New player struggling with deck

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Hi I recently got into Magic the Gathering via the Magic the Gathering Deck Builders Toolkit 2013. However I'm struggling with the red and black deck I've made. I've played a couple of matches and I've lost every single one. The rest of everyone in the rest of the local game society seems to have vastly more powerful decks which I just can't compete with.

I using a mix of black and red cards mainly using creatures around causing damage to the enemy in the hope of wearing away lifepoints. I have a vampire theme going on.
  
I don't know if its just my deck or my skill level at the moment but here a break down I've posted up.  

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/first-deck-18-03... 

If you are new to the game playing against people who arent then you cant really expect to win very often, if at all. Deckbuilding and playing both reward experience, and right now you just dont have it (yet). The more you play, the better you will get.

That said, a good deck will help you. One of the main problems I see with your deck is that it is made up of lots of different cards, so it wont be very consistent. Your mana base could also use some work (why is there a Clifftop Retreat in there if you dont play any white cards?). 

Take the 9 best cards in deck and run 4 copies of them, run 24 lands (at least to start off with - experience using the deck will tell you if you can get away with less). Something like this:


Swap the Blood Crypts for Rakdos Guildgates if budget is a concern. Add Cavern of Souls if you have lots of counterspells in your meta, and Ghost Quarter if you are struggling against decks using non-basic lands. Not everyone will rate Stensia Bloodhall, but I like it (it gives you some extra gas later in the game, and it helps against Planeswalkers too). Olivia Voldaren would make a good addition to the deck if you can get her.

Hope that helps

~ Tim   
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Hi I recently got into Magic the Gathering via the Magic the Gathering Deck Builders Toolkit 2013. However I'm struggling with the red and black deck I've made. I've played a couple of matches and I've lost every single one. The rest of everyone in the rest of the local game society seems to have vastly more powerful decks which I just can't compete with.

I using a mix of black and red cards mainly using creatures around causing damage to the enemy in the hope of wearing away lifepoints. I have a vampire theme going on.
  
I don't know if its just my deck or my skill level at the moment but here a break down I've posted up.  

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/first-deck-18-03... 

First thing I notice is the Scroll of Avacyn, sure you can pay two mana total to draw one card, but for the second effect there is no Angel to take advantage of the life gaining, my gut would tell me to take this one out and add a Dark Favor to make your creatures bigger.

Also the Bladed Bracer's you have no Humans, or Angels as creatures to take advantage of it fully.  This artifact isn't bad Darksteel Axe  and other enchantments on the cheap Unholy Strength

And some of your midrange cards I believe are a bit costly for what they do, I notice a lot of casting cost 4 creatures and their abilities aren't all that fantastic, enough to do a bit of damage here/there.  A card that might substitue your Falkreath Noble might be Blood Seeker it costs half as much, and sorta does the same thing, and its a Vamp to boot.

Also another cheap Vamp to keep in mind Child of Night your casting cost three creatures are decent, and I'm a "kill creature" guy so I'd add two more murders, dump the Victims of Night, because for one more mana you can get rid of any creature.

Just some suggestions, not bad looking though, keep up the good work.  And one thing I almost tell everyone, with red/black decks you don't have the ability to get rid of enchantments, if someone busts out a color screwing enchantment(like say Light of Day you can't get rid of it, just be wary of folks who use a lot of enchantments.
In time they will join you in the Sun-Man of Steel

If you are new to the game playing against people who arent then you cant really expect to win very often, if at all. Deckbuilding and playing both reward experience, and right now you just dont have it (yet). The more you play, the better you will get.

That said, a good deck will help you. One of the main problems I see with your deck is that it is made up of lots of different cards, so it wont be very consistent. Your mana base could also use some work (why is there a Clifftop Retreat in there if you dont play any white cards?). 

