And You Thought 3rd Ed Was Broken;)

Since 1995 or so I have more or less been the eternal DM. Back in the 90's we decided to do something that was kind of stupid even by out standards. We thought we would try a high level game with the kid gloves pulled off. The TSR era handbooks of the time had advice on who to do things like a fighther, thief, wizard type game. We picked a wizard each starting at level 19 as we almost never got that high. AD&D characters kind fof ran into massive xp tables for the higher levels and advancement was slow.


Our archmage party was run by the players sharing the DM role. Sometimes we had no DM and ran it by consensus among the players. Since we were all deliberately trying to be munchkins and breaking the game we had a no holds barred approach. For the most part this meant we could all pick our spells and magic items from the Encyclopedia Magica and spells from the Priest and Wizard spell compendiums. From memory there was some sort of limit as to what we could actually pick. The other players all went for the nastiest combat spells they could fins. My spell of choice was Stasis Clone a level 9 clone spell variant Manshoon uses in the Realms to not die. 25 years of Dragon and obscure books worth of magic items and spells. Wish was also one of my picks.


Between the group we also had a large selection of the TSR campaign settings. In the anything goes mentality lets break this game and have some fun we let almost everything in. Between us we had the boxed sets for Birthright, Darksun, Dragonlance, FR, Mystra, Planescape, Ravenloft, Red Steel, Spelljammer etc. We had most of them anyway. My personal abuse rule of choice were the magical potions as fruit from Darksun and similar rules. While the other players loaded themselves up with combat related magic items I choose a suitable large selection of potions of longevity in fruit form.


Since the game was a broken game of archmage skulduggery we all done what any mad wizard would do. We each created a lair. I needed somewhere safe to store my magical fruit trees as I wanted to have a farm supplying potions of longevity for wish spell abuse. The others created towers, a dungeon complex, a magical Inn and a downed Spelljammer ship as lair. My lair oh doom was a prismatic sphere made permanent on the elemental plane of fire. Another wish spell created a bubble inside it with no elemental matter. 4 Mordenkainens magnificent mansion spells where created and 3 of them had permanent prismatic walls put on the other aide of them for any unwelcome visitors. The mansions were made permanent via wish spells. The 4th was equipped as a nice comfy inn for visitors. A modified spell engine spell was put in the lobby to suck up any magic spells cast with a few golems as well. The other 3 mansions were turned into magical hot houses and my personal lab for mad bwa ha ha wizardo experiments. One generally needed a wizard, ranger or druid to tend you magical fruit trees. A few simulacrum spells took care of that problem. A personal extra dimensional army was created which meant several hundred level 6-10 wizard simulacrums IIRC.


Anyway all of these potions were used to fuel unlimited wish spells and stasis clone spells were used to keep one alive. We did not do that much adventuring as such as we were all to busy plotting off how to kill one another in various amusing ways. The more or the top and creative ways of doing it were rewarded. Ambushed and spell duels involving initiative rolls were just so uncreative. My wizards 1st death involved a flunked saving throw vs a troll shamans hold person spell and the other PCs though it would be humorous to teleport off. Level 19 wizard becomes troll food and stasis clone kicks in.


Sooner or later the other players kind of figure out that in effect I can cast unlimited wish spells. They try the frontal assault and actually manage to deal with the spell engine and golems trick. It takes them a moment to to figure out where the mansions are. One of the other archmages promptly dies after walking through the door into a prismatic wall and they manage to get through that. It turns out that 5 archmages cannot deal with over a hundred simulacrums battling it out in a reverse gravity prismatic wall minefield.


The most creative PC on PC death involved the Inn lair which was more or less just an inn. The innn owner invited a local tribe of orcs to come by for free ale. The orcs thought it was a good idea because option B was 6 archmages using cloudkill spells on their lair. Anyway it was rather messy affair as orcs do. His goal however was to have a full latrine. I'm not sure what the most humiliating death in D&D is but getting hit in the butt via a glyph of warding power word liquefy spell as you do your business is probably one of them. Once you get turned into water while doing your business on the porcelain throne and landing in orc bodily fluids is probably right up there though.


We were young, stupid and went out of our way to break the game no sane DM who was sober and capable of speech would allow via unlimited access to splats and campaign setting material. In a way it was balanced though as we were all wizards and it was like playing Type 1/Vintage magic the gathering with the power 9 in play. Everyone has it so it is fair. Overall it was broken as hell, entertaining and it kept us amused for a few afternoons as it was a disposable campaign of madness. The moral of the story is do not let any and all splats and campaign setting material into the game and be very careful with spell compendium type books.


