Javelin Throwing Rogue? 3.5

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I've been thinking about making a dagger/caltrops/javalin(Or something) throwing rogue for a while and I had a few questions.

First off we are playing 3.5 with base races and classes.

1: I understand that you can use your strength bonus to thrown weapons (Other than splash damage weapons) so if I went with a rogue would I want strength to be relatively high? Or should I just focus on hitting?

2: What race would you recommend for this idea? Halfling/gnome/elf is where I'm thinking although the Halfling gets a +1 to thrown weapons as well as +4 to hide for being small but he gets a -2 to Strength (If I remember right) also does his size modifier also limit his throwing distance? 

 3: Which weapon should I try and use? I'm being told I should go for Javalin since it has the longest range increment and highest damage for the thrown simple weapons. 

Also if you have any other suggestions or ideas please share them

Thanks in advance!
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1: I understand that you can use your strength bonus to thrown weapons (Other than splash damage weapons) so if I went with a rogue would I want strength to be relatively high? Or should I just focus on hitting?


Depends on what you are trying to achieve.  Rogues favor dexterity (along with the Weapon Finesse feat) because it synergizes best with their class.  A high dex gives them initiative, AC to help offset their fragility, bonuses to all the stereotypical roguish skills (Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, etc), and, particularly important in your case, bonus to ranged attack rolls.  And since rogues usually get most of their damage from Sneak Attack, the lack of strength does not hinder them much.  Also, dexterity

Focusing on strength will likely come at the expense of dexterity.  That's not entirely a bad thing.  But it will mean that you will have to build your rogue differently, and you'll want to make sure you take as much as advantage of your higher strength as possible.  For example, you'll definitely want to take Brutal Throw so you can use Str instead of Dex for attack rolls with thrown weapons.  A high strength also means you are less dependent on Sneak Attack as your primary source of damage, so you have the option to capitalize on that if you wish.

Though I think most roguish throwing build still focus on dex and creating sneak attack opportunities.


2: What race would you recommend for this idea? Halfling/gnome/elf is where I'm thinking although the Halfling gets a +1 to thrown weapons as well as +4 to hide for being small but he gets a -2 to Strength (If I remember right) also does his size modifier also limit his throwing distance?



Human is always a good choice thanks to their bonus feat.  Going against the grain of a class usually means you have to take a few feats to compensate.  Beyond that, any race with a stat bonus in dex or str would not be bad choices.

Being small does not affect weapon range, but it will affect weapon damage.  Though I wouldn't let that be a deterrent sense you usually only lose out on one point of weapon damage on average. The bulk of your damage will likely come from static damage modifiers and bonus damage from abilities like Sneak Attack.

3: Which weapon should I try and use? I'm being told I should go for Javalin since it has the longest range increment and highest damage for the thrown simple weapons.



Javelins are definitely a good choice.  However, they're not melee weapons.  So if you have any intention of mixing it up both close up and at range, you'll want to consider a weapon that can do both.  Both the Spear and Shortspear are decent melee weapons and still have pretty good range. 

Though there are a few ways to make any weapon throwable, which opens your options quite a bit.  The Throwing enchantment is the most obvious path.  So you could have, for example, a throwable Greatsword.  Granted, rogues don't get many weapon proficiencies, but there are tons of ways to remedy that.

Also if you have any other suggestions or ideas please share them


The Bloodstorm Blade prestige class in the Tome of Battle is a great option for weapon throwers.  It's more geared towards strength-based, fighter-like builds and doesn't do much to progress your Rouge skills and abilities, but it has some nifty abilities such as Thunderous Throw which, among other benefits, would allow you to apply Power Attack to your ranged attacks.
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1 - A high str is important, but most of your damage will come from sneak attack. I'd put str as your number 2 stat. Dex > Str > Con > Int = Cha > Wis


2 - I vote halfling. Human is nice for the bonus feat as throwing is pretty feat intensive, but the halfling has some really nice rogue bonuses. Size does not limit throwing distance.


3 - Do daggers for a couple of reasons. 1) you can swap between melee and ranged without changing weapons. 2) More prevalent in most campaign settings. Magic ones are super common. 3) double down on feats. Weapon focus applies to your ranged and melee attacks. ---- The javalins d6 vs d4 damage won't matter much, because your damage comes from sneak attack. 


If you can get brutal throw take that, and swap str for dex in my stat order. It would also open up options like Orc rogue who throws daggers super hard which could be fun.

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1 - A high str is important, but most of your damage will come from sneak attack. I'd put str as your number 2 stat. Dex > Str > Con > Int = Cha > Wis


2 - I vote halfling. Human is nice for the bonus feat as throwing is pretty feat intensive, but the halfling has some really nice rogue bonuses. Size does not limit throwing distance.


