Deadly Strike & Weapon Mastery

Level 5: Deadly Strike
...Benefit: Once per turn, when you roll damage for an attack, you can roll the weapon's damage twice and add the rolls together...

Weapon Mastery
...Benefit: When you attack with a weapon and roll its damage dice, roll an extra die of the same type, drop the lowest roll, and then add up the damage...

It appears this could be read 2 different ways and as such needs clarification.

1st possible interpretation: You the weapon's damage twice and on each roll you roll an extra die of the same type, drop the lowest roll each time, and then add up the damage. (i.e. you roll 4 of the weapon damage dice and drop the lowest of each pair of 2 dice)

2nd possible interpretation: You roll 2 of the weapon damage die for Deadly Strike and add an additional of the same type to the roll for Weapon Mastery, drop the lowest, and then add up the damage. (i.e. you roll 3 of the weapon damage dice and drop the lowest)

I'm running under the assumption that the 2nd interpretation is what was intended but the current RAW definitely leave room for debate.

I only read it the second way.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
How about the cases of TWF and multiple attacks?
Let's say you Two-Weapon Attack and Hit with both sides of an Urgrosh (1d10 slashing/1d4 piercing); do you get to roll an extra of both die types and take the better of each?

How about the Fighters Whirlwind Attack at 20th Level?... you make a separate melee attack against up to 5 targets. It excludes Deadly Strike but not Weapon Mastery.
Do you get to roll an extra of the damage die type for hits against each target?
Also, do you roll damage for each hit target or roll damage once and apply it to each hit target?

Someone posed the same question as my original post in: D&D Next General Discussion > D&D Next Q&A Ask a simple question, Get a simple answer > Q532. Based on "Plaguescarred" the original thread posters A532 I would say that they interpreted it the 1st way. So since you interpret it the 2nd, he interpreted it the 1st, and I can see a case for either way; I definitely think further clarification is required.
I think you add one die to the total for each individual attack and then drop the lowest (2nd interpretation). It seems to me like you do get to use it on each attack you make (including TWF and multiattack, whirlwind attack, cleave, volley).

The wording is terrible.

And for whirlwind, precedent is that you always roll damage separately for each target with any weapon attack, you only use a single damage roll for AOE spells. If it's their intention to change that, it needs to be worded better.


And for whirlwind, precedent is that you always roll damage separately for each target with any weapon attack, you only use a single damage roll for AOE spells.



Thank you

Hey there,

This isn't a playtest session report, so I'll be moving it along to Playtest Packet Discussion 

Thanks!

Monica


Edit: Somehow my link got put in the wrong place!
Weapon Mastery should only affect the original Weapon Damage

Deadly Strike is not original Weapon Damage

Weapon Mastery would affect every Whirlwind Damage

Weapon Mastery would affect every TWF attack but
Deadly Strike TWF only affects a single Weapon Dice, so either the d10 or the d4 in the case of the Urgosh
I read it as clearly the second option (roll one extra die, no matter how many [W]s you roll). But it would apply to each individual attack you make for TWF or whirlwind, etc.
I originally read it as the 2nd, and I still think that was what was intended. However, after a second reading, I can totally see the 1st interpretation. Hopefully they will correct this in the next packet, like they did Rituals. Until then, it's going to vary from game to game.
The way it is worded sounds to me like you roll all of the damage dice available, plus one extra, then drop the lowest, whether the lowest was the original die or a bonus die from deadly strike. That's the only way I'm seeing it.

I think its the 1st interpretation by strict RAW but i doubt its the intended result. Weapon Mastery let you roll an extra [W] die whenever you roll one, drop the lowest  and add up the damage. Therefore, every [W] die with Deadly Strike should get an extra one as written. Same thing for Critical Hit.

That said, it's still unclear how the additional dice work. To demonstrate, assume a level 20 fighter with 10 strength and no other relevant feats wielding a greatsword (1d12) and not using any expertise dice. Should his damage be [(2d12 drop lowest) five times], which gives an average of ~42, or [(10d12 drop lowest 5d12) once], which gives an average of ~46?
I dont see how it can be anything but #2:
 Dice is plural
 Die is singular.
 Read it again with that in mind.
Ha i didnt think about that distinction. Make sense.
Level 5: Deadly Strike
...Benefit: Once per turn, when you roll damage for an attack, you can roll the weapon's damage twice and add the rolls together...

Weapon Mastery
...Benefit: When you attack with a weapon and roll its damage dice, roll an extra die of the same type, drop the lowest roll, and then add up the damage...


I only read one interpretation.

Deadly strike: When you roll damage (that is, as you begin rolling damage), roll weapon's damage dice twice, add them together. That becomes the new damage dice.
Weapon mastery: When you roll its damage dice (that is, while rolling damage), roll an extra die of the same type, drop lowest roll. That becomes the new damage dice.

Essentially, roll 3 and drop 1.

The other interpretation requires doing the "roll an extra die, drop lowest roll" step twice, which is counter to the language. "Die" is singular.

Clarification suggestion: Change Weapon Mastery to "After you roll all your weapon's damage dice, ..."

I actually think weapon mastery is perfectly clear. They need to change deadly strike to say

"Once per turn, when  you  attack  with  a  weapon  and roll  its  damage  dice,  roll  an  extra  die  of  the  same type and  then  add  up  the damage. At higher levels, you can add even more extra dice: two dice at level 10, three dice at level 15, and four dice at level 20."

The wording of deadly strike is a little bit unclear but it makes sense that it should be additive and not multiplicative.

I actually think weapon mastery is perfectly clear. They need to change deadly strike to say

"Once per turn, when  you  attack  with  a  weapon  and roll  its  damage  dice,  roll  an  extra  die  of  the  same type and  then  add  up  the damage. At higher levels, you can add even more extra dice: two dice at level 10, three dice at level 15, and four dice at level 20."

The wording of deadly strike is a little bit unclear but it makes sense that it should be additive and not multiplicative.


I agree with this assessment. I understand the part about the singular/plural difference between dice and die; However, Deadly Strike currently reads that you roll the damage TWICE and then add the rolls together... This specifice wording of rolling twice is, to me, where the possible confusion in interpretation can come into play when considering, "When you attack with a weapon AND ROLL ITS DAMAGE DICE, ROLL AN EXTRA DIE...".

Since you are rolling damage TWICE due to Deadly Strike and Weapon Mastery says that when you roll damage dice you roll an extra of the same type you drop the lowest roll... this seems like bad wording to me.

I completely agree that it was probably intended to be the second interpretation but I do believe that the way the wording is right now is bad. I do very firmly believe it lends to the argument that since you are rolling damage TWICE with deadly strike and since you roll and extra die when you roll damage for a weapon from Weapon Mastery the argument can be made for the first interpretation 
Plaguescarred? It is fantastic to see you're still in the community!
I was actually googling this exact issue after encountering it today.
I feel like the plaintext description is pretty clear but I can see where people might find this a bit too powerful when most of the feats seem underwhelming otherwise.
 Has there been any official reply on this?
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