Take the 9 best cards in deck and run 4 copies of them, run 24 lands (at least to start off with - experience using the deck will tell you if you can get away with less). Something like this:


Swap the Blood Crypts for Rakdos Guildgates if budget is a concern. Add Cavern of Souls if you have lots of counterspells in your meta, and Ghost Quarter if you are struggling against decks using non-basic lands. Not everyone will rate Stensia Bloodhall, but I like it (it gives you some extra gas later in the game, and it helps against Planeswalkers too). Olivia Voldaren would make a good addition to the deck if you can get her.

Hope that helps

~ Tim   

Great suggestions
In time they will join you in the Sun-Man of Steel
Thanks.

You might have a point about Falkenrath Noble. Maybe drop them down to 2 copies and add 2 Blood Artist?  

~ Tim 
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Thanks.

You might have a point about Falkenrath Noble. Maybe drop them down to 2 copies and add 2 Blood Artist?  

~ Tim 

Yeah, that would work, and most of the cards we are talking about are relatively cheap, or common. 

My vamp deck is similar to what you've posted but I added green for naturalize, and abundant growths. I also have Baron Sengir and a few Sengir Vampire and a Skyshroud Vampire
In time they will join you in the Sun-Man of Steel
Thanks.

You might have a point about Falkenrath Noble. Maybe drop them down to 2 copies and add 2 Blood Artist?  

~ Tim 

Yeah, that would work, and most of the cards we are talking about are relatively cheap, or common. 

My vamp deck is similar to what you've posted but I added green for naturalize, and abundant growths. I also have Baron Sengir and a few Sengir Vampire and a Skyshroud Vampire

Forgot to add Dark Ritual and a new vamp I got last year Vampire Nocturnus  that nocturnus one is a mythic rare, but I have no idea how much its worth, I"ve seen MR's worth a few bucks to 20$, so google is your friend on the pricing of that one.
In time they will join you in the Sun-Man of Steel
So the only way to build up my deck into something useable is either to spend hundreds of pounds sorting through random boaster packs or to use cards from older editions that I can't buy anymore?


If'd know about this then I might not have bothered trying to get into this game.  
So the only way to build up my deck into something useable is either to spend hundreds of pounds sorting through random boaster packs or to use cards from older editions that I can't buy anymore?


If'd know about this then I might not have bothered trying to get into this game.  


All the cards I mentioned were current, so Im not sure where you get that idea from. Plus pretty much any card ever printed is available to buy (or trade) either from friends, game stores or online. 

Apart from the Blood Crypts the deck I posted should be pretty "budget", too. Mostly commons and uncommons, and rares that have been printed more than once. 

~ Tim

  
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
buying boosters to get cards is generally a bad idea
you are much better off buying the cards you need
proud member of the 2011 community team
So the only way to build up my deck into something useable is either to spend hundreds of pounds sorting through random boaster packs or to use cards from older editions that I can't buy anymore?

As already mentioned, do not buy booster packs unless you get entertainment value from opening up the boosters. Buy (or trade for) the cards you need. There are game stores that sell individual cards and there are online stores that sell cards (not sure about the U.K. though, which is where I deduce you are located).

You can use cards from old editions. If you play standard format, cards from the following editions can be used:

Core Set
Magic 2013

Innistrad Block
Innistrad
Dark Ascension
Avacyn Restored

Return to Ravnica Block
Return to Ravnica
Gatecrash
Dragon's Maze (to be released May 3)

If'd know about this then I might not have bothered trying to get into this game.

Magic is a complex but rewarding game. You do not become a champion deck builder overnight. From your card list, it is clear that there are some basic concepts that you need add to your skills as a deck builder and player, which you will do if you accept that you will lose a number of games in the beginning.

For starters, I would read the following articles:

Building Your First Deck

Magic the Classroom: The Rule of Nine

Also, you can study other players' deck lists, not so much to copy them (although that's fine too), but to learn what a well designed deck looks like.

Having said all of this, Magic the Gathering can be a fairly expensive hobby. Unfortunately, prices are much higher in Europe than in the U.S. due to Wizard's export controls (which I believe violate international trade regulations, but that's a different story). 
So the only way to build up my deck into something useable is either to spend hundreds of pounds sorting through random boaster packs or to use cards from older editions that I can't buy anymore?


