Healer that does good damage recommendations ? (hybrid ?)

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Hello all,

Let me start off by saying that I'm fairly newbish. I've started playing D&D about 1 and a half years ago with another group completely consisting out of people who never played d&d before except 1 session we did somewhere as an introduction. This includes our DM. We are probably doing some stuff wrong here and there but we are having a lot of fun and that's the most important part (just a bit of a disclaimer incase I say something stupid :p)

I'm currently playing a Cleric in our first adventure which is about to wrap up. After that the DM will setup another adventure where we left off (we'll ding level 10 next session). He's letting us choose new characters if we wish so and we'll weave them into the story. I had fun playing my cleric but I would like to do a bit more damage, unfortunately noone else is willing to play the leader so I'm hoping to combine the role a bit.

Currently I'm playing a balanced Cleric with a quarterstaff (a bit more strength than wisdom) using the simple weapon powers (and staff of the serpent giving another d6 when our dm is not being evil about poison resistant monsters ). I think from a pure healerclass I probably squeezed all the damage out that I can. So now I'm thinking of making a hybrid class that can output some more damage. Maybe cleric / ranger (melee) or bard / ranger (bow). As you can see I'm not fixed to the cleric, but I should be able to heal adequately (party of 4 to 5 people including me). Currently healing wise I sometimes have a bit left over because I took a lot of healing encounter powers so I have a bit of headway. So what would be good suggestions for me ? I don't have a preference between caster / melee / ranger as long as the healing and damage is good.

Thanks !

Jorn
Ranger|Cleric, MC Fighter or Warlord depending on whether you want to enhance your striking or leading side.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Yeah, Ranger|Cleric pretty much has this.
Another thing I would like to point out is that an enabling leader is basically a striker in terms of damage output.  If you give buffs to your allies and throw them at your enemies like meat-missiles you can do quite a bit of damage.  If you don't like that it is a bit indirect, then yes go ahead and be a Ranger|Cleric. If someone in your party does a good amount of damage with a Basic Attack then look at some of the enabling powers and classes (Bard, Warlord, etc).
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Another option is Barbarian|Cleric. Having Battle Cleric's Lore means Scale armor, which allows you to spend the hybrid talent feat on Thaneborn. That can be a lot of fun in a way that I think Ranger|Cleric potentially is not. Ranger|Cleric means you do a lot of Twin Strike + minor action attacks. Barbarian means you do a variety of multi-attacks or off-turn attacks, such as Storm of Blades and Thundering Howl.

Mighty Hew is a good choice if you have a melee Defender that you're generally pairing up with.

Btw, some of the MC possibilities:
Avenger: Disciple of Divine Wrath - Oath of Enmity target, do a bunch of attacks. Easier with Barbarian than Ranger because you don't have so many minor attack options.
Fighter: Battle Awareness - something shifts away from you or attacks the Defender that marked him while adjacent to you, you smack them.
Warlord: Resourceful Leader/Bravura Leader - these two feats add +7/11/15 damage when your friends spend action points. Really nice enabling feats that don't hog the spotlight from your friends.
Thanks for the replies guys, it's really helpful !


I do like doing direct damage to be honest I was thinking dual craghammer (or craghammer + something else) for the ranger/cleric for the brutal 2 and with the right power and expertise some nice pushing. Any other weapon combinations that are nice for twin strike ?


Didn't think of Cleric Barbarian, it does sound appealing also, I'll make a test build for that one today or tomorrow and let you guys know what I think


Any more suggestions or ideas are of course welcome  
Generally to-hit > damage.

Meaning that swords (+3 proficency) > hammers (+2 proficency, +1 die size).  It won't be a huge difference, so play what you like, but this is the char-op forum, so we tweak out every last little bit.

And of course, some weapons have specific feats, hammers give a nice bonus to pushing for instance.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

If you are willing to give up cleric, hybriding ranger or barbarian with warlord or runepriest represent nice choices.
Hey guys,

Made a quick barbarian cleric hybrid up to level 9 and have some questions.
I see a lot of powers "while you are raging ...", am I correct that a hybrid barbarian can't rage ? I didn't find anything about it in the character sheet in any case ? Or did I overlook it ? 

Also I see some specific things about beserker fury, but for that one I'm almost sure it's not for hybrids, but wanted to double check.

What would he best secondary stat be for a hybrid barbarian / cleric ? I read somewhere that it was CHAR but don't really notice much powers with it. I did read somewhere that it works well with thaneborn but it's not so obvious what is so good about it ? The damage in any case looks a lot less than cleric / ranger but there's probably a good tradeoff ?

@Misha: I'm open for giving up cleric as long as I can still do decent healing (although I'm a bit more comfortable with cleric because I know that class best), what would the specific benefits be of such a build ?

Thanks !


Jorn
   
Anyone can rage provided they have a power to put them into a rage. 

Usually it is a daily that has an effect that states "You enter ____ rage.  While in this rage you ____"

And rages last the whole encounter unless you end it early, use another rage power to change to a different rage, or you die. 
Both warlord and runepriest are strength-based characters that can stand in the front lines matching up nicely with barbarian and ranger.  They both have a heal just like a cleric, but you will get one per encounter hybrided compared to single classed.  Other than feel, the difference between the two is:

Warlord:
Very strong options in hybrid to take Battlefront Leader (defense) or Combat Leader (initiative)
Some of the best powers in the game (starting with Commander's Strike)
The feat Fight On gives you another encounter heal in paragon

Runepriest:
Cool options to use Wis or Con bonus to AC (you will likely have AC issues with a barbarian)
Very strong healing in utility powers
Your encounter heal grants +2/tier damage bonus to everybody on your team including you
 
Cleric is superior to Runepriest in virtually every manner, that CharOp continues to suggest it regularly has me convinced that you're hung up on Serene and the the Scroll of Protection.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
*Whine* but I want to use scroll of protection!
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
A hybrid cleric ranger multiclassed into runepriest and power swapped for the Scroll would be a decent build Laughing  I hear what you are saying Zathris, and you aren't wrong.

One of the reasons I like runepriest hybrids is because they have extremely strong leading in their utility powers; each of these can break an encounter.
2:  Shield of Sacrifice
6:  Rune of Meritorious Alacrity
10:  Protective Scroll
16:  Rune of Reinvigoration 
22:  Rune of the Hero's Resolve 

They definitely have some weak levels for attack powers, but that is fixable with a decent hybrid.  Warlord is way stronger than runepriest, and runepriest PP's are mediocre at best.  The AC fix from cleric Lore is clearly awesome, but what other key feats and powers do you think really make clerics better than runepriest?
The Essentials Druid Sentinel has good options for combat and damage as well and really supports mixing it up.  Druid of Summer throws d12's for their base damage and the bear spirit gives you +2 to defenses when adjacent.  Druid of Spring gives you d10s and the wolf provides combat advantage in aura one.  

The standard encounter power for this build is combined attack, which lets both you and your spirit attack in the same action.  
Both warlord and runepriest are strength-based characters that can stand in the front lines matching up nicely with barbarian and ranger.  They both have a heal just like a cleric, but you will get one per encounter hybrided compared to single classed.  Other than feel, the difference between the two is:

Warlord:
Very strong options in hybrid to take Battlefront Leader (defense) or Combat Leader (initiative)
Some of the best powers in the game (starting with Commander's Strike)
The feat Fight On gives you another encounter heal in paragon 



Cleric is generally better than Warlord with Ranger/Barbarian as STR/WIS or STR/CHAis a better stat fit while most of the better Warlord builds want INT which does little for either Striker class and has greater AC issues. 

The Essentials Druid Sentinel has good options for combat and damage as well and really supports mixing it up.  Druid of Summer throws d12's for their base damage and the bear spirit gives you +2 to defenses when adjacent.  Druid of Spring gives you d10s and the wolf provides combat advantage in aura one.  

The standard encounter power for this build is combined attack, which lets both you and your spirit attack in the same action.  



Nope. Nope nope nopenopenope. Not only is the Sentinel not a good damaging leader, it's not good, damaging, or a leader.

Play a Genasi Warlord instead, you'll be better in every way.
It would probably help, to start, if you posted the build you are currently using.  It's possible that your current build could be tweaked for damage.