Screams of pain from the balance brigade in 3,2,1.......


 I wonder if they will make a complete book of munchkins for D&DN. Since it is suppose to be inclusive an support all playstyles. On very rare occasions throwing the rulebook and sanity out the window can be fun.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Why would we scream? We know older editions of the game struggled with balance, and it's the crux of a lot of our complaints about the 4e haters and the 5e packets?

If anything this is a perfect example of why we're right. 
We basically broke the rules even by AD&D standards. We knew exactly what we were doing and why. It was not a serious game. Think AD&D meets Paranoia. 

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

The moral of the story is not that we shouldn't include all splats. The moral of the story is that TSR was bad at making balanced splats. In 4e you can run an anything goes game and it is still very playable, so it's not some iron law of the universe that splatbooks break the game.

EDIT: I don't want to imply that balance is the only important thing. Your game sounds fun. It is simply not true that an anything goes game HAS to be broken though. 
"So shall it be! Dear-bought those songs shall be be accounted, and yet shall be well-bought. For the price could be no other. Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil yet be good to have been." - Manwë, High King of the Valar
The moral of the story is not that we shouldn't include all splats. The moral of the story is that TSR was bad at making balanced splats. In 4e you can run an anything goes game and it is still very playable, so it's not some iron law of the universe that splatbooks break the game.



Well said.
The moral of the story is not that we shouldn't include all splats. The moral of the story is that TSR was bad at making balanced splats. In 4e you can run an anything goes game and it is still very playable, so it's not some iron law of the universe that splatbooks break the game.

EDIT: I don't want to imply that balance is the only important thing. Your game sounds fun. It is simply not true that an anything goes game HAS to be broken though. 



 It was the multi setting mix that really broke the game. Magic is goig to be inherently broken. 4th ed may have been balanced but here we are testing D&DN.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

The moral of the story is not that we shouldn't include all splats. The moral of the story is that TSR was bad at making balanced splats. In 4e you can run an anything goes game and it is still very playable, so it's not some iron law of the universe that splatbooks break the game.

EDIT: I don't want to imply that balance is the only important thing. Your game sounds fun. It is simply not true that an anything goes game HAS to be broken though. 



 It was the multi setting mix that really broke the game. Magic is goig to be inherently broken. 4th ed may have been balanced but here we are testing D&DN.



Which is a zero indicator that people don't want or don't like or don't care about balance.
Nopes but BA+ classic spells being disguised as traditional spells when it is just really 4th ed powers in drag may do it. You want a better balanced game thn 3rd ed but you do not eed to go to the extremes they are taking it. You will get some gamers but I suspect they are going to end up with another walk out.  

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

4th ed may have been balanced but here we are testing D&DN.


And so it begins.
Nopes but BA+ classic spells being disguised as traditional spells when it is just really 4th ed powers in drag may do it. You want a better balanced game thn 3rd ed but you do not eed to go to the extremes they are taking it. You will get some gamers but I suspect they are going to end up with another walk out.  



I still don't see the problem with Bounded Accuracy so far. I was never a fan of the numbers mill in the last 2 editions such as monsters with AC in the 30's and 40's and attacks reaching 20's and 30's. It just seemed inflated for no particular reason other than "well, the numbers go up so that means I'm getting better!" when in reality typical encounters were about the same level as the Party, thus maintaining the usual 50% to 60% accuracy range. 

I'm not really sure what you mean by spells being 4E powers unless your referring to At-Will cantrips but I just don't see it. Sure, it's at-will but other games to at-will magic as well. Do we really want to, as a game direction, go back to wizards going without magic for multiple encounters again? I sure as hell don't.  
THe spells do not scale like the classics. And yeah the number porn was out of whack the last 2 editions but they could go back to AD&D numers and teak them for example. Mor or less stretch BA out to 30-40 range.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

The numbers don't scale like the classics to avoid the "quadratic power increase" issue.

You want a stronger fireball? Cast it from a higher level slot.
THe spells do not scale like the classics. And yeah the number porn was out of whack the last 2 editions but they could go back to AD&D numers and teak them for example. Mor or less stretch BA out to 30-40 range.



