Geases: 3.5 Character Concept

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I'm looking to step outside my comfort zone a bit here for an upcoming campaign.  My typical charachter is a rogue type and NE.  I generally just prefer the flexibility from a rouge and the freedom the being NE gives, but unfortunately the guys i play with end up seeing my characters a as jackholes, instead of self serving pragmatists.  i'd like to play someone who's still pragmatic, but doesn't come off as negative.


The concept I've been playing with is making a LN fighter type who is bound by several Geasa in the tradtional sense, and not as per the spell.  In celtic mytyhology a geas was a vow that brought about power for a specific action or abstinance that had to be followed.  If it wasn't the penalty for it could be as as severe as death.  The wikipedia page found here


Would there be a good, non gamebreaking, way for me to gain power/penalties for this without having to beuild a class from the ground up?  i have access to most of the rule books so if I can get a suggestion from one of those as well it would be appreciated.


Sugestions for the Geasa would be appreciated as well.  The primary Geas I'm thinking of is that he cannot draw his blade against anyone until they have attacked him first.    
Book of Exalted deeds and their Exalted feats (and Exalted Feats from other sources), more specifically the Vows but more or less all of them work. In your position, ask if you can get some of them as bonus feats since they tend to be feats around making pledges rather than on learning things or training.
WotC already has a spellcasting class like this. Look up the Wu Jen and its taboos in CArc. Then apply it to a melee character.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Ok thanks i'll take a look at those source books and see what i can come up with.
WotC already has a spellcasting class like this. Look up the Wu Jen and its taboos in CArc. Then apply it to a melee character.

Dude! Jade Phoenix Wu Jen kick so much ass in melee, it's awesome. Don't waste your time on a "melee" character, Gishes are the way to go here.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
WotC already has a spellcasting class like this. Look up the Wu Jen and its taboos in CArc. Then apply it to a melee character.

Dude! Jade Phoenix Wu Jen kick so much ass in melee, it's awesome. Don't waste your time on a "melee" character, Gishes are the way to go here.




Gishes?  Also looking at the Wu Jen gave me some ideas for building a martial variant.  I'm using the fighter for the base right now, but that may end up changing.  I haven't decided if I want this class to have any caster ability yet. 
Gishes?

Basically a warrior-mage of some sort; the name comes from the githyanki's fighter/wizards.

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Gishes?

A Gish is a spellcaster that uses its spells to kick ass in melee. The gold standard build is Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8, as it gives you CHA SAD, Turn Undead, and 16 BAB.
Also looking at the Wu Jen gave me some ideas for building a martial variant.  I'm using the fighter for the base right now, but that may end up changing.

Don't. Fighter is a trap. Get Tome of Battle.
I haven't decided if I want this class to have any caster ability yet. 

You should. Melee doesn't get nice things. It's pretty much as much of a rule as Druids don't get a feat at level 6.

The Jade Wu Jen is a Swordsage(Though this can be avoided)/Wu Jen/Jade Phoenix Mage. It really shines at 9s, because the JPM ability that lets you avoid the instadeath affect of Transcend Mortality, so it lets you stomp hard. Of course, it's not as much of a melee monster as a Sorcadin until then, but prepped casters are kickass and it has maneuvers, so it works out. 
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
I've decided how I'm going to be doing this.  I'm going to use Geasa similar to bonus feat.  Each Geas will confer certain bonuses but at the cost of a restriction.  I'm thinking first level, second level and everl other ever other level there afterI'll have them take an additional geas for more power.


Also looking at most of the other base classes, and wanting to maintain versatility, I've decided to add in caster ability.  I'll add it at 4th level like most hybrid classes.  I'm wanting to give the player a choice between divine or arcane casting for their geas at that level.
That's not quite true, but you are going about it backwards. Casting starts at level 1, and you stop at 6th-level spells. Look at the Psychic Warrior, Beguiler, and Duskblade for half-casters done well.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I've removed content from this thread. Trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct.

You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct

Remember to keep your posts polite and on topic and refrain from making personal attacks or remarks. 

Saying half-casters aren't very good is trolling/baiting? The **** is this, DDN?!
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
That's not quite true, but you are going about it backwards. Casting starts at level 1, and you stop at 6th-level spells. Look at the Psychic Warrior, Beguiler, and Duskblade for half-casters done well.



for a half caster that focuses on magic, but classes like the ranger, paladin, and hexblade that use it as a support start casting at level 4 and only utilize 4th level spells 

And they usually aren't used for their casting. I know of very few builds that actually stay in ranger or paladin long enough to use their spells; it's often taken just for the ability to use wands of CLW.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Perhaps, but as noted, I'm not trying to make a caster class.  I'm making a melee class, and I'm adding in some magic support.
Again, look at the PsyWar & Duskblade for examples of that having been done well. PsyWar20 isn't all that uncommon (and Monk2/PsyWar18 is common), while most people take the Duskblade to level 5 or 13 before entering a PrC. Ranger & Paladin are often taken for 2 levels, and never heard from again.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Shhh!!  Multiclassing is trolling!

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[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

@OP: Seriously, you're making it more complicated than it is. Why not just decide what you want your character to be capable of, then choose the class(es) that allow you to do that? Then you ROLEPLAY your character's geasa, and (for example) add a new one every time you enter a new class. If you break a geas, you lose that class's abilities for the day (like the Wu Jen would). Simple, no?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls