March update to DDI tools?

163 posts / 0 new
Last post
The only thing we do know is that Hasbro, in 2006 or so, had expectations of each unit of the corporation producing $50M.  A number which someone in Wizards actually convinced them they could achieve.



I would take that information with a *very* large grain of salt. Information like that is rarely, if ever, made public. Chances are it is known only at the higher levels of WotC and Hasbro, and I would be *extremely* surprised if WotC/Hasbro would ever release anything like that. Ryan Dancey has not been at that level for quite a while.
 


*shrug*  Under the circumstances, I have more faith in anything Dancey might have to say about anything at all than I do in anything that might come from a current WotC/Hasbro employee.  I may use a pinch for him, but I'll need a dumptruck load for each one of them.
Forgive my lack of trust on the subject, but a couple of years ago, when people asked when the offline Character & Monster Builders would be next updated, they pretty much gave the same response that Trevor did.  Same for when they were dropping the VTT tests; they didn't let anyone know it was happening until after it already happened.



I completely agree. The track record is very poor.

But, that's why I'm not looking for really hard and fast deadlines or promises if Wizards isn't in a position to offer them and keep them. If the path forward isn't clear, they should keep things vague until they know what the path forward will be.

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

     There is one important job that WOTC has.  Just one.  They have to make me WANT to play Next.  Making me not want to play 4e is not the same thing.  Most of us D&D players want to give you our money.  All we want is a good game, and a little respect.
     Trevor popped in and said something along the lines of jumping back in when he knows more about updates etc, but that he didn't want to keep coming back in to tell us there was no new info, or that he didn't know anything new.  Taking 5 minutes per week to post a message on the forums letting us know there is no new information may seem like a waste of his time, but even though the content of the post may not be anything new, the fact that the time was taken to communicate with us regularly provides one super important piece of information.  What is that information?  The fact the we, the customers and forum members of WOTC are respected and worth 5 minutes per week of WOTC's time.  Currently, I don't feel that respect.  
     So, show me some love guys!  Pop in once or twice a week and say, "Sorry, no news yet.  Hope you guys are enjoying D&D, and happy gaming!"  I will reciprocate by showing you my love in return in the form of rectangular pieces of green cloth with pictures of dead presidents on them.  
   
     
      
     There is one important job that WOTC has.  Just one.  They have to make me WANT to play Next.  Making me not want to play 4e is not the same thing.  Most of us D&D players want to give you our money.  All we want is a good game, and a little respect.
     Trevor popped in and said something along the lines of jumping back in when he knows more about updates etc, but that he didn't want to keep coming back in to tell us there was no new info, or that he didn't know anything new.  Taking 5 minutes per week to post a message on the forums letting us know there is no new information may seem like a waste of his time, but even though the content of the post may not be anything new, the fact that the time was taken to communicate with us regularly provides one super important piece of information.  What is that information?  The fact the we, the customers and forum members of WOTC are respected and worth 5 minutes per week of WOTC's time.  Currently, I don't feel that respect.  
     So, show me some love guys!  Pop in once or twice a week and say, "Sorry, no news yet.  Hope you guys are enjoying D&D, and happy gaming!"  I will reciprocate by showing you my love in return in the form of rectangular pieces of green cloth with pictures of dead presidents on them.  



Just playing Devil's advocate here, but for every person who says tht they want Tevor to pop in with "Sorry guys, no info yet", there is a person who will complin that they do not want to see Trevor in here unless he has information to share.

