Chimera: A Triple-Mark Threat

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Here's the basic idea behind the build:
Utilize 3 different Defender techniques - zone, mass, and lockdown
Do solid multi-attacking striker damage
Practical at all levels.

Feats are really obnoxiously tight at the moment. Trying to figure them out at the moment.


[sblock level 13]


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Chimera, level 13
Dragonborn, Fighter/Warden, Honorable Blade
Hybrid Warden Option: Hybrid Warden Fortitude
Hybrid Talent Option: Fighter Combat Talent
Fighter Combat Talent Option: One-handed Weapon Talent (Hybrid)
Dragonborn Racial Power Option: Dragon Breath
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Cold
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Ironwrought

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 13, DEX 19, INT 9, WIS 11, CHA 15

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 12, DEX 16, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 12


AC: 29 Fort: 28 Ref: 27 Will: 23
HP: 109 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 28

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +14, Diplomacy +13, Endurance +10, Intimidate +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Arcana +5, Bluff +8, Dungeoneering +6, Heal +6, History +7, Insight +6, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +5, Stealth +7, Streetwise +8, Thievery +7

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Ironwrought Attack: Inevitable Strike
Dragonborn Racial Power: Dragon Breath
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Warden Feature: Warden's Fury
Warden Feature: Warden's Grasp
Paladin Feature: Divine Challenge
Fighter Attack 1: Footwork Lure
Warden Attack 1: Weight of Earth
Warden Attack 1: Form of Winter's Herald
Warden Utility 2: Warden's Tempest
Fighter Attack 3: Rain of Blows
Fighter Attack 5: Rain of Steel
Fighter Utility 6: Kirre's Roar
Warden Attack 7: Guardian's Pounce
Warden Attack 9: Form of the Oak Sentinel
Fighter Utility 10: Fighter's Grit
Honorable Blade Attack 11: Draconic Sidestep
Honorable Blade Utility 12: Draconic Leap
Fighter Attack 13: Chains of Sorrow

FEATS
Level 1: Flail Expertise
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Soldier of the Faith
Level 6: Draconic Challenge
Level 8: Hurl Breath
Level 10: Improved Defenses
Level 11: Lasting Frost
Level 12: Icy Heart

ITEMS
Amulet of Protection +3 x1
Magic Hide Armor +3 x1
Heavy Shield x1
Feyslaughter Alhulak +2 x1
Elven Chain Shirt (heroic tier)
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Symbol of Victory +2 x1
Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (heroic tier)
Gloves of Ice (paragon tier) x1
====== End ======


[/sblock]

[sblock Chimera level 30]


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Chimera, level 30
Dragonborn, Fighter/Warden, Honorable Blade, Indomitable Champion
Hybrid Warden Option: Hybrid Warden Fortitude
Fighter Combat Talent Option: One-handed Weapon Talent (Hybrid)
Draconic Resistance Option: Draconic Resistance Cold
Epic Heroism Option: Strength
Epic Heroism Option: Dexterity
Dragonborn Racial Power Option: Dragon Breath
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Cold
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Ironwrought

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 28, CON 14, DEX 26, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 16

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 12, DEX 16, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 12


AC: 47 Fort: 46 Ref: 45 Will: 38
HP: 238 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 61

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +27, Diplomacy +23, Endurance +20, Streetwise +23

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +20, Arcana +15, Bluff +18, Dungeoneering +16, Heal +16, History +17, Insight +16, Intimidate +20, Nature +16, Perception +16, Religion +15, Stealth +20, Thievery +20

