A feat question for a poor team killing wizard

14 posts / 0 new
Last post

Hello everyone,


Quick question, I'm running a mage in my current campaign and a bit of an illusionist/aoe shooting guy.  As much as I can try to coordinate moves to avoid teammates, sometimes they just get so .. "mucked in" I feel its hard to use my moves to assit, as I dont want to consistantly hurt my own team.  I seem to recall that there was SOME feat that was like "Choose X squares IN your blast effect to not happen" or somthing in that spirit.

If that dosent exist or I need to explain further, please let me know!  Thanks!

Not sure if this helps or not, but in Pathfinder clerics have a "channel energy" ability that affects all targets within a radius.  That means that if a cleric uses a channel positive energy charge he heals everyone and everything (living) within the radius of the effect.  However there is a feat called "selective target channel energy," where the cleric can choose whether to target allies or enemies.

I know that this type of feat does not exist in 3.5e but maybe it does in 4e.  Worst case, talk to your DM about house ruling/creating a new feat that is more selective targeting of AOE spells.  To this end, I would suggest that the feat be spell specific; if it is universal it would be overpowered.

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Are you really "entitled to your opinion"?
RedSiegfried wrote:
The cool thing is, you don't even NEED a reason to say yes.  Just stop looking for a reason to say no.
Spell Accuracy is one, but that's an epic tier feat.  It allows you to omit a number of squares equal to your Wisdom from your close or area Wizard powers.  Not sure if there's a lower tier feat.

War Wizardry will help by giving you a penalty to hit your allies and deals only half damage to them.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

SPELL ACCURACY!  Thanks a ton.. Well Im sure our friendly knight can suffer till level 21 haha.  Thanks guys
Let me second the recommendation for the War Wizardry feat - it's 11th level, so you can retrain it to Spell Accuracy when you get to epic.

You can also look for armor or magic items for your front-liners that give them resistances to the types of damage or save bonuses to the types of debuffs that you like to hand out.

If you're still in heroic tier, look for spells that only affect enemies in the area of effect - at-wills like Winged Horde or Beguiling Strands, for example.

Honestly, though, you're playing a wizard - friendly fire is an inevitable part of your job, and your teammates ought to be working with you to mitigate the negative effects.  Another feat I'd recommend, by the way, is Coordinated Explosion - it makes friendly fire work for you, not against you.  It works especially well when combined with an AoE that doesn't affect allies.
If you are Eladrin, there is a utility power that you can take which allows you to teleport someone from an AOE to safety...perhaps that would work. But yea, War Wizardry is by far your better option.
One thing that is also important to remember is that you are playing in 3D.  That can save some people more often than you think.  Consider this situation that happened last night:


E11EEEE
E11FBEE
E2233EE
E2233WE
EEEEEEE

E= Empty Space
F = Fighter
B = Barbarian
W = Warlord
1,2,3= 3 Large sized skeletons.

In the situation the Warlord wanted to dragonsbreath all of the skeletons, but didn't want to hit allies with it.  This was easily accomplished.  All the Warlord has to do, is choose a sqaure up and infront of him as his blast 3 (The square directly between F and W occupied by 3).  Then the blast goes out from there as a 3x3x3 block firing up.  It hits 1, 2 and 3 but doesn't hit F or B.  Since it is firing above out heads.

Since a lot of paragon is fighting large sized creatures you can take advantage of this fairly frequently.

Allies standing in the melee and you have an area burst 1?  If the enemies are all large, just originate the blast high enough up (for a AB1 that means 3 squares up is the origin) so it hits the heads of your enemies and none of your allies.
 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
If your DM allows fortune cards there is at least one that lets you not target 1 square. And another that gives bounus damage if you are hitting an allie.
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
This is less a feat problem, and more of a team problem. I've seen it in LFR and Encounters, though less frequently in home games.

You need to sit down with the other players and talk about your tactics and how you can continue to be expected to contribute if the other players are going to place themselves in your AOEs.

Do they need to hold actions until you can drop your control bombs? Are there feats for your front line that will let them shrug off the effects and damage of your powers? How do you prioritize your targets -- is there someone you should be pointing your wand at, instead of the creature that your front line has engaged? Is there a certain degree to which your front line can tolerate damage or effects (ie, a player willing to suck it up and take one for the team as he gets caught in your AoE)?