Laser Clerics can deal some decent damage and can still be functional leaders.  I'm actually surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

Granted, we aren't talking OPed Barbarian or Ranger damage here, but if the OP is just asking for "more damage" the best place to start is the current build, see what he is currently working with, and go from there.
Sig
Yes, I killed your BBEG with his own lair:
Setting: Tomb with a perilous bridge and cliff 100 feet above a lava pit. Mummy pops out of his sarcophagus, initiative: Felix, Half-Elf Artificer: Twin Strike with crossbow. Trump (ala Donald), Eladrin Warlord: Charges mummy with Opening Shove, pushing off the cliff. Mummy fails saving throw, and falls into pit. Sanshiro (ala Japanese "superhero" Segata), Minotaur Barbarian: Strength check to lift sarcophagus and carry to cliff. Free action, drop sarcophagus into square above mummy. Sarcophagus drops on mummy, shoving him further down into lava. Mummy: proceeds to make a series of horrible athletics checks to swim and climb cliff. Dies a horrible death with lava permeating every orifice. Entire Party: Watches on in delight, faces alit with the glow of lava and flaming undead.
Original CharOpper
I soap myself up, and turn up the hot water in the shower, so my sweat mixes with the soap, slickening my skin: +5 to grapple I use my own legs as a shield since only upper-body hits matter: +5 defense I use my teammates bodies to construct a vehicle for myself, and dual-wield their weapons because as long as I win, we all win: +10 attack, +10 defense I completely ignore the enemy, their attacks, the devastating damage they are dealing to me and my team, and strike directly for their base, completely obliterating them, their way of life, and any chance they had at survival as a species: WIN Ender: The Original CharOpper and Power Gamer.
I will definitely try making a Warlord hybrid today or on Thursday to see what it gives. Druid and animal companion I find less appealing a bit from an RP point of view (but that's just me), but maybe I'll check it out after the Warlord (got a busy couple of days ahead).

About posting my current character, sure no problem, I'd love to get some feedback. However I'm not sure how to do it. I use the D&D insider builder and it only exports to a .dnd4e file which is a very long xml file. I can put the file to download or is there some good way to get a summary txt view as I see posted here sometimes ? I can always put everything down manually but maybe there's a simpler way

Thanks,

Jorn   
Pull up your character, look at the character sheet.  There is a dropbox and select character summary.  That puts down the most relevent information.  Use the copy to clipboard button and then paste the information in a post.

You can use [ sblock ] [ /sblock ] or [ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ].  Just omit the spaces between the [ ] 
Apparently my Frostbow of Sehanine build still ranks in the DPR comparisons for 12-24. Stil has two heals per combat with plenty of damage.
This is my current character. it's a balanced cleric with a bit more focus on melee using the simple weapon powers and staff of the serpent to get some extra dice. It's my first character ever so be gentle

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======



Astaldo Veskander Rai, level 9



Human, Cleric (Templar)



Build: Battle Cleric



Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore



Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort



Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)



Theme: Pack Outcast





FINAL ABILITY SCORES



STR 20, CON 12, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 18, CHA 12





STARTING ABILITY SCORES



STR 16, CON 12, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 16, CHA 12







AC: 26 Fort: 23 Ref: 16 Will: 24



HP: 72 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 18





TRAINED SKILLS



Arcana +8, Diplomacy +10, Heal +13, Insight +13, Religion +8





UNTRAINED SKILLS



Acrobatics +4, Athletics +9, Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +5, History +3, Intimidate +5, Nature +8, Perception +8, Stealth +4, Streetwise +5, Thievery +4





POWERS



Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack



Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack



Pack Outcast Utility: Body of the Wolf



Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort



Cleric Utility: Favor of the Gods



Cleric Feature: Healer's Mercy



Cleric Utility: Healing Word



Cleric Attack 1: Sacred Flame



Cleric Attack 1: Weapon of Divine Protection



Cleric Attack 1: Sundering Might



Cleric Attack 1: Moment of Glory



Cleric Attack 1: Shield of the Gods



Invoker Attack 1: Hand of Radiance



Cleric Utility 2: Shield of Faith



Cleric Attack 3: Death Surge



Cleric Utility 6: Stream of Life



Cleric Attack 7: Strengthen the Faithful



Cleric Attack 9: Divine Power





FEATS



Level 1: Superior Fortitude



Level 1: Ritual Caster



Level 1: Battle Healer



Level 2: Staff Expertise



Level 4: Mark of Warding



Level 6: Acolyte of Divine Secrets



Level 8: Superior Will





ITEMS



Ritual Book



Adventurer's Kit



Tenser's Floating Disk



Dwarven Scale Armor +1



Scale Armor



Javelin



Quarterstaff



Healer's Brooch +1 x1



Magic Accurate symbol +1 x1



Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1



Accurate staff of the Serpent +2 x1



Spellbook



Dancing Lights



Bloodiron Scorpion Scale Armor +2 x1



Moradin's Blessing of Iron (level 8)



Shadow Passage



Fey Passage



Woundpatch



Fluid Funds



Knock



Leomund's Secret Chest



Charm Token



====== End ======




I'll take a look at the frostbow of sehanine build also, thanks for posting it
A hybrid cleric ranger multiclassed into runepriest and power swapped for the Scroll would be a decent build   I hear what you are saying Zathris, and you aren't wrong.