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Ironwrought Attack: Inevitable Strike
Dragonborn Racial Power: Dragon Breath
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Warden Feature: Warden's Fury
Warden Feature: Warden's Grasp
Paladin Feature: Divine Challenge
Fighter Attack 1: Footwork Lure
Warden Attack 1: Weight of Earth
Warden Utility 2: Warden's Tempest
Fighter Attack 3: Reaver's Hook
Fighter Utility 6: Kirre's Roar
Warden Attack 7: Guardian's Pounce
Fighter Utility 10: Fighter's Grit
Fighter Utility 10: Clearheaded
Honorable Blade Attack 11: Draconic Sidestep
Honorable Blade Utility 12: Draconic Leap
Fighter Attack 15: Unyielding Avalanche
Warden Attack 17: Warden's Lure
Fighter Attack 19: Devastation's Wake
Honorable Blade Attack 20: Whirling Dragon
Fighter Utility 22: Undeniable Challenge
Indomitable Champion Utility 26: Epic Tenacity
Fighter Attack 27: Cruel Reaper
Warden Attack 29: Form of the Imperious Phoenix
Indomitable Champion Utility 30: Unmatched Defense

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Flail Expertise
Level 4: Soldier of the Faith
Level 6: Draconic Challenge
Level 8: Hurl Breath
Level 10: Improved Defenses
Level 11: Lasting Frost
Level 12: Icy Heart
Level 16: Reserve Maneuver
Level 20: Lashing Flail
Level 21: Weakening Challenge
Level 21: Mobile Warrior
Level 22: Martial Mastery
Level 22: Superior Initiative
Level 24: Rapid Combat Challenge
Level 26: Rapid Wild Defense
Level 28: Long Step
Level 30: Cunning Stalker

ITEMS
Amulet of Protection +3
Magic Hide Armor +3
Heavy Shield x1
Feyslaughter Alhulak +2
Elven Chain Shirt (heroic tier)
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Symbol of Victory +2 x1
Circlet of Arkhosia (paragon tier) x2
Magic Hide Armor +6 x1
Amulet of Protection +6 x1
Feyslaughter Alhulak +6 x1
====== End ======[/sblock]


 

Nova Sequences:
Heroic Tier: Move, Breathe, do Rain of Blows, AP: Wildblood Frenzy
Paragon: Minor: Throw Dragonbreath which Divine Sanctions, Move, Do Chain of Sorrows with Ironwrought, AP: Rain of Blows
Epic: Minor: Throw Dragonbreath which Divine Sanctions and has Weakening Challenge attached at one group of opponents, then move up to another group and do Warden's Lure(basically enlarged, pre-errata CaGi). Follow up with AP: Rain of Blows.
Breakdown of Marking Strategies:
Has 5 primary ways of marking:
Uses Breath Weapon 1-3 times a combat as Divine Sanction, in Epic, adds Weakening Challenge. Violate it and take a little damage.
Uses Divine Challenge 1/encounter, in Epic, adds Weakening Challenge. Violate it and take a little damage.
Nature's Wrath - free action mark one adjacent target. Violate any mark while adjacent and get swung at.
Combat Challenge - attack target with Fighter power, mark it. Shift or attack someone else while adjacent and get swung at. On a hit, get knocked prone or slid.
Kirre's Roar - mark close burst 3, pick up DR Dex.
(just in case)
Champion of Order must be worth a consideration.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Champion of Order must be worth a consideration.



Honorable Blade does a couple of things:
Gives the build a full-blown Cold option that is in addition to mostly untyped damage attacks insead of changing it to solely cold damage. That also allows free-action Feyslaughter and the Frost Package. With two uses of Rain of Blows in Epic on an AP, that's a respectable number of attacks.
Honorable Blade gives it an extra use of Breath via AP which does area 2 ranged 10 Divine Sanction and then Weaken in Epic.

This is part of the feat problem - I'd really like to find extra feats to use on things such as gaining an extra sanction in Epic. Replacing Kirre's Roar with Call of Challenge as an example.