If'd know about this then I might not have bothered trying to get into this game.  

Most of the cards that we recommend were common/uncommon with a handful of rare's, almost all of the vampires in my my vamp deck are common/uncommon except the ones I mention, 3 Sengir Vamps, 1 Vamp Nocturnis and 1 Baron Sengir, the rest are Vamps I got from 12, 13th edition and Innistrad which I belive are magic expansions sets from the past two years or so, and should be relatively easy to get.  Murder is a common from 13th edition, granted I can't recall the last set Unholy Strength was from, but it shouldn't be worth more than a buck, of all the cards mentioned by me, I believe the most expensive ones are Baron(which on Amazon is just under 5 bucks), and Vampire Nocturnus(also under 5 at Amazon).  Dark rituals might be hard to come by, as I had to order my last set of 12 offline, but they were about 75 cents a piece. 

The cost shouldn't be that much, not sure where the frustration is coming from, but its not as daunting as it appears.
In time they will join you in the Sun-Man of Steel
I know it can be difficult at first (just starting after a 15 year break and just as lost) If you don't want to spend a ton of money and are having troubles with deck building,  I can honestly recomend getting a event deck.  I know you can build a better deck but atleast they are put together to work well.  It really helped me when I started back up.  I could atleast be in the game, I may not have won alot but I wasn't always getting stomped on.  I also did luck out a win or two with a good shuffle and draw.  You can read how to play each event deck and how the cards work together right on the site to see what suits how you want to play.   You can usually improve the event decks considerbly by just adding a few small pieces that can be obtained through trade or single card purchase.  The book that comes with the deck will also list some cards that insert well.  (you might even have them already in your deck builders box.  

The wrack and rage deck is black red if that is what your going for.  Not sure what there worth over there but I paid 25 each for my two event decks.

www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/productarticle...

Take my advice with a grain of salt as I just started again and my head is spinning aswell.  

Jason 
The cost shouldn't be that much, not sure where the frustration is coming from, but its not as daunting as it appears.

He mentions spending "hundreds of pounds", which means he's presumably in the U.K. If you have not seen what Magic the Gathering sells for in Europe, you're in for a shock. Everything is about twice as expensive. For example, I see the Gatecrash fat pack on sale on amazon.co.uk for £41.50, which is ~$63. So there is that.

More importantly, depending on what kind of expectations you have I bet it can be frustrating to walk into a store event or game club as a beginner. The Deckbuilder's Toolkit is marketed as a complete package for the new player, cards, lands, strategy guide, so you might expect that you can build a decent deck out of it and win at least some games. However, it's too much of a scattering of cards to build anything other than just a scattering of cards. Magic is a competitve game: Even a casual FNM will have relatively competitive decks. So the key is to have reasonable expectations, a strong willingness to learn, and an acceptance that it is not the cheapest hobby in the world. Then it can become an exceedingly rewarding hobby. There is a reason we're so addicted to it we're willing to buy a single card that costs more than a fancy meal at a restaurant.


The cost shouldn't be that much, not sure where the frustration is coming from, but its not as daunting as it appears.




Perhaps I should explain my experience with the game so far. Have played three games, all of which I had no real chance of winning. All played with my Black/Red Vampire deck

First battle: Opponent with blue/green deck wins by using cards to play large ammounts of land, the uses more to reverse the empty deck lose game rule and then uses another card to discard all but one card in his deck. Then is able to win in his next round before I was really ready to do anything.

Second Battle: Opponent with White/black deck wins with poison counters and forcing me to discard cards. Was able to destroy the infect creature but he was able to return it from the graveyard in the same round that I destroyed it.

Third Battle: The only one which I actually felt like I had a chance. Opponent had a Black/Red deck like me. However I kept drawing useless lands while she was able to wittle down my life with an unbloackable 1 damage creature to 1 point. Then as I keep drawing lands she moved to spawn a large number of rare creatures, she then killed me with a 32 point attack.

