what if my party is against my class?

27 posts / 0 new
Last post
sadly, my party belives i am weak in comparsoin to a fighter due to the fact that i am a palidain. i feel that i should change my class to fighter (seing as we do not have have one) should I?
If you feel you should change, then you should change. It's generally a good idea to be receptive to being what the party needs, but ultimately it is your decision. 

No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
DMs: Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Prep Tips | Spoilers Don't Spoil Anything | No Myth Roleplaying
Players: 11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer | You Are Not Your Character     Hilarious D&D Actual Play Podcast: Crit Juice!

FREE CONTENT: Encounters With Alternate Goals | Full-Contact Futbol  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs | Re-Imagining Phandelver | Three Pillars of Immersion | Seahorse Run

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

First off, is this 3.x or 4E?

If it's 3.x, a Fighter has more feats and fewer skill options (with a lack in skill points);  the Paladin gets a small healing ability, spellcasting, a mount, bonuses to saves, etc.

If it's 4E, I can't really judge.   
Before anything else, are you having fun with your character?  And is you playing your character preventing the rest of the group from having fun?  As long as everyone is having fun, you do not need to feel pressured to changed your character, because having fun is the point.

If you're not having fun, why?  Do you feel you're not pulling your own weight?  Are you bored with the character?  If your character is hindering the fun of the group, why?  Is it only because your paladin lacks power, or are there other reasons.

That said...

Which edition are you playing?  And what kind of build do you have?

Depending on the edition, your party may have a point.  In 3e, Paladin were 'meh' at best and were relatively easy to mess up.  Granted, 3e Fighters were 'meh' as well.  But a bit of optimization can bring both classes up a couple rungs on the ladder.

If you're playing 4e, both the Fighter and Paladin fill a similar niche are great at what they do, but they do it different.  So bring up your Paladin's power may simply be a matter of playing more to the class's strengths.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
Before anything else, are you having fun with your character?  And is you playing your character preventing the rest of the group from having fun?  As long as everyone is having fun, you do not need to feel pressured to changed your character, because having fun is the point.

If you're not having fun, why?  Do you feel you're not pulling your own weight?  Are you bored with the character?  If your character is hindering the fun of the group, why?  Is it only because your paladin lacks power, or are there other reasons.

That said...

Which edition are you playing?  And what kind of build do you have?

Depending on the edition, your party may have a point.  In 3e, Paladin were 'meh' at best and were relatively easy to mess up.  Granted, 3e Fighters were 'meh' as well.  But a bit of optimization can bring both classes up a couple rungs on the ladder.

If you're playing 4e, both the Fighter and Paladin fill a similar niche are great at what they do, but they do it different.  So bring up your Paladin's power may simply be a matter of playing more to the class's strengths.

I'm having fun. also im pretty sure they are to, and yes i love my hero. 4e. its a party of five (rogue, wizard, cleric, palidain, and ranger) their just saying that my class i not a fighter so i'm wrong 
In that case, I wouldn't worry much about it. 

In 4e, Fighters arguably pull a bit ahead of other defenders in terms of overall effectiveness, however the differences certainly are not as starkly binary as "Fighter Good - Paladin Bad".  Paladins are no slouches in the defending department and have quite a few good buffing, healing, and status-removing options, and built-in radiant support.  Options that fighters don't have out of the box.  As I mentioned before, Paladins defend differently from Fighters, and have different strengths. 

If you still want to step up your game, you could try scanning one of several paladin handbooks, like this one.  But that would be optional, not necessary.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
My personal experience, give it some time. Paladins take a little longer to come into their own in 4e, but they are awesome given a few levels. Your mark is boss, (depending on what build you are going with) you have access to some aweome powers the other members of your party can take advantage of, and you are a backup healer. All great traits!
Paladins can be stellar defenders, but as was said the higher the level of the party, the relatively more effective the paladin is. Only paladins and swordmages can effectively defend at epic.

What level is your party? 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Paladins can have some great stuff out of the gate, especially if you are a half-orc in heroic.  They get access to things that make their mark violation very strong and they have self-healing and respectable defenses.  Not to mention a few ways to Sanction a whole group of people.