Trevor does his best, but there are a lot of conflicting desires that show up here. 
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
He pretty much has given us his answer by not in fact giving a straight response other than "soon" and "I don't know". It's just the answer none of us wanted to hear. I'm enjoying the tools while they last.
It seems to me that WoTC wants to keep the flow of money coming in for the DDI tools, but they don't want to spend any time or effort in maintaining them.  Dragon/Dungeon is not worth the time to glance through since there really is nothing there to read.  The CB and Compendium are about the only things left worth using and they seem to be doing their best to screw things up there as well.  So I'm not surprised we aren't hearing anything from Trevor, because the only things he would have to say are the only things we don't want to hear.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/26.jpg)

Honestly, it's very hard for me to believe that WotC's D&D team and MTG team exist in the same building.  Over on the Magic side of the forums we have staff crawling out of the woodwork to chat us up and address our concerns as well as a handful of regularly used tumblr accounts, some twitter feeds, at least one Google+ account, and a weekly podcast.  It shocks me to see the disparity between how the MTG side of the company and the D&D side handle their respective customers.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

It shocks me to see the disparity between how the MTG side of the company and the D&D side handle their respective customers.


Keep in mind the shocking disparity in revenue streams. It may very well be that D&D gains a greater ratio of community participants per dollar of revenue.

Obviously, it isn't just about cold math, but the MtG side has the resources (fueled by fans that pay to play constantly) to afford a lot more involvement. D&D is accused of being a huge evil corp every time they try to do something to increase their revenue.

Again, I suspect there isn't much to communicate. I would guess that they just don't know when to phase out the 4E tools. I sure don't know, and I suspect we all would give different answers as to what is appropriate (plus we don't know the costs or personnel drain). it is unlikely that they have a secure decision and are just not communicating it.

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

Is there any dnd 4e character creator out there that is up to date since apparently they can't keep there character builder that i'm paying for up to date??



I bought a Herolab license a couple of months ago for just this sort of eventuality. Had intended to wait until 4E tools were actually pulled before switching to it but the poor handling of this announcement was the last straw. It works very well and I'm glad WotC convinced me to make the switch early.

As an added bonus, the refund on my remaining DDI subscription (I was paid until January) has covered the cost of the Herolab license as well. 
Forgive my lack of trust on the subject, but a couple of years ago, when people asked when the offline Character & Monster Builders would be next updated, they pretty much gave the same response that Trevor did.  Same for when they were dropping the VTT tests; they didn't let anyone know it was happening until after it already happened.



I completely agree. The track record is very poor.

But, that's why I'm not looking for really hard and fast deadlines or promises if Wizards isn't in a position to offer them and keep them. If the path forward isn't clear, they should keep things vague until they know what the path forward will be.




I'm sorry Alpha but I can't agree with this. Just because the company has been poor in the past, I don't think paying customers should therefore have to lower their expectations. I am a public sector employee and I am expected to make commitments every day in my job and stick to them. Why should a private company not do the same for its customers?

 
I'm sorry Alpha but I can't agree with this. Just because the company has been poor in the past, I don't think paying customers should therefore have to lower their expectations. I am a public sector employee and I am expected to make commitments every day in my job and stick to them. Why should a private company not do the same for its customers?


All companies still need to look at what they can and can't afford to do. The RPG industry is terrible. It isn't about lowering our expectations but being reasonable with them. More customer service comes out of the same budget that allows creating games. Again, if they don't know the path forward, spending more on customer PR isn't a good use of money. I would rather they hire great managers, pay their existing staff more so they retain talent, etc.

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

I think, at least partially, the problem is that people see the long shadow of Hasbro and its piles of money overlapping Wotc's MTG side of the business and its truckloads upon truckloads of revenue and forget that the D&D side of the business is truly on its own to feed itself with its meager earnings. 

There has been some evidence that the MTG side is going to start helping out; sadly the folding of Brady Dommermuth's job as Creative Director into a broader Creative Lead position that handles work across all aspects of the company in order to hopefully get some of Magic's "magic" to rub off on DDN.  But overall, I'm not sure if it will be enough.  What D&D needs is cash, and, for some reason, RPG players are far more resistant to being monetized than TCG players are.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

What D&D needs is cash, and, for some reason, RPG players are far more resistant to being monetized than TCG players are.