The spells scale if the Player wishes it, it's not automatic like in 3E and I'm assuming pre-3E and I think that's a good thing. As for BA, 30 - 40 is the range numbers I'm trying not to see again. I don't want to see monsters with defense like this -> AC 33 (+3 armor, +11 Dex, +4 natural, +3 Deflection) and Attacks like this -> Longsword +31/+26/+21/+16 (1d8+22). To me, it doesn't make sense when the rest of the world is filled with Ho-hum mundane people with an AC of 12 and Longsword attack of +3 (1d8+2).
I like that Zard's psyche requires him to hallucinate a "balance brigade" that feels as much anger towards the way he plays as he feels towards the way other people play.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
THe spells do not scale like the classics. And yeah the number porn was out of whack the last 2 editions but they could go back to AD&D numers and teak them for example. Mor or less stretch BA out to 30-40 range.



The spells scale if the Player wishes it, it's not automatic like in 3E and I'm assuming pre-3E and I think that's a good thing. As for BA, 30 - 40 is the range numbers I'm trying not to see again. I don't want to see monsters with defense like this -> AC 33 (+3 armor, +11 Dex, +4 natural, +3 Deflection) and Attacks like this -> Longsword +31/+26/+21/+16 (1d8+22). To me, it doesn't make sense when the rest of the world is filled with Ho-hum mundane people with an AC of 12 and Longsword attack of +3 (1d8+2).



Cantrips scale... the other spells don't.  And before you say anything, casting a fireball with a level 4 slot to get 1 extra D6 is not scaling, its just a trap option.

As for the larger numbers in an unbounded system, there is a good thread going called "Unbinding Accuracy" so I won't go into too much detail here, but suffice it to say that you can get the exact same effective outputs per character  and keep AC from over-inflating with a much bigger numbers pool which also helps to absorb bonuses and penalties that actually stack (AKA actually matter).... rather than the current system where a frightened, drunk, blind, prone fighter has the same penalty as a rogue attempting a sneak attack.

And finally... yeah I am okay with dragons and demons and powerful PCs having much bigger bonuses than the town guardsmen.  Its called fantasy for a reason.... there are people raining meteors down on their enemies... I think we can deal with the best warrior in world being 20/30 times better than Frank the castle accountant. (who, by the way, can totally dual wield with no penalties)
4th ed may have been balanced but here we are testing D&DN.


And so it begins.


I was wondering how it would take before someone starts another Edition War.

I'm saddened that we didn't get past the first page.

Cantrips scale... the other spells don't.  And before you say anything, casting a fireball with a level 4 slot to get 1 extra D6 is not scaling, its just a trap option.



Perhaps your not familiar with LFQW, so I'd suggest looking that up before wanting spells to scale again like the did pre-4E. A cantrip is considered a wizard's main attack ability which is designed to be used in lieu of weapons and thus, it's supposed to scale. So long as they don't scale outside of weapon-users damage output that is.  


 As for the larger numbers in an unbounded system, there is a good thread going called "Unbinding Accuracy" so I won't go into too much detail here, but suffice it to say that you can get the exact same effective outputs per character  and keep AC from over-inflating with a much bigger numbers pool which also helps to absorb bonuses and penalties that actually stack (AKA actually matter).... rather than the current system where a frightened, drunk, blind, prone fighter has the same penalty as a rogue attempting a sneak attack.



That sounds far more of a problem with Sneak Attack than not allowing multiple stacking of Disadvantage.   


And finally... yeah I am okay with dragons and demons and powerful PCs having much bigger bonuses than the town guardsmen.  Its called fantasy for a reason.... there are people raining meteors down on their enemies...



Yea, that's not fantasy to me. I'm also not sayng that things like Demons and Dragons shouldn't be powerful or near impossible for mundanes to defeat but I do think it rests more with HP than AC/Attack bonuses. A town guard that slams his sword into a Dragon's leg will inflict some damage, but no where near enough for the dragon to take notice.

 I think we can deal with the best warrior in world being 20/30 times better than Frank the castle accountant. (who, by the way, can totally dual wield with no penalties)



Your making dual-wielding sound far more difficult than it really is, trust me.
4th ed may have been balanced but here we are testing D&DN.


And so it begins.


I was wondering how it would take before someone starts another Edition War.

I'm saddened that we didn't get past the first page.


Seriously, I mean, post 6? Really Zard?
4th ed may have been balanced but here we are testing D&DN.


And so it begins.


I was wondering how it would take before someone starts another Edition War.

I'm saddened that we didn't get past the first page.