I'm actually, to a certain extent, considering not taking Hybrid Talent at all, because that would free up a feat slot. A +1 to hit is likely worth less than a 19-20 crit chance as an example in Epic.
Until epic, your sanction is pretty ignorable (unless there is a morninglord in the party). You are certainly making sacrifices to your defender side (e.g. taking a symbol of victory rather than a symbol of the champion's code) and you have to be careful not to become a jack of all tades, master of none.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Until epic, your sanction is pretty ignorable (unless there is a morninglord in the party). You are certainly making sacrifices to your defender side (e.g. taking a symbol of victory rather than a symbol of the champion's code) and you have to be careful not to become a jack of all tades, master of none.



Symbol of Champion's Code isn't going to mean all that much damage for the build. Even in an ideal circumstance, I can't see getting more than 6 distributed damage instances per combat with it.

Also, this build is a lot about doing damage to institute Defender status. Chain of Sorrows+double roll+Rain of Blows ought to mean around 100 damage at 13th as an example. That's not a standard all by itself, but having -5 to defenses, unable to teleport and marked by an opponent that can punish either a shift or move? Not going to be all that happy.
What's the benefit of being Fighter|Warden instead of Fighter|Paladin? The latter saves you a feat in heroic and opens up Call of Challenge, fixing a couple problems that you mentioned.
Can you explain to me why DC and DS matter at all before Weakening Challenge comes online? After Weakening Challenge, sure, they're badass, but before then, I don't see them being more than a minor nuisance at best. Am I missing something, or are they really just there on principle, rather than actually contributing much?
I suppose they are still a mark, and that itself can be useful sometimes.
You can take Weakening Challenge with MC Paladin? With Soldier of the Faith you gain "Once per encounter, you can use the paladin’s divine challenge power" and Weakening Challenge has divine challenge (the class feature) as a prerequisite.

Just asking.
Sapphire - Swormage Dragon Guardian - Dont touch my allies build. Swordmage / Sigil Carver / Draconic incarnation The Holy Slayer - A Striker - Defender Fighter | Cleric / Barbarian - Paragon of Victory WEREBEAR BATTLEMIND: You wont go where you want. - A Battlemind (Druid) / Unbound Nomad / Topaz Crusader
You can take Weakening Challenge with MC Paladin? With Soldier of the Faith you gain "Once per encounter, you can use the paladin’s divine challenge power" and Weakening Challenge has divine challenge (the class feature) as a prerequisite.

Just asking.


Multiclassing into a feat that gives you access to another class' feature lets you count as having said class feature. PHB 208 brings up an example of a Warlock taking Sneak of Shadows satisfying the Sneak Attack class feature and letting him take Backstabber.
Multiclassing into a feat that gives you access to another class' feature lets you count as having said class feature. PHB 208 brings up an example of a Warlock taking Sneak of Shadows satisfying the Sneak Attack class feature and letting him take Backstabber.


Yes thanks, I suposed that but I wasn't able to find it, so thats why I asked.

The build is original, and seems fun but I agree that divine challenge in heroic / paragon is not that effective.
Sapphire - Swormage Dragon Guardian - Dont touch my allies build. Swordmage / Sigil Carver / Draconic incarnation The Holy Slayer - A Striker - Defender Fighter | Cleric / Barbarian - Paragon of Victory WEREBEAR BATTLEMIND: You wont go where you want. - A Battlemind (Druid) / Unbound Nomad / Topaz Crusader
What's the benefit of being Fighter|Warden instead of Fighter|Paladin? The latter saves you a feat in heroic and opens up Call of Challenge, fixing a couple problems that you mentioned.


Fighter|Paladin and Warden|Paladin are fairly comparable to this build overall, but regardless of which way you go you'll always be missing *something* due to the feat starvation.

Surely higher Cha than Dex for Theme: Yakuza is worth consideration?

One variant build is to take advantage of fighter/paladin mass marking and Wildblood's 2nd Wind effect
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Can you explain to me why DC and DS matter at all before Weakening Challenge comes online? After Weakening Challenge, sure, they're badass, but before then, I don't see them being more than a minor nuisance at best. Am I missing something, or are they really just there on principle, rather than actually contributing much?