Mainly because too many RPG players think it's their god-given right to pirate (AKA STEAL) their games while TCG players can't really get away with that as much.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Mainly because too many RPG players think it's their god-given right to pirate (AKA STEAL) their games while TCG players can't really get away with that as much.


Pardon me, but that's purely anecdotal; there is no proof whatsoever that RPGers pirate more or less than anyone else.† However, there are plenty of us who have the red square with the white dragon silhouette under our avatars.

Right now, the issues being raised in this thread (and others which you've nastily dismissed with your oneliners) have less to do with what's being published (which would be the stuff that could be pirated), but with the stuff that's already been paid for, but is not being maintained.

I, for one, am perfectly happy to continue to pay for the service.  But I actually want the service I'm paying for.

I have an annual contract with a pest-control service.  For the money that I've paid them, they're expected to come to my house 4 times a year, and if there are any pest-control issues that are covered in the between-times they come out for free and handle it.  If they were to suddenly decide, after the contract's already been signed and paid, to start coming 2 times a year, and charge for the between services, then they're breaching that contract.  If they refused to compensate for it, I'd hire a new company and they wouldn't get my money any more.

I have an annual contract with a HVAC company.  For the money that I've paid them, they come out twice a year (around the equinoxes) for between-season servicing, and give significant discounts for any issues which arise during the year.  If, after the contract's already been signed and paid, they decided to make it a once-a-year servicing, make me pay for it, and drop the discounts, then it would be a breach of contract.  If they refuse to compensate for it, I'd hire a new company and they wouldn't get any more of my money.  (In fact, they're my current company pretty much because of that very reason.)

Right now, I have an annual contract with Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro.  For the money that I've paid them, I expect two magazines once a month, the monster- and character-building tools, the online compendium, and regular updating of those last three (which, at the time I paid them, was monthly).  They have stopped providing that last service.  That, by my rule-of-thumb, is a breaching of contract.

In each of these cases, the amount of money is a pittance; it would cost me more to talk to a lawyer about it than the money that I believe I'm owed.  So I'm not worried about legal issues.  I don't give a rat's patootie about what people may or may not be paying for.  I do care about what I have already paid.  It is what they owe me, and others like me.  It is not a matter of "entitlement."  It is a matter of a customer being given what they've paid for, or being given the money back in return for the decline of service.

Savvy?

Perhaps, in fact, if they hadn't decreased their service as much as they have over the past several years, then there'd be more people still paying for that service, no?  Or perhaps if they were honest about it, and transparent, instead of not bothering to announce these things until after the fact, there'd be fewer people who are still paying for it upset.

They're in a customer service industry.  They need to service the customers.  They are not.

In fact, purely anecdotally:
• When I played Magic, I never bought anything first-hand; everything I ever had was acquired second-hand, either given to me by friends who wanted me to have them, won as antes, or purchased as individual cards from dealers.  So I never directly gave Wizards of the Coast a direct dime, with regard to M:tG.

• On the other hand, I've bought pretty much every 4e D&D book available, straight from the first-hand retailers (either bookstores or online).  The only stuff I've acquired second-hand are the things which Wizards/Hasbro has steadfastly refuses to make available for purchase even after a number of us have petitioned them to do so (ie, Encounters, Lair Assault, RPGA rewards, etc).

Not that either of those things matter, not really.  Like I said, it's purely anecdotal.  But perhaps there'd be less issue with piracy if Wizards/Hasbro had a better PDF/ePublishing program, so that people could buy the books without having to pay for the manufacture of them?  Paizo pretty much sells most if not all of their stuff in PDF form (not to mention a completely free OGC website), and they're allegedly outprofiting D&D, no?  Clearly, that being the case, piracy's not that big of an issue.

Right now, I have an annual contract with Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro.  For the money that I've paid them, I expect two magazines once a month, the monster- and character-building tools, the online compendium, and regular updating of those last three (which, at the time I paid them, was monthly).  They have stopped providing that last service.  That, by my rule-of-thumb, is a breaching of contract.