It was the OP who did it. I'm surprised it got past the first post.

Cantrips scale... the other spells don't.  And before you say anything, casting a fireball with a level 4 slot to get 1 extra D6 is not scaling, its just a trap option.



Perhaps your not familiar with LFQW, so I'd suggest looking that up before wanting spells to scale again like the did pre-4E. A cantrip is considered a wizard's main attack ability which is designed to be used in lieu of weapons and thus, it's supposed to scale. So long as they don't scale outside of weapon-users damage output that is.  


 As for the larger numbers in an unbounded system, there is a good thread going called "Unbinding Accuracy" so I won't go into too much detail here, but suffice it to say that you can get the exact same effective outputs per character  and keep AC from over-inflating with a much bigger numbers pool which also helps to absorb bonuses and penalties that actually stack (AKA actually matter).... rather than the current system where a frightened, drunk, blind, prone fighter has the same penalty as a rogue attempting a sneak attack.



That sounds far more of a problem with Sneak Attack than not allowing multiple stacking of Disadvantage.   


And finally... yeah I am okay with dragons and demons and powerful PCs having much bigger bonuses than the town guardsmen.  Its called fantasy for a reason.... there are people raining meteors down on their enemies...



Yea, that's not fantasy to me. I'm also not sayng that things like Demons and Dragons shouldn't be powerful or near impossible for mundanes to defeat but I do think it rests more with HP than AC/Attack bonuses. A town guard that slams his sword into a Dragon's leg will inflict some damage, but no where near enough for the dragon to take notice.

 I think we can deal with the best warrior in world being 20/30 times better than Frank the castle accountant. (who, by the way, can totally dual wield with no penalties)



Your making dual-wielding sound far more difficult than it really is, trust me.



1.  I play pathfinder... I know what spell scaling looks like, heck, I started in 2e so... yeah I am familiar.  Spells should scale.  How they scale might be up for discussion, but not scaling at all is a big issue for me.

2.  How is that not a problem with disadvantage not stacking?  Here's a real common one.  You have a range penalty for shooting a bow.  In effect, all  other penalties you are suffering from are ignored, because that attack would be made with disadvantage anyway.  Or, you are a barbarian raging.  Every penalty imaginable is on you, but you don't care because that singular instance of advantage that you get from rage just negates all of them.  Yes it is an issue, no it doesn't belong to sneak attack. 

3.  This is a choice not an improvement.  It is also a choice that diverges from every single previous edition of D&D.  "hard as dragon scales" pretty much loses any place as a quote in this game... regular chain mail is harder... just look at the mechanics.  Chain mail provides the same AC that a Dragon Has. What is harder to hit... Frank the Accountant in chainmail or a Dragon?  ...hmm, lets see... I am going to say pretty much the same.  That seems appropriate to a fantasy game right?
4th ed may have been balanced but here we are testing D&DN.


And so it begins.



Yeah, really Zard?

Why is this kind of stuff necessary?

You don't see me posting about how much I hate 3.X in every single thread, but you somehow manage to launch an attack on 4th edition in every single one you get involved in.




On topic,

Sounds like a fun game.

What was the point of the thread? 
What I fidn oddest is that Zard picks a fight with 4e fans...in a topic he started that has nothing to do with 4e.
I don't care about the fact he might try to start an edition.

I just wonder how he able to make these very life long story threads and still
got more life long stories to share? Yell





 
I don't care about the fact he might try to start an edition.

I just wonder how he able to make these very life long story threads and still
got more life long stories to share? 





 



Well, to be honest, if I started sharing "fun game times with the Admiral" stories I could do a good few hundred threads.

It'd be pretty pointless, but then I'm yet to see the point of this thread either. 
4th ed may have been balanced but here we are testing D&DN.


And so it begins.


I was wondering how it would take before someone starts another Edition War.

I'm saddened that we didn't get past the first page.


It was the OP who did it. I'm surprised it got past the first post.


It just got more blatant after the first post, that's my issue.  This thread is against the rules, and I hope gets shut down.
I like that Zard's psyche requires him to hallucinate a "balance brigade" that feels as much anger towards the way he plays as he feels towards the way other people play.

Lol, each time I visualize men with black suits arresting a group of player in the evening to confiscate every game books present on their black list, and telling them that they will not have a second chance.

What is the name of the resistance ? The league of imbalanced gentlemen ?

If you think my english is bad, just wait until you see my spanish and my italian. Defiling languages is an art.