So that is my experience of the game so far. Massive spamming of rare or legendary cards while I struggle not to draw lands all the time. Now you see why I'm so disappointed in this game.
So that is my experience of the game so far. Massive spamming of rare or legendary cards while I struggle not to draw lands all the time. Now you see why I'm so disappointed in this game.


If you want to level the playing field a bit, you can try Limited (Draft, Sealed etc). You all build your decks out of the cards you get from packs on the day, so having money doesnt help you win (OK, it means you get more chances to play so you get more practice and more experience, but that is always the case).

Failing that, just play more, and gradually improve your deck.

You cant really expect to start winning straight away. If anyone could walk in and immediately become good overnight, where would the appeal be to stay?

~ Tim
EDIT: if you are running 24+ lands but not drawing enough you either arent shuffling well enough, you are very unlucky, you are keeping bad hands, or you are trying to play cards that cost too much mana. Practice shuffling, use sleeves. Keep playing with the deck so you learn which hands to keep and which to mulligan. If the problem is drawing the wrong lands, then work on your mana base (or switch to a mono-colored deck).
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
the best way to deal with expensive decks is still RDW
a cheap aggressive burn deck can consistently win on turn3-4 and your opponents cry with their mythics uncast in their hands

you also don't have to worry too much about mana screw with a deck like that, 2-3 lands is all you'll ever need
proud member of the 2011 community team

~ Tim
EDIT: if you are running 24+ lands but not drawing enough you either arent shuffling well enough, you are very unlucky, you are keeping bad hands, or you are trying to play cards that cost too much mana. Practice shuffling, use sleeves. Keep playing with the deck so you learn which hands to keep and which to mulligan. If the problem is drawing the wrong lands, then work on your mana base (or switch to a mono-colored deck).




Um, no my problem was that I only drawing lands instead of creatures. So while I had a good mix of lands, I couldn't do anything with them.  

So the only way to build up my deck into something useable is either to spend hundreds of pounds sorting through random boaster packs or to use cards from older editions that I can't buy anymore?


If'd know about this then I might not have bothered trying to get into this game.  




You can definitely get competitive cards at decent prices. LMTRK's selections were spot on. Sure, Olivia Voldaren goes for $20 (don't know what that is in euros or pounds) but cards like Vampire Nighthawk is a staple card in any vamp deck and they can't be too much money. You should be able to build a fast, cheap deck that performs well. Don't give up because more experienced players have beat you. Instead, try to look at the cards/strategies they use and learn from them. Best of luck

EDH decks I play:

 

Prossh: http://community.wizards.com/forum/commander-edh/threads/4101381

 

Derevi: http://community.wizards.com/forum/commander-edh/threads/4115936

 

Kaalia (the beats)

 

Zur (disgusting combo)

 

Damia (Bug Elf deck)

 

Numot (Stax)

 

Norin (Mono Red Suicide)

 

Ghave (Uber combo)

 

Muzzio (Oops, Blightsteel)

Um, no my problem was that I only drawing lands instead of creatures. So while I had a good mix of lands, I couldn't do anything with them.  


Sorry, I misread.

OK, well if you are drawing too many lands, then put less in your deck. ;)

You are running 3 more cards than you should be (63 instead of 60), to include at least 4 more lands than you should have (28 instead of 24). One of the lands you are using doesnt even make the right colors to be in your deck!

Plus you are running pointless cards like Scroll of Avacyn (in a non-Angel deck) and Ghoulcaller's Bell (in a non-mill deck) that are going to waste some of your draws too.

Just replacing those 6 cards alone with 3 more (good) creatures would improve your experience of using the deck. (lots of shuffling using sleeves helps too) 

Compare your deck to the one I suggested on the first page of the thread. Instead of listing everything you did wrong I tried to show you a better way of doing it so you could see what works... but before you try to blame the game you need to take responsibilities for your own mistakes.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Second Battle: Opponent with White/black deck wins with poison counters and forcing me to discard cards. Was able to destroy the infect creature but he was able to return it from the graveyard in the same round that I destroyed it.

Poison/infect is no longer in standard. Do you know what format they are playing? It's hard to give advice without knowing the format.