This is overstating the case, by a lot.  You never signed a contract with WotC wherein they promised to provide all the things you say, including monthly updates to DDI.  Yes, they had been providing regular updates until recently, but it's not written into any contract that they are required to.

I'm as pissed at WotC as the next person, to the point where I'm preparing to switch over to Pathfinder when (not "if") 4E DDI support gets dropped, but exaggerating like this reduces your credibility.
 It shocks me to see the disparity between how the MTG side of the company and the D&D side handle their respective customers.



As was mentioned, the difference in revenue between MTG and D&D would stagger you. MtG is, IIRC, not simply the highest-grossing WotC property, it is the highest grossing Hasbro property. MtG gets yearly(??) new card sets released and removes old sets from play. They hold competitions where the cost to entry is to buy a new set (or two) of cards. And the fanbase?? They accept this and support it whole-heartedly.

D&D players OTOH, sceamed loud and hard when, for Encounters, WotC limited it to a series of books. D&D players scream bloody murder and cry treason most foul when  WotC dares to think about doing something (like release a new edition of the game) that would increase the revenue stream.

It is simply not possible to compare the two brands, as the revenue streams are orders of magnitude in difference. 
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Pardon me, but that's purely anecdotal; there is no proof whatsoever that RPGers pirate more or less than anyone else

Thanks for trying to educate me, but I'll believe what I see in front of my own eyes all the time.  Piracy hurts those who make their living creatively; rationalize all you want.  I've seen it cost people in the game industry salary, promotions and jobs, and it sucks.  

No one accused you of anything so there's no need to attempt to defend thieves.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”


All companies still need to look at what they can and can't afford to do. The RPG industry is terrible. It isn't about lowering our expectations but being reasonable with them. More customer service comes out of the same budget that allows creating games. Again, if they don't know the path forward, spending more on customer PR isn't a good use of money. I would rather they hire great managers, pay their existing staff more so they retain talent, etc.



Absolutely, but they shouldn't commit to provide a service, charge in advance for that service and then reduce that service part way through the period paid for. We're also not really, in this particular instance, talking about any expensive PR. We're talking about announcing changes via social media and customers finding out second hand via messageboards. A broadcast message or official forum announcement would have had negligible cost or at least would have cost a small portion of the refund they've just provided me for my cancelled subscription (assuming I'm alone in cancelling).


Right now, I have an annual contract with Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro.  For the money that I've paid them, I expect two magazines once a month, the monster- and character-building tools, the online compendium, and regular updating of those last three (which, at the time I paid them, was monthly).  They have stopped providing that last service.  That, by my rule-of-thumb, is a breaching of contract.

In each of these cases, the amount of money is a pittance; it would cost me more to talk to a lawyer about it than the money that I believe I'm owed.  So I'm not worried about legal issues.  I don't give a rat's patootie about what people may or may not be paying for.  I do care about what I have already paid.  It is what they owe me, and others like me.  It is not a matter of "entitlement."  It is a matter of a customer being given what they've paid for, or being given the money back in return for the decline of service.



This. And this is not the first time the service has been reduced since D&DI was launched. Thankfully, the customer service people seem to accept the company's shortcomings in this regard and in my experience do not argue over providing refunds.

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />This is overstating the case, by a lot.  You never signed a contract with WotC wherein they promised to provide all the things you say, including monthly updates to DDI.  Yes, they had been providing regular updates until recently, but it's not written into any contract that they are required to.


(1) Please show me where I have demanded monthly updates from them.

I have requested regular updates — updates at expected times.  To that end, I have requested dated updates (ie, they tell us in advance when they're doing it, instead of this "soon" garbage).  In fact, I've also requested that if they are too short handed, that they consider asking for volunteers to help with the upkeep, and that I'd be willing to help do so.

