Humans? Everyone wants to be them, right?

Judging from what I've seen in the playtest packet, I don't see why anyone would NOT want to play a human.  Sure, being able to pretty much hide at will, have increased weapon dice from axes, or have a higher base move speed are all nifty things that some of the other races can pick up, but stacked against +1 in every stat, my group and I all feel like humans are easily the strongest, if most generic, of the races.  Thoughts?
strongest? probably*. will everyone want to be one? only if they care that much about min-maxing 

*the extra hp dwarf is a strong second 
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I think Halfing is better than Dwarf
I've had more wood elves than anything in my group, not entirely sure why.
My group currently has 2 high elves, a hill dwarf (being played more like a gully dwarf), a human, and a house-ruled longtooth shifter.  The player who chose human did so for RP purposes, not because of the mechanical advantage; he hadn't even seen the races before deciding on his PC's race.  Previously, we had a wood elf, a high elf, a human, and a mountain dwarf.  So, out of nine characters we've run, only two were human, and both were due to player preference, not the the stat boosts.  In fact, the two dwarves, the wood elf, and two of the high elves were chosen more for racial advantages than any other race.
Yes, humans are easily the strongest race right now, but I expect them to be changing it around.
strongest? probably*. will everyone want to be one? only if they care that much about min-maxing



Depends. If you have a lot of odd-numbered abilities it will make an improvement; even ones not so much unless they're something you're going to be bumping up every 4th level. The +2 to the main stat is nice, but most liked the racial bonuses (especially the weapons training) from the others.
 
Our rogue wondered why you would play as any other race besides halfling due to their weapon bonuses, same for the Elven Marksman-Fighter.  
i've found people stick with their favourite styles, from 3.5, pathfinder and ddn

so they go the dwarf/human str/con/wis builds, and only variations within that framework

or they go the elves/halflings dex/char builds, and only variations within that framework

i have noticed my players who work in customer service loathe taking humans and even avoid talking to them in game :P

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

Hi, I just finally cracked open the playtest "packet" yesterday. I for one am pleased to see the return to Human's being a superior choice. In 4e I found mechanically it was a poor choice and as a result I hardly ever saw anyone play them, it saddened me. On the other hand I was never a fan of demi-humans being level restricted either, that and Vancian magic was always the first to be house ruled.
There are several reasons not to play humans. However, none of those reasons are mechanical in nature. (Well, maybe one. Combine elf for the extra cantrip with any class/feat that gives you lots of cantrips and you have a nice variety of cantrips to pull from.)

Mechanically, you may be right. Knowing my group, they probably will do what they always do: Pick a concept then match race and class as required.

As always, your milage may vary,
Calestin Kethal
I haven't seen much change in my group's tendancies.

The people who played Humans in 4e for their advantages still do (the idea that gaining an extra feat + Heroic Effort is somehow inferior is absurd to me), and the people who prefer demihuman races still play those.

However, I do think that both a +1 to everything or a +2 to a stat of choice is a bit much and either +1 to everything or +2 to 1 is a more reasonable feature.
First, I'm going going to put aside roleplay choice for now. 

I'm of the opinion that Humans SHOULD be very versatile and be common choices for players.  I've had too many games where noone wanted to play a human because the other races have more going for them.  So I'm glad that humans have a really attractive mechanical effect.    Humans are almost always the dominate race in every story and it's nice to see that they are not the sub-par choice. 


Now, as a roleplay choice, I believe that ones pick shouldn't put them at a mechanial disadvantage.  That doesn't mean they should be at an advantage over other races though.  I don't see the Human having higher than average stats are a overpowered though.
Yes, humans are, in general, the superior option in terms of pure mechanics.   They give you more variety and flexibility in all areas, and more options to chose from.   

Yes, when you play to the strengths of a race, you get to be roughly equal to a human.   This leads to bad stereotyping of other races.  

I don't like humans being a superior choice, even by the mechanics.   There should be no such thing with core book races, not with this much playtesting.

I also really don't like how that we really don't have a -feel- for the humans, other than "master of all trades."    They give off a vibe of superiority, since they're naturally just as tough as dwarves, agile as elves.   This is an issue.

If you want to give humans the whole "flexibility / versatility" theme?   Then give them the same general advantages as other races, but let them -choose-.    +1 to any two stats of your choice.  Pick two weapons, and increase the damage dice.   Gain a free skill or two of choice.   Or gain advantage on a skill of choice.    Or ability to gain multiclassing stuff easier than anyone else.   