One of the reasons I like runepriest hybrids is because they have extremely strong leading in their utility powers; each of these can break an encounter.
2:  Shield of Sacrifice
6:  Rune of Meritorious Alacrity
10:  Protective Scroll
16:  Rune of Reinvigoration 
22:  Rune of the Hero's Resolve 

They definitely have some weak levels for attack powers, but that is fixable with a decent hybrid.  Warlord is way stronger than runepriest, and runepriest PP's are mediocre at best.  The AC fix from cleric Lore is clearly awesome, but what other key feats and powers do you think really make clerics better than runepriest?


"Nearly All" isn't specific enough for you? Runepriests, like Artificers, basically want to spam their at-will because their encounter powers are so lackluster, and Artificers have IAs and a much much better at-will. I realize that's more of an Artificer vs Runepriest argument, but basically, you can have Wis near enough to attack capable (or if you're MC'd Avenger, or just use your Channel Divinity) that you can pick at least one of those powers, the rest of the Str Powers just have to be better than Rune of Diminishment - Mighty Hew? check, Hammer of the Gods? check. And there's at least 4 others in Heroic, most of them scaling better than +2/4/6 vs 1 target. And then there's Daily enabling, and did I mention ChanDiv?

Runepriest *might* get better in Epic, I have neither the time nor inclination to discover the possibilities, but they are by far the worst actual leader.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Worse than the sentinel?
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Pretty sure sentinels aren't an "actual leader."
Makes sense.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Wow, Charop has fallen so far when we start suggesting Sentinels and |Runepriest as "good" and "encounter breaking" respectively.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Cleric utilities that heal still suck; they are full of standard actions, ranged effects, and/or only work on adjacent allies.  This is a big problem if you need to make up for the encounter heal you lost from hybriding.  If you are a melee striker/leader hybrid you can make up for poor non at will attack choices in runepriest by not taking them (well, you have to get one of each); Rune of Endless Fire is a no-brainer daily for a leader striker.  Cleric has a huge leg up in terms of AC, but it isn't black and white.
Utilities that heal suck in general because they aren't needed every encounter unless your party has other problems (which |Cleric is better at solving due to being better at damage and buffing). Generally when the boop has hit the fan, your everyday surge+ power isn't going to be sufficient and you need daily healing power on the lines of Bacon of Hope, Stream of Life, or Healers Momentum to effectively "reset HP". Clerics are good at that. The idea that Leaders need to meet some sort of Encounter Healing quota is just grog-speak.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Cleric utilities that heal still suck; they are full of standard actions, ranged effects, and/or only work on adjacent allies.  This is a big problem if you need to make up for the encounter heal you lost from hybriding.  If you are a melee striker/leader hybrid you can make up for poor non at will attack choices in runepriest by not taking them (well, you have to get one of each); Rune of Endless Fire is a no-brainer daily for a leader striker.  Cleric has a huge leg up in terms of AC, but it isn't black and white.



Don't forget the other part of BCL - you give a +2 to hit until the EoNT. Which means that if you heal yourself at the start of your turn, you get +2 to hit for 2 rounds...and if you heal others, they only get it for 1 round.
I took a look at warlord / ranger, and it looks interesting. What surprised me the most that unlike the Cleric Hybrid, the Warlord still gets all his uses of his healing power instead of just once per encounter like the Cleric ? I'm still leaning more towards Cleric / Ranger for the STR and WIS combo.

I'm trying to make a Cleric Ranger and will post it once I'm done, hopefully later this weekend ... (also posted my current cleric a bit above)

Thanks,

Jorn        
Hybrid Warlord and Cleric both say "the healing power works the same way as the non-hybrid version, except that you can only use it once per encounter". Ignore the "Special:" part.
Warlord|Rangers can grab Fight On, and Cleric|Rangers can look to Gambler's Word for extra uses of the Leader Heal.