(2) And you're right, it's not written into any contract that they provide regular updates, though all three tools do require regular updates in order to be useful (because of the added content that can't be used without it, they become less useful the longer the updates are left undone), so it is kind of an implied thing.

However, this did make me a bit curious, so I went and checked something.  The Terms of Use are vague as to what we're paying for — "Charged Offerings" — only saying that they're described at point of sale.  Invoices aren't currently available for some reason, and the email'd receipt doesn't actually describe what you're paying for.

The only thing that does:  The current subscription page.  I don't know what it said when I last subscribed, but this is what it's saying we're paying for now:
With a subscription to D&D Insider, you gain instant access to each month's Dragon and Dungeon magazine content, as well as PDF downloads of the magazine issues at the end of the month. In addition, you gain full use of the D&D Compendium database, as well as three Bonus Tools: the Encounter Builder, Monster Builder, and Ability Generator.


Notice anything missing?

The Character Builder.

Verrrrrrry interesting.

I really am curious as to when this wording was last changed — if it got changed since they started the monthly downloads back up, or if it said that before.  I really wish my invoice was available (their system is down, so they say, and they claim to be trying to make them available soon; I wonder about that, though there's that word "soon" again...).
Not sure which page you are referring to swmabie, but both the Tools and the DDi Subscription pages mention the Character Builder among their offering.


Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

The only thing that does:  The current subscription page.  I don't know what it said when I last subscribed, but this is what it's saying we're paying for now:
With a subscription to D&D Insider, you gain instant access to each month's Dragon and Dungeon magazine content, as well as PDF downloads of the magazine issues at the end of the month. In addition, you gain full use of the D&D Compendium database, as well as three Bonus Tools: the Encounter Builder, Monster Builder, and Ability Generator.


Notice anything missing?

The Character Builder.

Verrrrrrry interesting.

I really am curious as to when this wording was last changed — if it got changed since they started the monthly downloads back up, or if it said that before.  I really wish my invoice was available (their system is down, so they say, and they claim to be trying to make them available soon; I wonder about that, though there's that word "soon" again...).




???

Could you link to the page that you are looking at where it makes no reference to the Character Builder? The current DDI subscription page (www.wizards.com/dnd/subscription.aspx) has the Character Builder as the first item listed under "Your subscription includes". The Tools page (www.wizards.com/dnd/Tools.aspx) also has the Character Builder listed on the page.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Not sure I can give you the exact link given that it's within my account info, and I'm not giving anyone links to that stuff just in case, but I can give you a basic overview of where I found it, with what links & such I can provide, so that you can find it yourself. 

• At the bottom of your current page, click on "Terms of Use"
• Go to clause 4a ("Fees and Payments for Charged Offerings," "Payment Terms")
• Click on the link embedded in "account details page"
• After you sign in (assuming you have to do so), click on "Order History"
• Click on your most recent subscription
• Click on "Manage Subscription"

And there you'll find something that should look like this....



Which is what I quoted from yesterday.  And, as you can see, it makes no mention of the Character Builder.

All those other pages?  They don't matter, because they only show what you might be paying for.  They don't show what you did pay for.
All those other pages?  They don't matter, because they only show what you might be paying for.  They don't show what you did pay for.



Actually, those other pages *do* mean a whole lot. They define what you are getting when you pay subscribe to DDI. And, given that on the subsription page it says, quite clearly and unambiguously, that you get access to the CB when you subscribe, they cannot, legally*, decline or refuse to give you something that is indicated on the subscription page.

Note that when you log into your account and look at your order details, it appears that you are grabbing info from an external site (Digital River), so again, I would not take anything written on there as gospel. Rather, as I mentioned, you need to look at what it says you get when you subscribe. That is what should be looked at when implying that WotC may be committing a crime.