I actually play a paragon Paladin|Fighter that I really love to defend with and have never had any complaints about his defending ability. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Everyone has givin you great advice; maybe just put some thought into Multi-Classing into a Fighter; so you can pick up some more sticky feats.
I personaly love the Paly. but as stated several times the first few levels are pretty dry with one.
But boy once you start leveling up and getting some better powers you can pull off some wicked combos.

Who dosn't like walking up to the big bad guy, hitting him, marking him and then for the hell of it healing your wizard friend all in one turn.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/1.jpg)

Paladin is fine.  Tell them it isn't your job to be the punching bag for the party.  Because there is no way you can take the focus of an entire monster group anyways.  Defenders can help grabbing an enemy, but they aren't supposed to be in front of everything.  That would be rediculous.
Paladin is fine.  Tell them it isn't your job to be the punching bag for the party.  Because there is no way you can take the focus of an entire monster group anyways.  Defenders can help grabbing an enemy, but they aren't supposed to be in front of everything.  That would be rediculous.



My champion does exactly that.  Forces all (or most) of team monster to pay attention to him.  A paladin has a lot of mass marking powers, so it is perfectly possible for you to be able to mark the room. They also have enough self-heal and survivability to keep everything on them without wasting party resources.

In short, your party is being silly.  If you are concerned about your paladin's power level, send me a PM with your paladin's character sheet and I'll give it a look through.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
My next question is:  What do you consider a defender to do?  Are you looking for someone to stand in front of blows and keep them off your team or are you looking for someone that can help with recovery if something should happen?  It may be a small differentiation, but it can change your power/feat choices...
OP,
make sure you are using the updated rules on Divine Challenge, it makes it a bit better.  Also, I strongly advise selecting powers that mark enemies, or better yet, impose your divine sanction (from Divine Power).

Fighters are one of the stickiest defenders, especially at heroic tier, but paladins can be really excellent.  Their ability to mark at a distance is a huge advantage over the fighter. 
Play the character you enjoy.  If they want a fighter in the group tell them to play one.
As a DM, I try to encourage my players to play what they enjoy. I despise telling my players how to play.

Unless your build is so weak as to cause huge issues I would never tell you to change.  And even then, I would find a way to make your Palladin better as many of the suggestions here in this thread have done.

As a DM, I can create encounters with all members of the party in mind and make it fun for all.  Even if your marks are weak, I can still have a monster focus on the defender (you).  I can still create situations that make being both a defender and a striker fun even if a player or two is not fully optimized.

As a player I really hate telling others how to play.  I don't like it when they tell me how to play.  Playing my own character is enough work for me let alone worrying about someone else.  If a player in my party is weak, I take the challenge and step up my play.  If the player with the weak character wants help in becoming more optimized, I will help him.

Frankly, I care far more about how you role play.  That's what makes it fun.
Before anything else, are you having fun with your character?  And is you playing your character preventing the rest of the group from having fun?  As long as everyone is having fun, you do not need to feel pressured to changed your character, because having fun is the point.

If you're not having fun, why?  Do you feel you're not pulling your own weight?  Are you bored with the character?  If your character is hindering the fun of the group, why?  Is it only because your paladin lacks power, or are there other reasons.

That said...

Which edition are you playing?  And what kind of build do you have?

Depending on the edition, your party may have a point.  In 3e, Paladin were 'meh' at best and were relatively easy to mess up.  Granted, 3e Fighters were 'meh' as well.  But a bit of optimization can bring both classes up a couple rungs on the ladder.

If you're playing 4e, both the Fighter and Paladin fill a similar niche are great at what they do, but they do it different.  So bring up your Paladin's power may simply be a matter of playing more to the class's strengths.

I'm having fun. also im pretty sure they are to, and yes i love my hero. 4e. its a party of five (rogue, wizard, cleric, palidain, and ranger) their just saying that my class i not a fighter so i'm wrong 



They're wrong.
I concur.  They're wrong, and bordering on being jerks.
hey, when is the lat time an opinion made you chang someting you feel is right. fighters may be tougher but isant knowledge power as well?

the antient fight, brains or brawn. palidins try both so hes not easily defeated.but dont under estimate any class, because it depends not on the

tools. but how we use them.

 

Troll king

There might be some issues if you're playing PHB-only because several paladin styles didn't really work until Divine Power added appropriate powers/options for them.