You'd probably be better off if you can find people willing to play standard, as it will even things out for you quite a bit in terms of acquiring cards.

Now you see why I'm so disappointed in this game.

Even the best deck design will have problems with too many or too few lands at times, but this will even out in the long run. In your deck, you should probably have 60 cards, of which 23 should be land. They need to have the right balance between black and red mana sources, depending on which cards you end up with.

This is something I taught my daughter: "Magic is one-third deck design, one-third player skills, and one-third luck. The luck will even out over time." Right now you are playing against opponents who both have bad decks and who are much more experienced than you. Work on those two things, and don't worry so much about the games where you drew nothing but land.

Is there anyone in that group who is willing to mentor and teach a new player? It sounds like you are getting a harsh introduction. At my store, it's not uncommon for new players to be given free advice, pointers on their decks, or even receive cards, etc.

Second Battle: Opponent with White/black deck wins with poison counters and forcing me to discard cards. Was able to destroy the infect creature but he was able to return it from the graveyard in the same round that I destroyed it.

Poison/infect is no longer in standard. Do you know what format they are playing? It's hard to give advice without knowing the format.

You'd probably be better off if you can find people willing to play standard, as it will even things out for you quite a bit in terms of acquiring cards.




Vintage verses modern is how he called it. Personally I feel I suspect he knew that I was new and when for his best deck for an easy win.
Vintage verses modern is how he called it. Personally I feel I suspect he knew that I was new and when for his best deck for an easy win.


I fear you were being trolled.

Playing a Vintage deck against a Modern deck (especially since even though your deck is Modern legal, it is actually a Standard deck) is like trying to win a motorbike race on a pedal bike.

Maybe they were just having a laugh at your expense, maybe they are clueless and have no social skills, or maybe they didnt realise just how new they were. Either ask them to tone it down and play a comparable deck to yours, or find someone else to play.

Or try Limited.

~ Tim   
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Vintage verses modern is how he called it. Personally I feel I suspect he knew that I was new and when for his best deck for an easy win.

We were not there and it's hard for us to judge, but there are definitely groups that are not friendly to beginners. I may be misjudging, but if this is the case, then that is unfortunate and harmful in the long run, since the game needs new players to keep it growing. If you don't feel welcomed in the group, try to find another group. It took me three or four stores before I found one that I feel at home in, largely because the players and store workers are so friendly.

Vintage verses modern is how he called it. Personally I feel I suspect he knew that I was new and when for his best deck for an easy win.

We were not there and it's hard for us to judge, but there are definitely groups that are not friendly to beginners. I may be misjudging, but if this is the case, then that is unfortunate and harmful in the long run, since the game needs new players to keep it growing. If you don't feel welcomed in the group, try to find another group. It took me three or four stores before I found one that I feel at home in, largely because the players and store workers are so friendly.





This isn't a store, this is the Magic the Gathering section of my University's games society. And anyway its a bit difficult to get to any places that sell MTG physically being at the edge of london so the only really practical option is to go into central london. This all means my only available opponents are all die-hard collectors with multiple decks and trading collections.   

This isn't a store, this is the Magic the Gathering section of my University's games society. And anyway its a bit difficult to get to any places that sell MTG physically being at the edge of london so the only really practical option is to go into central london. This all means my only available opponents are all die-hard collectors with multiple decks and trading collections.   


Have you tried the Wizards Event Locator on the main site?

And why not ask them if they like to draft? If you all get together and buy a booster box between you, it will work out cheaper than drafting at a store.

~ Tim   
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
This isn't a store, this is the Magic the Gathering section of my University's games society.

Where do they buy their cards?

This all means my only available opponents are all die-hard collectors with multiple decks and trading collections.

Being a "die-hard" colletor should not exclude being welcoming to beginners. One of the guys at my store who is most generous with advice and friendliest to new players is also the one I believe has most competitive experience. Last time he sat down with a young player, went through his deck, gave out pointers, and I think he even bought him some cards to make the deck better.

Another option, of course, is Magic Online.
This isn't a store, this is the Magic the Gathering section of my University's games society.

