway, and leave them to play "catch-up" on their points.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Ok, well not that it's a big deal, but just for the record can we get the gatherling.com website to list that the tourney starts at 5 PST (or whenever it typically will), rather than 12 EST (as it currently says).  I had really hoping to get in some of my matches today, but hopefully I can play them out during the week.
Ok, well not that it's a big deal, but just for the record can we get the gatherling.com website to list that the tourney starts at 5 PST (or whenever it typically will), rather than 12 EST (as it currently says).  I had really hoping to get in some of my matches today, but hopefully I can play them out during the week.


 Oh that's right, Gatherling is on EST. Durr. I guess I never put a lot of thought into that. I will set it to start at 3pm EST for Future events then. Sorry about that, I get used to my own time zone and tend to expect other websites are automatically on my own time.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

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Well it's 2:00pm PST, we can't wait forever, so Commander Season 2 Championships is officially underway now. Good luck to everyone involved, and hopefully we will see Cleomar and raf.azevedo submit a list soon!

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Talk about confusing times zones. I live halfway across the world from the US and can never remember exactly when the events start.
Talk about confusing times zones. I live halfway across the world from the US and can never remember exactly when the events start.


Yeah I feel ya. I know of Pacific, Mountain, Central, and Eastern timezones, and how to convert to either one. But after that I, uh...well I know other timezones exist. But that's about it.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Huger Match Record

Wins
3Drinks 2-0

Losses
the_arend 1-2
Bleh. First game and first loss against Yokai. XD
If anyone needed it, Gatherling is back up. Cleomar has successfully reg'd his deck, so now all we're missing is raf.azevedo.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

And raf.azevedo just confirmed his deck, so that gives us our full eight finalists with a registered deck.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

the_arend Standings:

W vs Huger 2 - 1 
W vs 
W vs 
W vs 

L vs Shikogpro 0 - 2
L vs raf.azevedo 0 - 2
L vs Dyspeth 1 - 2
L vs
I agree with start with 30 f life! Well, Lethal commander dmg will continue 21 or 16(30/2 + 1)?
Well, change Lethal poison counters could be increased to 15...

Dream HallsHermit DruidKiki-Jiki, Mirror BreakerMana CryptMana DrainMana VaultMindslaverNecropotenceSerra AscendantSol Ring, and Survival of the Fittest.

I'm OK with most of this bans, but not all... Kiki-Jiki could be banned just as commander... Mana Crypt, Sol Ring and Mana Vault are colorless cards, could be used in any deck, would not be abusive in any color, just in all of them... Serra Ascendant is a interesting card, but it is just a creature... Starting with 30 does not make it too abusive as with 40... These cards I think could be unbanned...

Back to Basics is a blue card, the best color of magic, and it break other decks... Would be at watchlist...

Crucible of Worlds
 AND Life from the Loam really could be banned, these cards with Stripe Mine can win a game just thus...

Jace, TMS... This card is very problematic, I dont think it could be banned yet, but after a board control, if a player plays it, probably win the game... Should add it to watch list...

Oh, remove the counterspells limit of course, I really can not agree with this limit...

What do you think about this suggestions?

Discuss! 
I agree with start with 30 f life! Well, Lethal commander dmg will continue 21 or 16(30/2 + 1)?
Well, change Lethal poison counters could be increased to 15...

Dream HallsHermit DruidKiki-Jiki, Mirror BreakerMana CryptMana DrainMana VaultMindslaverNecropotenceSerra AscendantSol Ring, and Survival of the Fittest.

I'm OK with most of this bans, but not all... Kiki-Jiki could be banned just as commander... Mana Crypt, Sol Ring and Mana Vault are colorless cards, could be used in any deck, would not be abusive in any color, just in all of them... Serra Ascendant is a interesting card, but it is just a creature... Starting with 30 does not make it too abusive as with 40... These cards I think could be unbanned...