3 - Do daggers for a couple of reasons. 1) you can swap between melee and ranged without changing weapons. 2) More prevalent in most campaign settings. Magic ones are super common. 3) double down on feats. Weapon focus applies to your ranged and melee attacks. ---- The javalins d6 vs d4 damage won't matter much, because your damage comes from sneak attack. 


If you can get brutal throw take that, and swap str for dex in my stat order. It would also open up options like Orc rogue who throws daggers super hard which could be fun.



Something to note - in 3.5e halflings are small sized and therefore have to use small sized weapons so they do less damage.  Not that big a deal since most of your damage will come from sneak attack which is not affected by size.  But just for complete disclosure - small daggers do 1d3 and small javelins do 1d4.

 

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Please remember that magic weapons in 3.5 do not return unless it is of returning.  So once you throw that +4 javelin, you will be down to a normal one for purposes of overcoming things like damage reduction.  And while you probably will have more than 1 magic javelin at that time, you still wont have enough of a supply.

Also, you aren't going to be able to sneak attack as often because of it being a thrown weapon.

Also, you aren't going to be able to sneak attack as often because of it being a thrown weapon.



How come? I thought sneak attacks didn't work with ranged unless it was within 30 feet. I think daggers have about a 10 foot throwing distance but Javelins have 30.
Is it because it's just a lot harder to do thrown weapon sneak attacks?

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3.5 RAW says...

Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Basically, the rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target...

That being said, you cannot flank with a ranged weapon, so that does cut into the sneak attack potential.

 

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Are you really "entitled to your opinion"?
RedSiegfried wrote:
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Ahh I get it now.

I think I'm also trying to focus on thrown weapons with halflings just because they get the +1 bonus.

Maybe I'll go with a sneaky melee type elf rogue? 
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Why so focused on that racial mod?
Grab a Human.  Extra Feat, more skill points for your skill points.

I agree with melee though.
Why so focused on that racial mod?



Take a look at his name, Cliff ;)


Either way, being a melee-based Rogue doesn't preclude you from carrying some ranged weaponry, especially since it's really tough to keep your sneak attack open after your first attack (hiding after a ranged sneak attack is a -20 penalty).  Your best course of action is to tag them from a distance (possibly with a ranged weapon that isn't thrown, since they've got a better range and similar damage), then make your way into melee and flanking position with someone that can take a hit.

As for race, I'd look at either Human (free extra feat and extra skill points), Dwarf (quite a few nice Rogue-like helpers), Elf (free weapon proficiencies and boosts to scouting skills), or Gnome (mostly for the boosts to Listen and Craft (alchemy)).
1: I understand that you can use your strength bonus to thrown weapons (Other than splash damage weapons) so if I went with a rogue would I want strength to be relatively high? Or should I just focus on hitting?



It doesn't hurt, but on the other hand Dex is far more important, for AC, Rogue Skills, Reflex saves, and Initiative. Also their is a feat that allows you to use your Dexterity for attack for many weapons. Also, since you will primarily use 1-handed weapons you won't get as much a damage return from Strength as say, a fighter with a great sword. I would focus on Dex, with the feat to use Dex for attack to make up for your lower base attack. Rely on Sneak attack for your damage.
 
2: What race would you recommend for this idea? Halfling/gnome/elf is where I'm thinking although the Halfling gets a +1 to thrown weapons as well as +4 to hide for being small but he gets a -2 to Strength (If I remember right) also does his size modifier also limit his throwing distance?



I don't like the -2 strength for the small characters, as well you have to deal with small weapons, which combined is a reduction in your attack/damage that I don't like, but that is me personally. Also the 20 move is bad, robably the worse part of a rogue hafling, since this will effect your ability to move
about the battle field
 
I like Humans, for the extra feat and the skill points, even though a rogue gets alot of skill points, the more the merrier I say since a Rogue is the skill workhorse of the game, Tumble, Spot, Search, UMD, Bluff, Sneak.....

Elf is also a good choice, imo, +2 Dex, You gain a bonus to Search, listen and spot, low light vision (useful for sneaking and searching for traps in a dungeon if you can see where you are going) the -2 Con is bad, but imo not as bad as -2 strength. Also normal move of 30 and medium weapons.

 
3: Which weapon should I try and use? I'm being told I should go for Javalin since it has the longest range increment and highest damage for the thrown simple weapons. 



Your sneak attack is what will be the most damage you do, so range isn't as important as being within 30 feet of the target. Javalin isn't bad because of the 30 foot base range, however consider you take a -4 if used as a melee weapon. I am more in favour of 1 handed weapons for range attacks, since you can still hold one to a melee weapon (like a rapier) to be armed if attacked toe to toe. a bandolier of knives, quick draw, and a knife in the off hand and the rapier in the main hand allows you to be armed for dirrect melee while still being able to attack at range.

But you should go with what you like best, imo it is all good.     

Also if you have any other suggestions or ideas please share them

Thanks in advance!



I would choose race and weapon style for asthetics over functionality, imo, you should make a character concept that you like, roleplaying over min/max,
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