Where do they buy their cards?



Online ordering, trading and the trainline directly into central london with a major game shop near by. 
Online ordering, trading and the trainline directly into central london with a major game shop near by. 

OK, so once you have a deck design you're happy with, those are some options to get cards, instead of buying booster packs. Assuming you're going back, you need to find out what format to play. See if they play standard at all or, as suggested, booster draft.

Or just bite the bullet and jump on the train and find that game shop.

~ Tim 
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
The cost shouldn't be that much, not sure where the frustration is coming from, but its not as daunting as it appears.

He mentions spending "hundreds of pounds", which means he's presumably in the U.K. If you have not seen what Magic the Gathering sells for in Europe, you're in for a shock. Everything is about twice as expensive. For example, I see the Gatecrash fat pack on sale on amazon.co.uk for £41.50, which is ~$63. So there is that.

More importantly, depending on what kind of expectations you have I bet it can be frustrating to walk into a store event or game club as a beginner. The Deckbuilder's Toolkit is marketed as a complete package for the new player, cards, lands, strategy guide, so you might expect that you can build a decent deck out of it and win at least some games. However, it's too much of a scattering of cards to build anything other than just a scattering of cards. Magic is a competitve game: Even a casual FNM will have relatively competitive decks. So the key is to have reasonable expectations, a strong willingness to learn, and an acceptance that it is not the cheapest hobby in the world. Then it can become an exceedingly rewarding hobby. There is a reason we're so addicted to it we're willing to buy a single card that costs more than a fancy meal at a restaurant.

Ah, didn't catch that and I don't know anything about Magic oversea's or how their pricing is.  Too bad this guy isn't around me, I'd get him started nice, at least in a range of common/uncommon cards, I have way to many staples in some area's, I probably got 5k cards I'll never touch, because I got so many of them.  

It also sounds like his MTG folks are bringing Bazooka's to a knife fight.  Its very unfair to do that with beginners, that would be like me using my Flea Market Deck(Tolarian Academy), and Sneak Attack against my sons bears/spiders all the time.  Some Magic folks can be mean, hopefully this fellow can get around some decent MTG folks.

In time they will join you in the Sun-Man of Steel
Some Magic folks can be mean, hopefully this fellow can get around some decent MTG folks.

I didnt' mean to jump to conclusions to suggest that they are mean, but at a minimum it sounds like he is outgunned and maybe not receiving the supporting welcome a new player ideally should get.

OP: Move to the United States. We have good universities, cold beer, cheap cards, and friendly Magic players. [I say this as a transplanted European, myself].
Some Magic folks can be mean, hopefully this fellow can get around some decent MTG folks.

I didnt' mean to jump to conclusions to suggest that they are mean, but at a minimum it sounds like he is outgunned and maybe not receiving the supporting welcome a new player ideally should get.

OP: Move to the United States. We have good universities, cold beer, cheap cards, and friendly Magic players. [I say this as a transplanted European, myself].

I didn't mean, mean, I should've used unfair instead.  Sorry about that, didn't mean to mean, they are mean!    Just unfairl
In time they will join you in the Sun-Man of Steel
It might take a while, but if you're willing to put in your entire available card pool, I bet several people here would be happy to show you the deck they would build from it -- and explain why certain cards work and other cards don't.  I'd suggest posting in the Casual forums as there's lots of deck discussions going on there, most budget-minded.
Update!

I've reorganised my deck a lot and tried to strip out as much of the unecessary stuff as possible and included multiple cards.

  tappedout.net/mtg-decks/first-deck-18-03...
post the deck here
noone will bother visiting another site to help you
proud member of the 2011 community team
Deck tags havent worked.

Try

[*deck]
4 Forest
8 Mountain
4 Llanowar Elves
[/deck*]

without the *'s

~ Tim          
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
I've updated my post above and slightly improve it with some booster that I've brought.
Why Wall of Fire in an aggro deck?

Also, could you sort the cards by type, and list the total of each type and the total number of cards in the deck. That will make it easier to evaluate.

~ Tim   

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)