*Note, not a lawyer. 
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
I've removed content from this thread. Forum disruption  is a violation of the Code of Conduct

You can review the Code of Conduct here: company.wizards.com/conduct

All those other pages?  They don't matter, because they only show what you might be paying for.  They don't show what you did pay for.



Actually, those other pages *do* mean a whole lot. They define what you are getting when you pay subscribe to DDI. And, given that on the subsription page it says, quite clearly and unambiguously, that you get access to the CB when you subscribe, they cannot, legally*, decline or refuse to give you something that is indicated on the subscription page.


Actually, those other pages seriously don't mean anything.*  The only thing that means anything is your receipt, whether its from a third party or direct.  The page to which I referred is as close to a receipt as I can produce.

The pages to which you referred are advertising.  You don't get your final total there.  You don't commit to paying the money there.  You don't choose any subscription options there.  And it doesn't give the final invoice stating what you are getting for what you are paying for.

Ultimately, that's what matters.  That and all the fine print in the ToS which essentially states, in their legalistic loopholese, that the company can change what's considered "Charged Offerings" (or pretty much anything else) at the whim of themselves or their representatives.

* Also not a lawyer or licensed agent.  But have some familiarity with contracts.
I did recreated swmabie's path and i indeed get to the same Subscription Details that list everything except the Character Builder. I don't know if it ever included it or not, but what matters to me is that i actually have access to the Character Builder when i subscribe, as advertised. The contrary would be problematic. 

But it should definitly mention it in the Subscription Detail as a software you get access to with the effective payment.


CustServ advised Ticket  [#130512-000387]  

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

I think its safe to say, as long as WoTC's stance is weak on the future of the CB, people are going to be very paranoid.
I don't know about you, but I bought my subscription from here:

www.wizards.com/dnd/subscription.aspx

That lists the CB as the first thing included in the bundle.
You are implying that WotC has changed the language so that it can scam users, and in doing so, you are accusing them of performing, sometime in the future, an action that is prohibited by law.

Do you really think that any WotC official will touch that comment with a 10 foot pole?  

(Hint - The answer is no) 
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere

We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.


You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...


Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.


Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intellegent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others. Believe us when we say it is possible.


Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.

You are implying that WotC has changed the language so that it can scam users, and in doing so, you are accusing them of performing, sometime in the future, an action that is prohibited by law.

Do you really think that any WotC official will touch that comment with a 10 foot pole?  

(Hint - The answer is no) 


Actually, its not illegal.  The Terms of Service state that they can change anything at any time.  The invoice and the receipt are what matter, ultimately, and they don't have the Character Builder mentioned on them.

The practice in question may be unethical and dishonest, and may make the customer feel betrayed.  But illegal?  It's very tricky to prove fraud even if it's intentional.  They can always blame some clerk they fired years ago for the error, worst case, and easily get away with it.

So, to answer your question:  No.  They really didn't do anything illegal, so they have nothing to fear.  (You'll note that I never did accuse them of doing so, either.)  Even if it were across the borderline, all they have to do is say whether the absence of the Character Builder from the subscription receipt is intentional or unintentional.  Or, at the very least, return it.

(Which is further reason why the moderator deleting that paragraph in the original moderated post and deleting the entire thing this time is going way overboard.  Not only have I worded it in a way that I was given permission by Customer Service to do, after the first time, but there was no reason even in the original verbotten wording, to begin with.  Saying that they advertised the entryway in one fashion and then sold a bill of goods in another fashion isn't accusing them of doing anything illegal.  And I was far more polite about it than most around here are about various things.)
No.  They really didn't do anything illegal, so they have nothing to fear.  (You'll note that I never did accuse them of doing so, either.)




Right now, I have an annual contract with Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro.  For the money that I've paid them, I expect two magazines once a month, the monster- and character-building tools, the online compendium, and regular updating of those last three (which, at the time I paid them, was monthly).  They have stopped providing that last service.  That, by my rule-of-thumb, is a breaching of contract.



