Charge Should Not Be A Feat

One of D&D's central ideas is that your character should be able to attempt anything a normal person can do in real life, and such needless feat requirements trample this idea.

I see WotC going down a ruinous path in the most recent packet (321), making just about every combat action require a feat to use (as opposed to being doable by anyone), even if literally any able-bodied person can do it untrained in real life. They made this mistake in 3.5, and it only hindered melee and contributed to the "one-trick pony" problem by needlessly and irrationally restricting melee characters' options in combat. It also shoehorns melee into repeating a bland, unfun, and video-gamey "autoattack" routine.


IRL, anyone can sprint up to someone and hit them, while bringing the force of the charge into the blow. This does not require training, which is why Charge should not be a feat. It should be a standard combat maneuver available to all characters (no, not just Fighters, ALL characters). It should not require character-building resources to attempt to do this.

IRL, anyone can attempt to pick someone's pocket, but it requires a feat in game. I, completely untrained, could walk right out of my house and try to pickpocket someone. I do not need special training to attempt this. Pick Pocket should not be a feat because it does not require such extensive training. It should be a skill, like it was in 3.5.

IRL, anyone can attempt to read lips, even if they do so incompletely or poorly, but you can still succeed without training. Read Lips should be rolled up into a skill like Spot or Sense Motive, or simply adjudicated as a Wisdom check. If there was to be a feat for this, it should simply give a bonus or Advantage, or make allow those who take it to auto-succeed checks made to read lips. But it should still be possible for an untrained character to attempt this.

IRL, even a child can shove someone while hitting them. Thus certainly does not require special training or expertise, and thus Shove Away shouldn't require a feat. It should be a combat maneuver available to anyone.

IRL, anyone can attempt to find and follow tracks. You should not need a feat to track. Perhaps they could make Track into a Wisdom skill, and have the feat simply allow a character to automatically succeed, or have Advantage when doing it.

IRL, anyone can Trip. Even children with no martial background or combat experience can do it intuitively, and it certainly doesn't require special training. Trip should absolutely be a combat maneuver, and not a feat. If there was a feat for it, perhaps it could give advantage or something.


And the list goes on

Post if you agree; we need to show WotC their mistake while they can still fix it.
Your list is not just anyone can do it

Is can you do it in combat?

Can you do it within milliseconds in a proper form, that doesn't end with you getting stabbed. Anyone can trip someone by sticking their feet out and hoping the guy falls. BUT can you trip someone who is in a proper combat stance while trying to stab you and while his buddies are trying to stab you too
I tend to think that a lot of "Feats" should be a skill or simplly stated as something anyone can (potentially) do in combat. The point made about "can you trip someone who is in a proper combat stance while trying to stab you and while his buddies are trying to stab you too" is a matter for the DM to decide. In some situations it may take a natural 20 roll to accomplish but in other cases anything except a natural 1 might succeed. DON"T make something a Feat just because (for example) it is something that very few people can do well in combat. If you use this reasoning, using a sword might end up being a Feat.
DON"T make something a Feat just because (for example) it is something that very few people can do well in combat. If you use this reasoning, using a sword might end up being a Feat.


I hope it does become a Feat

We already have 'Using a Polearm' and 'Using your Fists' as Feats, I hope 'Usng Swords' and Using Axes' becomes feats too
Feats should be truely special things that require specialized training. Basic use of a polearm can be done in a short period of time (a few days in many cases) and after that lots and lots of drilling to gain experience in the use of the weapon. Swiss pikemen became the standard for elite use of polearms in the middleages. NOBODY was better. This was accomplished through good solid training plus lots of work on the practice fields.
We already have 'Using a Polearm' and 'Using your Fists' as Feats, I hope 'Usng Swords' and Using Axes' becomes feats too


Well to be fair, Pole-arm Training also grants you Advantage when making Attacks of Opportunity, so now you have a much better chance of hurting something fleeing in your much LARGER Threat Radius.
Add Combat Reflexes and you become a WHIRLWIND OF PAIN!!!
Your list is not just anyone can do it

Is can you do it in combat?

Can you do it within milliseconds in a proper form, that doesn't end with you getting stabbed. Anyone can trip someone by sticking their feet out and hoping the guy falls. BUT can you trip someone who is in a proper combat stance while trying to stab you and while his buddies are trying to stab you too



It's not about how good you are at it, or whether you can do it reliably or well. It's about the fact WotC won't even let you try these extremely basic maneuvers without spending an incredibly scarce character resource. 


And yes, it is possible to do those things in a fight, without training. Not saying you'll be very good at it, but that's not the point. You can still attempt them with a chance of success (even if it's not a very good chance), which should be represented in the rules with an ability contest or similar mechanic.
One of D&D's central ideas is that your character should be able to attempt anything a normal person can do in real life, and such needless feat requirements trample this idea.

Agree there are a few strange limits now on actions, ones that don't feel very natural. 

The skill vs. task vs. feat vs. action language and categorization needs cleanup.
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One solution could be letting anyone attempt to charge, trip, disarm, etc., but making them do so with disadvantage unless they have the appropriate feat.

Seems like it could work.

I agree that some of the feats should be able to be used as actions anyone can do. Examples would be bull rush, charge, shove away and maybe even lunge. I believe feats should represent that you are better than the average joe. Climb sheer surface is a good example of this. Polearm training is just that. Rogues do not start with proficiency in polearms. This feat gives it to them plus an extra benefit (and for fighters who already proficient at them). My guess is that polearm training is just the first of many such feats; just like there is an expertise feat for every weapon in 4e.
One solution could be letting anyone attempt to charge, trip, disarm, etc., but making them do so with disadvantage unless they have the appropriate feat.

Seems like it could work.



Nobody would do them then, but you gave me an idea. How about anyone can attempt these checks as an action (in favor of defender because they can oppose with either STR or DEX in most cases), but if you take the feat, you get advantage on the contest?
Nobody would do them then, but you gave me an idea. How about anyone can attempt these checks as an action (in favor of defender because they can oppose with either STR or DEX in most cases), but if you take the feat, you get advantage on the contest?



Untrained characters (i.e., who don't possess the necessary feat) would still try the various maneuvers occassionally (when an especially opportune moment arose), it would just be more infrequent, and risky, than somebody who was trained at it (who would be using that technique much more often). It is much more complicated/difficult to disarm/trip someone than it is to just hit them with a stick/sword. So, I don't think untrained people having disadvantage on certain checks would be too onerous. It would be a bit like 3.5, where you could attempt the various extracurricular activities, but if you didn't have the right feat you would suffer an attack of opportunity.

But your version could work too, it just depends on how often you want characters tripping, pushing, disarming, etc. instead of stabbing, slicing or bludgeoning...


"Untrained" characters can still charge, trip, disarm, etc.  They just don't get to attack while doing so (or double-move, in the case of charge).  See my other thread for a more detailed explanation: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
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