Otherwise, asking why the rest of the group feels that the paladin is too weak would make it easier to deal with the situation. Just "being a paladin" isn't enough (and if that's the only reason they have, their reasoning is the too-weak element here).
the onix plate mail driped with the power of its diety as it asorbed the reckless blow of its opponent.

the palidin seeing the opening smashes both hands together,  explodes with light , and .......uses Bahamuts uppercut (holy strike)

see the writer decides who is the strongest, with descriptive words.....the fighter needs weapons to sound this cool. 

Troll king

I would discuss with your DM about including more ways for your Paladin to participate and increase his value to the group. I dont know your DM, but i personally keep an open door policy when it comes to game content. If one of my players ever feels left out, i am more than willing to adjust for them.
I have to follow suit with the others.  The Paladin is a great defender and has everything working towards being awesome to play.  Mass marking powers, mark punishment that can be made to not only deal one of the best types of damage (radiant) but also can be dealt over and over so long as it keeps being violated, plate armor right out of the gate, etc..  there's a bunch of positives to the paladin.

If the Paladin is what you want to play, tell your group to knock it off and let you play what you want.  What they are telling you violates Wheaton's Law (google that if you want) and they should be made aware of it.  If you enjoy what you are playing, then that's all that matters.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

sadly, my party belives i am weak in comparsoin to a fighter due to the fact that i am a palidain. i feel that i should change my class to fighter (seing as we do not have have one) should I?

No.  

If your character is under-performing, you might visit CharOp and tweak it, though it's not usually hard to get a viable character out of 4e.  The Paladin is a solid defender, even the PH1 paladin (just more of a single-target 'peel' defender than a 'sticky' defender).  Add Divine Power and the Paladin is just plain awesome.





 

 

Oops, looks like this request tried to create an infinite loop. We do not allow such things here. We are a professional website!

If you are using the character builder you should have the updated version of the paladin mark. Maybe head over to the compendium to see the new rules about it. If they are complaining about your damage output, they need to check themselves. Paladins and Fighters just don't do as much damage as Warlocks and Rangers.

Besides, it wouldn't be very Paladin, or Fighter like for you to just change class because the Ranger or the Wizard started to complain! A Paladin wouldn't back down from their convictions, and I encourage you to do the same. If everyone in the party is playing the character they want to play, in the style they want to play them, you should too. If everyone is having fun, then is there really a problem?

Somtimes players pick powers and feats that don't really work for them. If you have picked powers you feel dont work for you, retrain into more effective powers. If you need to retrain several powers at once, or if you need to redo your stats, talk to the DM. Its nothing to feel bad about, D&D is a complicated game.
the onix plate mail driped with the power of its diety as it asorbed the reckless blow of its opponent.

the palidin seeing the opening smashes both hands together,  explodes with light , and .......uses Bahamuts uppercut (holy strike)

see the writer decides who is the strongest, with descriptive words.....the fighter needs weapons to sound this cool. 

Bahamut's Uppercut! YES!
A rogue with a bowl of slop can be a controller. WIZARD PC: Can I substitute Celestial Roc Guano for my fireball spells? DM: Awesome. Yes. When in doubt, take action.... that's generally the best course. Even Sun Tsu knew that, and he didn't have internets.
sadly, my party belives i am weak in comparsoin to a fighter due to the fact that i am a palidain. i feel that i should change my class to fighter (seing as we do not have have one) should I?

They're not only wrong, they're terribly wrong. Pound for pound the Paladin has more options. Options are a strength. Look for some role-playing usefulness with the paladin as well...

NPC 1 to NPC 2: Oh look! Another adventuring party full of cocky fighters! Let's totally sell them the moldy gruel and be rid of it.

NPC 2 to NPC 1: Let's don't. That one has the same holy symbol as the demon-slayer that died saved our town. They might be friends of his. Let's share our fire and fresh venison and you can sing him that song you wrote about how the old demon slayer left his magic stuff in a nearby town because nobody was worthy to take up his holy blade. Never know, these guys might be worthy. There was enough gold in the demon horde to raise an army. Might be they'll remember your song, and us.
A rogue with a bowl of slop can be a controller. WIZARD PC: Can I substitute Celestial Roc Guano for my fireball spells? DM: Awesome. Yes. When in doubt, take action.... that's generally the best course. Even Sun Tsu knew that, and he didn't have internets.