Wouldn't one Disjunction spell drop the prismatic sphere and deposit the contents of all the mansions into the elemental plane of fire, all without any protection from the environment (or means of breathing?)

Also, this still isn't anything compared to Pun-pun in 3E.
Well, to be honest, if I started sharing "fun game times with the Admiral" stories I could do a good few hundred threads.

It'd be pretty pointless, but then I'm yet to see the point of this thread either. 



For the longest of times, I wanted to write a story based on a D&D campaign. 
I used to do it, but now I want to try it again and hopefully with this edition. 

Edit: I try to PM you about your stories, but it seem you blocked me. 

Well, to be honest, if I started sharing "fun game times with the Admiral" stories I could do a good few hundred threads.

It'd be pretty pointless, but then I'm yet to see the point of this thread either. 



For the longest of times, I wanted to write a story based on a D&D campaign. 
I used to do it, but now I want to try it again and hopefully with this edition. 

Edit: I try to PM you about your stories, but it seem you blocked me. 




Odd, I was seeing your posts but you WERE on my blocked list.

Sorted now, feel free to PM away!

Some friends and I have worked on writing a novel based on one of my D&D campaigns, it's been using the same setting for four editions now and there are layers upon layers of story there.

That setting is a big part of why I am so keen on optional material in Next, things as simple as Elves and Gnomes are banned PC races and Dwarves are extinct.  So I want options in my races AND built in permission to bar the things I will be barring anyway. 

Since 1995 or so I have more or less been the eternal DM. Back in the 90's we decided to do something that was kind of stupid even by out standards. We thought we would try a high level game with the kid gloves pulled off. The TSR era handbooks of the time had advice on who to do things like a fighther, thief, wizard type game. We picked a wizard each starting at level 19 as we almost never got that high. AD&D characters kind fof ran into massive xp tables for the higher levels and advancement was slow.


Our archmage party was run by the players sharing the DM role. Sometimes we had no DM and ran it by consensus among the players. Since we were all deliberately trying to be munchkins and breaking the game we had a no holds barred approach. For the most part this meant we could all pick our spells and magic items from the Encyclopedia Magica and spells from the Priest and Wizard spell compendiums. From memory there was some sort of limit as to what we could actually pick. The other players all went for the nastiest combat spells they could fins. My spell of choice was Stasis Clone a level 9 clone spell variant Manshoon uses in the Realms to not die. 25 years of Dragon and obscure books worth of magic items and spells. Wish was also one of my picks.


Between the group we also had a large selection of the TSR campaign settings. In the anything goes mentality lets break this game and have some fun we let almost everything in. Between us we had the boxed sets for Birthright, Darksun, Dragonlance, FR, Mystra, Planescape, Ravenloft, Red Steel, Spelljammer etc. We had most of them anyway. My personal abuse rule of choice were the magical potions as fruit from Darksun and similar rules. While the other players loaded themselves up with combat related magic items I choose a suitable large selection of potions of longevity in fruit form.


Since the game was a broken game of archmage skulduggery we all done what any mad wizard would do. We each created a lair. I needed somewhere safe to store my magical fruit trees as I wanted to have a farm supplying potions of longevity for wish spell abuse. The others created towers, a dungeon complex, a magical Inn and a downed Spelljammer ship as lair. My lair oh doom was a prismatic sphere made permanent on the elemental plane of fire. Another wish spell created a bubble inside it with no elemental matter. 4 Mordenkainens magnificent mansion spells where created and 3 of them had permanent prismatic walls put on the other aide of them for any unwelcome visitors. The mansions were made permanent via wish spells. The 4th was equipped as a nice comfy inn for visitors. A modified spell engine spell was put in the lobby to suck up any magic spells cast with a few golems as well. The other 3 mansions were turned into magical hot houses and my personal lab for mad bwa ha ha wizardo experiments. One generally needed a wizard, ranger or druid to tend you magical fruit trees. A few simulacrum spells took care of that problem. A personal extra dimensional army was created which meant several hundred level 6-10 wizard simulacrums IIRC.


Anyway all of these potions were used to fuel unlimited wish spells and stasis clone spells were used to keep one alive. We did not do that much adventuring as such as we were all to busy plotting off how to kill one another in various amusing ways. The more or the top and creative ways of doing it were rewarded. Ambushed and spell duels involving initiative rolls were just so uncreative. My wizards 1st death involved a flunked saving throw vs a troll shamans hold person spell and the other PCs though it would be humorous to teleport off. Level 19 wizard becomes troll food and stasis clone kicks in.


