Mind Grin mill

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Hello,
a quick question: If I mill a player with Mind Grin and that player's library gets empty in the process (but before s/he mills the required amount of lands) does s/he looses right away or does s/he has to "draw a card" to loose? 
players have to draw a card from an empty library to lose the game
just having an empty library is not a cause for game loss
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players have to draw a card from an empty library to lose the game
just having an empty library is not a cause for game loss




Thank you!

just having an empty library is not a cause for game loss

If it were, Leveler would be the worst creature ever.

"Proc" stands for "Programmed Random OCcurance". It does not even vaguely apply to anything Magic cards do. Don't use it.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman

just having an empty library is not a cause for game loss

If it were, Leveler would be the worst creature ever.



I don't think that's a good argument to make. It seems to mean two things:
1. They wouldn't print a card that makes you lose like that, so if you think there is such a card, your understanding of the rules is flawed.
2. Having a triggered ability that makes you lose the game is enough to make something the worst creature ever.

The problem with the first is that Johnny cards often do have completely crippling drawbacks. Indeed, Leveler won't make you lose the game as soon as its triggered ability resolves, but it willl make you lose before you ever get a chance to attack with it (unless you find a way to work around that).

The problem with the second is that one of the ways to avoid such drawbacks is Stifle, and that would work no matter what the triggered ability would try to do. That is, a creature that literally had "When [this] enters the battlefield, you lose the game" could be useful, depending on the environment, cost, P/T, and other abilities.

Now, I do see benefit in certain uses of the reasoning "If the games worked the way you think they do, this card wouldn't make any sense". I just don't think it quite works here.
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