It isn't improbable that the build could mark the entire battlefield at 11th as part of a nova sequence. 2 5x5 squares of marks + 1 target hit with Rain of Blows and 1 target in burst 1 formation with the 1st target marked with Warden's mark.

Each individual mark might be a minor nuisance, but 5-8 hp of damage in Heroic/Paragon for violating it, a -2 to hit, hey, maybe I actually hit with the Dragonbreath, and one standard heavily bloodied while possibly going first is an interesting nova sequence for a Defender. And makes for a very happy melee striker who can either finish off your target or have a little extra defenses for when he attacks someone else.

Yakuza: Doesn't boost initiative and one of the benefits of Ironwrought is to help make the build a little harder to take down. I'm worried the build attracts all the attention and then repeatedly gets the focus fire.

One of the possible variant builds is go Thunder and then pick up Come and Get It, Warden's Lure, and whatever the upgraded Come and Get It's name is. Pick up a boost forced movement 1 item and Resounding Thunder and have close burst 4/5/5 enemy only pulls + attacks.
Honestly my concern isn't from focus fire so much as being ignored.

Looking at this as a DM I would just not target you if it wasn't convenient. -2 to hit and 5-8 hp worth of damage is completely negligible. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Honestly my concern isn't from focus fire so much as being ignored.

Looking at this as a DM I would just not target you if it wasn't convenient. -2 to hit and 5-8 hp worth of damage is completely negligible. 



I'm okay with that too. It isn't that much less effect than a real Paladin would do(3-7, using Inexhaustible Dragon Sovereign as a baseline), and both Fighter & Warden are capable of punishing a Paladin's mark.

The advantage for me, that I see, is in the following:
I have enough Initiative that given any other boosts, I'll likely go before a significant percentage of Team Monster does.
With my Dragonbreath, I'm sanctioning targets that most Defenders simply couldn't typically mark on round 1.
Minions can't ignore it. Hit or miss, they're sanctioned and dead if they ignore me.
And of course, on round 2, I can Divine Challenge my mark target, so he'll take an extra auto 5-8 damage on top of either Combat Challenge or Warden's Fury.

i.e. the damage might be neglible, but that's going to be a -2 to hit and 5-8 damage + maybe 4.5-8 damage that they wouldn't have most of the time in round 1 of the combat. Ignoring me might be the right decision, but a lot of DMs might not make that choice after I churn out strong striker damage and the sanctions and the other marks on round 1.

I like the effect on tactical DMs. I'm just worried about non-tactical DMs repeatedly trying to focus fire on my Defender in a game where Comrade's Succor use might get socially frowned on.
Honestly my concern isn't from focus fire so much as being ignored.

Looking at this as a DM I would just not target you if it wasn't convenient. -2 to hit and 5-8 hp worth of damage is completely negligible. 



The advantage for me, that I see, is in the following:
I have enough Initiative that given any other boosts, I'll likely go before a significant percentage of Team Monster does.
With my Dragonbreath, I'm sanctioning targets that most Defenders simply couldn't typically mark on round 1.

I like the effect on tactical DMs. I'm just worried about non-tactical DMs repeatedly trying to focus fire on my Defender in a game where Comrade's Succor use might get socially frowned on.



Why would you consider it non-tactical for a DM to focus fire?  If you are being the most annoying PC on the board you should expect the pain.

As a DM I have a similar PC to deal with.  Great character and player but he does tend to 'over-mark' the board.  The rest of the party is two strikers, a bard, and a companion PC, all quite a bit more squishy comparatively, so drawing team monsters attention seems a solid choice.  But having 5 standards attacking you isn't wise.  If they all hit, it is almost certainly nap time.  Even with a good AC, say only 30% chance for TM to hit (L+5 tohit vs L+20 AC), eventually it is a first round KO for TM, that doesn't seem wise.