The problem is nastier at low levels where you have fewer power selections. My personal observations from the Encounter program seemed to fall along the lines of blaster-casters never being able to use something like Burning Hands, because no one was willing to either wait or take damage... Or, with enchanters (especially the orb ones who had extra push on some of their powers) who got bitched out when they pushed the enemies clear of melee/AoO/reach range.

YMMV, but this always seems to me like it boils down to a party strategy and synergy problem, where the players at the table don't act like a team, but just four guys who like to kill monsters on the same map. Talk with your people and see if you can nail down some synergies and strategies to make your AoEs more effective, which will make a front line's job easier.

58286228 wrote:
As a DM, I find it easier to just punish the players no matter what they pick, as I assume they will pick stuff that is broken. I mean, fight after fight they kill all the monsters without getting killed themselves! What sort of a game is this, anyway?

 

An insightful observation about the nature of 4e, and why it hasn't succeeded as well as other editions. (from the DDN General Discussions, 2014-05-07)

Rundell wrote:

   

Emerikol wrote:

       

Foxface wrote:

        4e was the "modern" D&D, right?  The one that had design notes that drew from more modern games, and generally appealed to those who preferred the design priorities of modern games.  I'm only speculating, but I'd hazard a guess that those same 4e players are the ones running the wide gamut of other games at Origins.

       
        D&D 4e players are pretty much by definition the players who didn't mind, and often embraced, D&D being "different".  That willingness to embrace the different might also mean they are less attached to 4e itself, and are willing to go elsewhere.

    This is a brilliant insight.  I was thinking along those lines myself.  

 

    There are so many tiny indie games that if you added them all together they would definitely rival Pathfinder.   If there were a dominant game for those people it would do better but there is no dominant game.  Until 4e, the indie people were ignored by the makers of D&D.

 

Yep. 4E was embraced by the 'system matters' crowd who love analyzing and innovating systems. That crowd had turned its back on D&D as a clunky anachronism. But with 4E, their design values were embraced and validated. 4E was D&D for system-wonks. And with support for 4E pulled, the system-wonks have moved on to other systems. The tropes and traditions of D&D never had much appeal for them anyway. Now there are other systems to learn and study. It's like boardgamegeeks - always a new system on the horizon. Why play an ancient games that's seven years old?

 

Of course, not all people who play and enjoy 4E fit that mould. I'm running a 4E campaign right now, and my long-time D&D players are enjoying it fine. But with the system-wonks decamping, the 4E players-base lost the wind in its sails.

One thing that is also important to remember is that you are playing in 3D.  That can save some people more often than you think.  Consider this situation that happened last night:
 


Just to emphasise, airbursting and airblasting is one of the msot important tricks for unfriendly area-attackers are paragon-plus.  Large things can easily be caught by blasts and bursts whilst missing your friends, as long as you can aim over the heads of your friends.  Cieling heights start to become a problem for bigger area bursts, but that's life.

And yeah, War Wizardry andf Nusenmee's Atonement (the latter's great for blasters, but control wizards less so, as the damage is the least important part of your attacks...)
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

Hello everyone,


Quick question, I'm running a mage in my current campaign and a bit of an illusionist/aoe shooting guy.  As much as I can try to coordinate moves to avoid teammates, sometimes they just get so .. "mucked in" I feel its hard to use my moves to assit, as I dont want to consistantly hurt my own team.  I seem to recall that there was SOME feat that was like "Choose X squares IN your blast effect to not happen" or somthing in that spirit.

If that dosent exist or I need to explain further, please let me know!  Thanks!


As others have pointed out, coordination is key. You'd think after the first few times they'd be the ones looking for a solution. They're the ones getting hit Laughing
Or maybe there's some other possible compromise. Not all wizard powers are area powers.

Or maybe the DM can offer more encounters that play to the wizard's strengths, with groups of artillery and minions, and terrain that keeps the frontliner's back.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy

  There are also a number of close/area wizard powers that are ally-safe, and it might be worth retraining to pick up a few of those. (They're often the most tactically useful when everyone's tangled together, too.)
Yeah you probably dont want to wait till epic.

"Nusemnee's Atonement" is your friend. Use it when you are about to hit an ally, the attack instead hits YOU and you gain resistance to that damage. You may do this even if you are dominated. Combine this feat with coordinated explosion and war wizardry. Also look into feats and powers that say "when you get hit if X damage time, you may do Y in response", so you may set up combo powers. 

You might also invest in a resistance item for the defender you have been abusing. Resist "X" is a lifesaver.