You get the same advantages easier than all other races, just following the theme of "versatility." 
They reduced it to simply +1 to everything

That is acceptable
+1 to every stat works for me.  It will be a big deal at first, but since stats are hard capped at 20 it's just going to mean that humans end up with better dump stats.
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish." D&D Outsider
The changes for this packet (non-humans get two +1 bonuses, one each from race and subrace; and humans get a +1 across the board) are great. It didn't respect the themes of traditional D&D races before these changes. However, it still needs a few changes. If humans were allowed a +1 to any three scores of their choice, it would make them able to match any particular race and have a little extra, while still not being able to equal more than one distinct race (as 4 scores would give them). Yes, they need some simple feature to make up for it, but a further change such as that is important for traditonal human vs non-human excellence.
I don't think the humans are overpowered to the point where everyone will want to play them. I do like them for making my bards though! If they do a bard and make it anything like in the past I always needed charisma, dexterity, and intelligence. Plus wisdom and constitution help, too. It always made having a "jack of all trades" tough when you got just one plus to your stats. 

Now I can use the human to get a big boost and still probably get one from whatever stat the bard gets.


I think in general though, the very nice racial features of the other races will keep them highly represented.

 
My perspective is pretty much the opposite, that humans are clearly the weakest of all races.

Of the non-human races, you can currently get a +1 bonus to:
* Str/Con (hill dwarf)
* Con/Wis (mountain dwarf)
* Dex/Int (high elf)
* Dex/Wis (wood elf)
* Dex/Cha (lightfoot halfling)
* Dex/Con (stout halfling)

If your niche is already covered by a race (e.g., you want to be a charismatic rogue), then we're basically comparing all of the race's racial benefits vs. the benefit of an additional +1 bonus in some of the stats you're already decided are of tertiary-or-worse importance.

Why only some?  Well, a +1 across-the-board increase means that you will likely be raising some even-numbered stats, which doesn't actually increase the bonus and has little to no benefit for most stats.

If you're using the standard array, for example, and placing your stats in order of importance for your character, that means that the difference between picking a race that gives a bonus to your primary/secondary stats and a human is (after class and racial bonuses):
17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8
vs.
17, 15, 14, 13, 11, 9

This means that the benefit to being a human is that you get a +1 bonus to your third-most-important stat, plus (maybe) some minor benefit from your worst stats.

That's not to say that benefit doesn't exist: your third-most-important stat is probably still a meaningful one, and there could certainly be builds for which, say, being able to qualify for a feat based on a dump stat is crucial.

Still, for most characters, we're talking fairly small benefits, especially when compared to the meaningful benefits that most non-human races grant.

The calculus looks a little better if you want your character to focus on stats not covered by the non-human races... until you realize that this is essentially the high point for the human race.

We will inevitably have additional races; I'd be shocked if the initial PH didn't have at least three more (and given the format so far, gnomes at least are likely to have subraces, though half-elves and half-orcs probably won't).  As various supplements increase the number of playable races, the covered stat permutations will grow.

As each additional race is added to the game, the human role of being the default choice if your character's niche doesn't match an existing race will get smaller and smaller.

To me, "+1 to all stats and nothing else" is literally the most boring and uninteresting benefit you could give a race, and makes humans basically the default option if none of the other races grab you, rather than making them a competitive choice on their own.
I very strongly agree with Bgibbons - Humans have been shafted. They were strong indeed, but now they're easily a weak choice compared to the other races. Nearly any other race has a stat combo that puts +1 in 2 important class stats, and they get other little bonuses to boot - extra cantrip, move through enemy squares 1 size larger, improved spot/listen, darkvision, low light vision, etc. I feel that most people that are looking to get the most out of their character are going to go the route of Dwarf, elf, or Lightfoot Halfling (Stout Halfling is just a dwarf with a dex instead of str and no cool dwarf abilities.)

I put a thread together that talked and compared the updates and nerfbats for races here if anyone wants to check it out: community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/...
I'm definitely pleased with the step back from the "uberhumans" of the previous packets. The concept could use a little more tweaking in my opinion. I think a +1 to two or three stats, the bonus languages, and some other more flavorful benefits is the way to go. That said, I'm willing to give +1 to all some further consideration. As it was before, I found humans to be way over the top.
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