Isn't breach of contract illegal?  Again, I'm as upset about the slow and unacknowledged death of DDI as everyone else is, but you seem to have changed your mind (for the better) on the legal issue of breach of contract.
WWWAAAAHHHH!! WWWAAAAHHHH!!!

WHERE IS THE STUFFF, AHHHWWWAAHHH!!!! WHERE IN THE DND'S CHARACTER'S BUILDER IS OUR DRAGON'S ISSUES STUFF???

ISSUE #421 ISN'T IN THE CHARACTER BUILDER!!

WWWWAAAHHH!!! WAAAHHH!!!!

My DM wants me to type-in my Spellscarred Dragonborn Cavalier who supposed to grow wings and start spitting up acidic saliva as a red-homebrew-made Character sheet because the new Draconian Options for dragonborns that was published in the Dragon Issue #421 haven't been updated into the CB on it's expected well-known and long practiced waiting duration schedule by the Wizard's Magazines and the Wizards' Character Builder connection.

(Do you guys know how tacky that red house square symbol looks on a character in any of the Keep of The Shadowfell Adventures?)

WWWAAAHHHHH!!! I CAN'T DO THAT. I WON'T DO THAT!!! (I don't even know how to do that... )

WHERE DID THE SUPER-ASTUTE WIZARD THAT WAS OVERSEEING ALL THOSE OTHER SUPER-COOL WIZARDS KEEPING THE BIG CB UP-TO-DATE WITH THE DRAGON MAGAZINE'S INFO ON A BELOVED AND APPRECIATED SCHEDULE UNTIL THIS YEAR?

I WANT TO BUY HIM A DRINK OR SEND HER FLOWERS OR JUST KISS UP IF THIS WILL GET THE big CB'S UPDATES BACK ON ITS WELL-APPRECIATED SCHEDULE WHICH UNTIL RECENTLY WAS DONE WITH AN ALWAYS ADMIRABLE PROFESSIONALISM!!

So, please, pretty please Mr. Super-Astute Wizard of the past exemplar of professionalism dedication, I beg of thee, to take part in some old fashion advising and light a nice warm one under whomever shouldn't be making and keeping your contented Insider's Account clients on threads like this, from carrying on with such a gross, faugh demeanor of the fulll grown child crying shamelessly?

(Well here in my case, lets call it wailing over a little thing like the month to month updates to our "Big CB" )     

Well thank you; all of you, for this place where us DnD Insiders' can voice our concerns with the always enjoyable hobby that we together love playing.

Thank you, Signed VoyRager.

Who/What Am I?
"I might have been a hmmm... eh-eh well, y'kno but, instead" I'm a fighter... --
peacekeepermedc.gif -- ...not a lover. This signature concept is from "http://www.pathguy.com/index2.htm"
html_removed
What I Doing Here?
@MTG Forums. Contestant: A Contest Like No Other hosted by Fakeartist. An Angelic Aspect In The Wild, Wild World Of The Mata Hari's Agency. @DnD Forums. Digital Artist In Training: What Do YOU Think MY Character Looks Like's Thread - @4e Character Development forum. Player (Osborn) - Bounty Hunter (Fighter DnDNext): DnD presents The Walking Dead @Play By Post Forum. Player (Shana Zorus) - Professional Bodyguard/Adventurer (Hybrid Warden/Paladin 4e): The Unhallowed Gate @Play By Post Haven Forum (DM by ffShadow) Player (Krist Breeze) - Twiceborn War Mage/Imbuer (Hybrid Warlord/Wizard 4e): Castle Greyhawk - @Real Adventures (DM by Icanus) Player (Blyne Munro) - Happy-Go-Lucky Scout/Explorer (Warlock 4e) Domain of Shadows-Darkness Falls - Play By Post Haven (DM by WhisperMagellan) Player (Ansmril) - Vistani Blessed Psalmist (Bard/Shaman 4e) The Dragon Below Can't Have It This Good - (And I'm The DM) DM - The Young Mercenaries/Ps'V-GoodShip Drow Diplomacy. DM - The Unlikely Diplomats/Ps'V- GoodShip Drow Diplomacy. DM - The Dragon Below Can't Have It This Good/Ps'V GoodShip Diplomacy. Referee - People Of Oz @Dorothy's Kansas Games(inactive). Oz League: The Ardent Lord w/People Of Oz @Dorothy's Kansas Games(inactive). Ps'V = The Players' Vault Forum Group In Which I'm The Owner Of.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