Back to Basics is a blue card, the best color of magic, and it break other decks... Would be at watchlist...

Crucible of Worlds
 AND Life from the Loam really could be banned, these cards with Stripe Mine can win a game just thus...

Jace, TMS... This card is very problematic, I dont think it could be banned yet, but after a board control, if a player plays it, probably win the game... Should add it to watch list...

Oh, remove the counterspells limit of course, I really can not agree with this limit...

What do you think about this suggestions?

Discuss! 




Think I have been quiet for too long here.

Firstly, 30 life would be a good thing, getting us closer to the french duel commander. Given such, Serra ascendant would lose it's power given the new life totals, think it should be unbanned.

Given the limits of MTGO there is no way to make the 15 poison work, as with general damage (other than the players tracking it themselves), also no way to monitor.


As with Mana Crypt, Sol Ring and Mana Vault: if everybody is ok seeing a turn 2/3 8 mana commander then go ahead and unban it. Thinking maybe unban one to test then see how it pans out later (maybe i should just say Sol Ring).

I am all for taking away the 7 couner limit, draw go appreciates it, but given the pure nature of the counter heavy deck's maybe another lmitiation could be put in place? Not sure what would be put in place though, pretty sure some of the veterans can think up something.

Back to basics, similar to other cards that target non basics, thinking ruination and blood moon (pretty sure there are alot more), serves the purposes of breaking deck's that rely heavily on non-basics. My philosophy is get caught out with it once, fine, get caught out with it the next week, then it is a pure deck building ommission. Finding a good mix between basics and non-basics should be incorporated when a person builds their deck. Due to this back to basics does not even need to be considered for a ban.


For the crucible/lftl argument, I am just going t say refer to Dyspeth's post earlier on int he thread that discusses these.


For Jace, problematic yes, but all planeswalkers are problematic. Not unbeatable but requires skill to use properly (found out how not to use him myself). If you want to start saying it's ultimate is what breaks it, there are alot of ultimates that breaks games (hence ultimates): Venser lets you exile a permanent when you cast a card, Elspeth makes you stuff indestructable, new gideon exiles all permanents and the list goes on. If your playing against a deck of super friends, of course they would run alot of board wipes/control cause they need the planeswalkers to live and ultimate to win. As stated in another post: do not judge the idnividual card, judge the deck as a whole that makes the card work, then determine based on that whether the 1 card int he 99 is the real problem.

Now, discuss Cool        
           

I'm OK with most of this bans, but not all... Kiki-Jiki could be banned just as commander... Mana Crypt, Sol Ring and Mana Vault are colorless cards, could be used in any deck, would not be abusive in any color, just in all of them... Serra Ascendant is a interesting card, but it is just a creature... Starting with 30 does not make it too abusive as with 40... These cards I think could be unbanned...

Back to Basics is a blue card, the best color of magic, and it break other decks... Would be at watchlist...

Crucible of Worlds
 AND Life from the Loam really could be banned, these cards with Stripe Mine can win a game just thus...

Jace, TMS... This card is very problematic, I dont think it could be banned yet, but after a board control, if a player plays it, probably win the game... Should add it to watch list...

Oh, remove the counterspells limit of course, I really can not agree with this limit...



Those powerful fast mana rocks break the cardinal rule; they provide too much mana too quickly. They are too responsible for making the games fall down to the winner is who opens Sol Ring first. It's only natural, however, that as you play dedicated combo that you want more fast mana. And TBH, I am strongly considering Grim Monolith to take a hit as well; however as it was recently unbanned in Legacy (seeing play in just one deck -- Spring Tide -- it may be okay with that converted mana cost two.

Crucible & Loam- I really, really don't see the need to ban these at the moment. They are not on the level of the t1 Serra, fast mana, Necro, Survival...