If you're the only Leader in the group, you probably do want to invest in the feat AND a utility Healing resource like Word of Vigor.  If you've got another leader and are playing up the striker side?  Maybe a utility heal but don't bother with the feat investment.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?


What would he best secondary stat be for a hybrid barbarian / cleric ? I read somewhere that it was CHAR but don't really notice much powers with it. I did read somewhere that it works well with thaneborn but it's not so obvious what is so good about it ? The damage in any case looks a lot less than cleric / ranger but there's probably a good tradeoff ?

    




Either Charisma or Wisdom for the Willpower Defense. If you go with Wisodom, you also get full access to the Cleric powers (you need 1 of each anyways). Never looked at barbarians very closely so i cannot speak to the reasons for +charisma  

STR/CHA for Thaneborn build. BCL takes care of AC and Thaneborn has some nice self and party utility. Shatterbone Strike is a great set up for a nova, Curtain of Steel until Hail of Steel comes online at 13 gets a nice boost for someone having the audacity to swing at you, etc. It also opens up intimidation tricks, which (depending on DM) can be very handy and also gives you the option of being the party "face", which is always important.
STR/CHA for Thaneborn build. BCL takes care of AC and Thaneborn has some nice self and party utility. Shatterbone Strike is a great set up for a nova, Curtain of Steel until Hail of Steel comes online at 13 gets a nice boost for someone having the audacity to swing at you, etc. It also opens up intimidation tricks, which (depending on DM) can be very handy and also gives you the option of being the party "face", which is always important.


Really not sure it's worthwhile to completely ignore over half of the Clerics powers on top of Cha being overall weaker than Wis.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.

Hello all,



I made my first attempt at making a human cleric/ranger hybrid. Before I post it below, some remarks:



1) It's a first draft, at this moment don't pay attention to the inventory, still deciding on what kind of weapons to take.



2) weapon feats, currently I'm in doubt which weapon I want to use. I'm mainly torn between craghammer and waraxe. Maybe heavy blades. I like the craghammer because with Icon of Fear I could do some pushing and together with bludgeon expertise I would be able to increase the distance pushed to 2. It also has brutal 2 which is great for me as I have a tendency to throw low Waraxe on the other hand has D12 and with expertise it can also negate a 1 throw. I'm not sure which one is better on the long run, I'm leaning towards craghammer. What do you guys think ? About my feats, currently I'm using a battleaxe to test it so that's why the mix of Axe Expertise and wearpon proficiency (craghammer). Once I decide I'll clean that up



3) I'm also not sure about my ability scores. Is the array I'm using the best one in this case and should I reduce char to 10 and put 12 in dex ?



4) What would be a good diety that gives extra benefits to feats and items ? Don't have channel divinity so I guess that's less important.



Here's the first draft of the character:



Show


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======



Astaldo HYBRID RANGER, level 9



Human, Cleric/Ranger



Hybrid Talent Option: Ranger Fighting Style



Ranger Fighting Style Option: Two-Blade Fighting Style (Hybrid)



Hybrid Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore



Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Reflex



Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort



Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)



Theme: Pack Outcast





FINAL ABILITY SCORES



STR 20, CON 12, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 18, CHA 12





STARTING ABILITY SCORES



STR 16, CON 12, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 16, CHA 12







AC: 26 Fort: 23 Ref: 17 Will: 21



HP: 77 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 19





TRAINED SKILLS



Acrobatics +9, Athletics +14, Heal +13, Perception +13, Religion +8





UNTRAINED SKILLS



Arcana +3, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +5, History +3, Insight +8, Intimidate +5, Nature +8, Stealth +4, Streetwise +5, Thievery +4





POWERS



Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack



Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack



Pack Outcast Utility: Body of the Wolf



Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort



Cleric Utility: Healing Word



Hunter's Quarry  Power: Hunter's Quarry



Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike



Cleric Attack 1: Icon of Fear



Ranger Attack 1: Fox's Cunning



Ranger Attack 1: Jaws of the Wolf



Cleric Attack 1: Shield of the Gods



Ranger Utility 2: Yield Ground



Cleric Attack 3: Resurgent Sun



Ranger Attack 3: Disruptive Strike



Cleric Utility 6: Bastion of Health



Ranger Attack 9: Attacks on the Run





FEATS



Toughness



Level 1: Hybrid Talent



Level 1: Superior Fortitude



Level 2: Axe Expertise



Level 4: Staggering Strike



Level 6: Lethal Hunter



Level 8: Weapon Proficiency (Craghammer)