Sooner or later the other players kind of figure out that in effect I can cast unlimited wish spells. They try the frontal assault and actually manage to deal with the spell engine and golems trick. It takes them a moment to to figure out where the mansions are. One of the other archmages promptly dies after walking through the door into a prismatic wall and they manage to get through that. It turns out that 5 archmages cannot deal with over a hundred simulacrums battling it out in a reverse gravity prismatic wall minefield.


The most creative PC on PC death involved the Inn lair which was more or less just an inn. The innn owner invited a local tribe of orcs to come by for free ale. The orcs thought it was a good idea because option B was 6 archmages using cloudkill spells on their lair. Anyway it was rather messy affair as orcs do. His goal however was to have a full latrine. I'm not sure what the most humiliating death in D&D is but getting hit in the butt via a glyph of warding power word liquefy spell as you do your business is probably one of them. Once you get turned into water while doing your business on the porcelain throne and landing in orc bodily fluids is probably right up there though.


We were young, stupid and went out of our way to break the game no sane DM who was sober and capable of speech would allow via unlimited access to splats and campaign setting material. In a way it was balanced though as we were all wizards and it was like playing Type 1/Vintage magic the gathering with the power 9 in play. Everyone has it so it is fair. Overall it was broken as hell, entertaining and it kept us amused for a few afternoons as it was a disposable campaign of madness. The moral of the story is do not let any and all splats and campaign setting material into the game and be very careful with spell compendium type books.


Screams of pain from the balance brigade in 3,2,1.......


 I wonder if they will make a complete book of munchkins for D&DN. Since it is suppose to be inclusive an support all playstyles. On very rare occasions throwing the rulebook and sanity out the window can be fun.




I did something similar in the ol' AD&D days too.
But I was the fixed DM and had three players start level 15 characters.

Oh, and the one rule was: they all had to be evil.

We played for several sessions, the players got to around level 17-18, and it was fun like hell.
They were all about raising armies, conquering land, and reserching powerful spells and lost artifacts.
As a DM I never really "guided" the game much, but allowed them to set their own goals and improvised on what they were trying to accomplish.

After that we resumed more "normal" games in the same setting, but I kept their high-level characters as NPCs, kinda like powerful villains for the setting, and all the things they did while playing the high-level dudes that deeply affected the setting became part of the story.

It was really cool, and added a lot of fun stuff to the setting, because they really put an effort into making awesome backgrounds and goals for their high-level characters.
To this day I still use those NPCs whenever I run a game in that setting, even if only as part of the world's history and folklore when I play in other eras of the world, past that time.


In the end, the high-level Necromancer player had made so much damage to the land (in a good sense, storywise, not like "breaking" the game) with his abuse of wicked magic that inadvertently he ended up bringing Ravenloft's mists into the world through a conjunction.

Later, on our regular game of mid-level characters, the players managed to undo the damage and expel the mists before it engulfed part of the realms entirelly... but only after a loooooong campaign did they finally achieve that.
We had something similar in 2e but with a different structure: the party (when we stopped playing due to RL issues) was made of:


1) Drow fighter17/cleric of Horus-Re 26 guy with psionic wild talents

2) Human wizard (necromancer) 34th level (turned into a demi-lich)

3) Half-gold dragon/half-human  fighter 20/psion 19


We allowed any bloody supplement we could put our hands on (including Combat and Tactics, Skills and Powers, High level Campaign, Dragon Kings of Athas, Way of the Will, you name it).    

We rotated as DM's and enjoyed throwing whatever we could at this trio. Most monsters died in the first round. I remember a huge fight between these 3 guys, a group of illithid vampires, a slew of drow thralls and some intellect devourers for garnish. It was a carnage ending in two rounds.

It was a lot of fun, but it's something you can do only if everybody agrees and knows the game enough to be up to speed. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/23.jpg)

Never got to use the Dragonkings stuff and I do own that book and the Darksun boxed set and PDF bought years ago on RPGnow.com........

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

THe spells do not scale like the classics. And yeah the number porn was out of whack the last 2 editions...

So, if modern D&D characters get some higher bonuses as they level, that's "numbers porn," but you miss the way spells scaled in classic D&D, which was 1d6/level?   

...maybe it's a difference in numbers orientation...?

 

 

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