Jace, the Mind Sculptor- He is very powerful. He wins games all by himself, provides card advantage, disruption, all in a four cmc package in a colour that certainly doesn't need any help. I want to do something about this...but his pricetag. I don't want to tell people they can't play with their $50 toy; this feels wrong, like I am robbing people who spent that money recently. However, he is in every top Blue deck that can afford him, and that kind of ubiquity is harmful to the format. And he was banned in Standard, currently banned in Modern for power level reasons. So...............

Firstly, 30 life would be a good thing, getting us closer to the french duel commander. Given such, Serra ascendant would lose it's power given the new life totals, think it should be unbanned.

I am all for taking away the 7 counter limit, draw go appreciates it, but given the pure nature of the counter heavy deck's maybe another lmitiation could be put in place? Not sure what would be put in place though, pretty sure some of the veterans can think up something.

Back to basics, similar to other cards that target non basics, thinking ruination and blood moon (pretty sure there are alot more), serves the purposes of breaking deck's that rely heavily on non-basics. My philosophy is get caught out with it once, fine, get caught out with it the next week, then it is a pure deck building ommission. Finding a good mix between basics and non-basics should be incorporated when a person builds their deck. Due to this back to basics does not even need to be considered for a ban.



The problem with Serra, is that it makes for lop-sided games. And it requires specifically narrow answers just for itself -- this is very warping to the format, and if you look at Duel-Commander, Serra is banned there too. I don't want to have to go back to playing Mental Misstep again just to possibly have it in hand when my opponent plays t1 Serra on the play. This is very limiting to deck design space.

Back to Basics on the surface may look similar to Blood Moon, but there is one important detail; B2B is Blue, while Moon is not. One of the few things Blue cannot do well is interact with resolved permanents -- specifically lands as they can't be countered. Meanwhile Red is under-powered anyway, and it IS the colour of land disruption. So why take away one of the colour's primary tools at it's disposal, or why give it's biggest tool to a colour that doesn't need it anyway. Like Duel-Commander, I actually agree with their philosophy of the B2B banning. While it is the builder's perogative to include more non-basics and be open to hate, Blue should not be the colour to punish opponents for this.

For the counter-cap, while I am sure the thirty life makes it impossible to sit behind a wall of permission and just deny everything, however lets take a look at the recent St. Nazaire event: 2 UW, 3 UW/x, 1 U, 1 RUG, 1 G. of those colour combinations, the top decks contain: 15+ counterspells still. This tells me Draw-Go will still be a thing. So the counter-cap is probably a necessity to keep these kinds of oppressive decks the hell away. Or people will just continue to avoid such obnoxious to play against decks anyway.

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Commander Season 2 Championships our finalized. Here's the standings:


































































































Commander Season 2 Championship
RankPlayerMatch PointsOMW %PGW %OGW %Matches Played
1Shikogpro180.4550.8000.4236
2raf.azevedo100.5100.5880.4586
3Huger90.5220.5880.4647
4Yokai_60.5660.4290.5186
5Dyspeth40.4330.5000.3874
63drinks0.6850.4000.6014
7the_arend0.6850.3000.6194
8Cleomar-50.6480.2310.5815


Congrats go to Shikogpro, who piloted Rafiq of the Many to a flawless 6-0 showing, easily taking first place. Thank you to everyone who made it to the championships, and thanks to everyone for continuing to make this event as popular as it is!

Host of the only 1v1 Commander League on Magic Online! Need some information about my events? Shoot me a PM or find me on the client under the name "3drinks"!

  • Eight-Time Commander League Champion
  • Writer at PureMTGO.com
  • Author of THE most definitive Kaalia of the Vast  Primer for 1v1 games Viewable here
  • Official Primer Committee Member at MTGSalvation

IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.02)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.03)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.04)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.06)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.09)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%201.10)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.01)IMAGE(http://www.gatherling.com/displayTrophy.php?event=Commander%202.02)

Thanks to all for the games, great tourney, high competitive decks and high players behind the decks! see you all on CMD Seasson 3 ! :D GL to all !

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