WWWAAAAHHHH!! WWWAAAAHHHH!!!

WHERE IS THE STUFFF, AHHHWWWAAHHH!!!! WHERE IN THE DND'S CHARACTER'S BUILDER IS OUR DRAGON'S ISSUES STUFF???

ISSUE #421 ISN'T IN THE CHARACTER BUILDER!!

WWWWAAAHHH!!! WAAAHHH!!!!

My DM wants me to type-in my Spellscarred Dragonborn Cavalier who supposed to grow wings and start spitting up acidic saliva as a red-homebrew-made Character sheet because the new Draconian Options for dragonborns that was published in the Dragon Issue #421 haven't been updated into the CB on it's expected well-known and long practiced waiting duration schedule by the Wizard's Magazines and the Wizards' Character Builder connection.

(Do you guys know how tacky that red house square symbol looks on a character in any of the Keep of The Shadowfell Adventures?)

WWWAAAHHHHH!!! I CAN'T DO THAT. I WON'T DO THAT!!! (I don't even know how to do that... )

WHERE DID THE SUPER-ASTUTE WIZARD THAT WAS OVERSEEING ALL THOSE OTHER SUPER-COOL WIZARDS KEEPING THE BIG CB UP-TO-DATE WITH THE DRAGON MAGAZINE'S INFO ON A BELOVED AND APPRECIATED SCHEDULE UNTIL THIS YEAR?

I WANT TO BUY HIM A DRINK OR SEND HER FLOWERS OR JUST KISS UP IF THIS WILL GET THE big CB'S UPDATES BACK ON ITS WELL-APPRECIATED SCHEDULE WHICH UNTIL RECENTLY WAS DONE WITH AN ALWAYS ADMIRABLE PROFESSIONALISM!!

So, please, pretty please Mr. Super-Astute Wizard of the past exemplar of professionalism dedication, I beg of thee, to take part in some old fashion advising and light a nice warm one under whomever shouldn't be making and keeping your contented Insider's Account clients on threads like this, from carrying on with such a gross, faugh demeanor of the fulll grown child crying shamelessly?

(Well here in my case, lets call it wailing over a little thing like the month to month updates to our "Big CB" )     

Well thank you; all of you, for this place where us DnD Insiders' can voice our concerns with the always enjoyable hobby that we together love playing.

Thank you, Signed VoyRager.

Paolo Marcucci "Building better worlds"
we are quickly getting to the 4 month mark of no updates, looks like im going to hero lab. One off payment yes please. i will just keep my sub so i cant get all the content then toodle pip insider.
Indeed. What a despicable "PR" job here, WotC. Guess what: a lot more people are leaving to PaizoLand. And no one else but yourselves are to blame. Good luck with "D&D Forever" in 2018.
So any idea when the update in June will be? im in the "its not going to happen this month" boat.
This really is getting ridiculous, I wish they would just update, even if they think it isn't much to add just so that I feel like the money I am giving them isn't for nothing! It has been MONTHS now and no update. I can appreciate that they have much to do with the con coming up and the DND Next being updated but it is long past due now. Please update!
Trevor did say that there would be an update this month (June), but he gave no exact date or any further information.  Since the regular monthly updates were on the third Tuesday of each month through this past February, I would not become concerned until and unless June 18th comes and goes with no further news.