ITEMS



Adventurer's Kit



Dwarven Scale Armor +1



Scale Armor



Javelin



Quarterstaff



Healer's Brooch +1 x1



Magic Accurate symbol +1 x1



Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1



Accurate staff of the Serpent +2



Spellbook



Bloodiron Scorpion Scale Armor +2 x1



Moradin's Blessing of Iron (level 8)



Shadow Passage



Fey Passage



Woundpatch



Fluid Funds



Knock



Leomund's Secret Chest



Charm Token



Battleaxe



Adamantine Battleaxe +2 x2



====== End ======





 



an additional questions: staggering strike feat: does it work together with bludgeon expertise ? So if I forgo a die to push 1 square, but I did the damage with a craghammer, can I push it 2 squares ?

Retrain Hybrid Talent to Prime Shot when you hit Paragon and pick the appropriate feats (since you're already going Str/Wis).

Pick Light Blade Expertise + Rapier + Short Sword (if you want to abuse vulnerabilities, you could pick a Firewind Blade instead, you'd need heavy blades as weapons in this case). If u don't need your MC slot for feats/powerswapping later on, you could pick Spiked Chain Training, instead. I'd advise against it, though.

In your case, deity is only important, if you want to go Morninglord (Amaunator), or pick Silvery Glow (Sehanine) as your feat bonus to damage. You shouldn't pick "Power of.." feats to enhance your divine at-wills because you already got the best one with Twin Strike.

Human's racial is nice, but Genasi is superior in so many ways.

Don't try to optimize around a cleric at-will, if you already got Twin Strike: You won't ever use it as a standard.

Some of your power choices are strange, as well. Please look all powers up again in the Ranger's/Cleric's handbook.

Your first feat should be either Expertise or HT, followed by the one you didn't pick first.
Drop Superior Fortitude and don't ever pick it!!
Pushing enemies does nothing for your damage, right now. If you want to optimize around damage resulting out of pushing (via Draconic Arrogance) later on, be warned: It's very feat intensive (and locks either your race or ED) and wont be worth it, since you're feat starved as ****, anyway.
So, drop Staggering Strike and don't ever pick it!!
Do you realize that Lethal Hunter ads 1d2 damage per round and tier?
So, drop Lethal Hunter and don't ever pick it!!!!!!³³³³
Go the Light Blade route i mentioned above and don't waste a feat for proficiency.

Yes, Staggering Strike works together with Bludgeon Expertise, but you should really forget about the whole pushing thing.




Power of Skill to use Righteous Brand as a MBA actually isn't a bad choice, as you also get +1 to all trained skills, which is an oft-overlooked benefit of that feat. While you already have a passable MBA as a Str based character, you are most likely to use your MBA in conjunction with someone else attacking, or as an off-turn attack (particularly as a Tactical Warpriest), so the combination at least passes as "worth the feat" for many variants of the build.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
1) Light blades: Rapier + Short sword as Pink said. Light Blade Expertise should be one of your first feats.

2) Hybrid Talent: Prime Shot is what you want. Take this near Paragon Tier then take Prime Punisher and Called Shot in Paragon.

3) Since you're a human, Cipher theme + Adroit Explorer PP go well together (doesn't really take off until 16, so if you'll stop before then take something else).

4) Level 1 encounter power should be Off-Hand Strike. If you take a Cleric encounter at level 1, then your level 3 encounter should be Off-Hand Strike or Ruffling Sting.  Claws of the Griffon at level 7 will give you two attack rolls and four damage rolls. If you want to do maximum damage, this will help.   
Nearly all of that is questionable advice, and even the weapon choice is arguable.

2) The Prime feat chain is 3 feats to gain +1 hit +5 damage against enemies adjacent to none of your allies, and while the Ranger|Cleric built as a Striker is fairly self sufficient and can drop a foe in 1 round, one built as a leader (read: more cleric powers than Ranger powers) is far more dependent on allies. Hybrid Talent for Channel Divinity: Favor of the Gods is your Leader choice

3) Cipher is terrible, Melee Leader = Ironwrought.

4) Again, Melee Leader. Why are you suggesting multiple striker powers, especially ones that eat into Action Economy, not even a striker build would take that many Minors when Disruptive Strike and Mighty Hew are on the table (Once you take Battle Awareness to MC Fighter, you can retrain Mighty Hew into Cause Fear or Prophetic Guidance)
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.