Cloudshift Naya--Viable?

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Hey all,

I'm pretty new to these forums, browse quite a bit but never really post. After looking at the last results of the most recent SCG open and the successes of reanimator/junk (and even a cool new tech in undying evil) I wanted to throw out this version of Midrange Naya. It goes fairly big and has some good synergy. I wanted to get a public opinion of it and see what everyone else thinks about it and how it stands with the current meta. Im really looking for people to pick it apart and tell me what they absolutely hate about it, so be mean . Here is my list.

x4 avacyns pilgrim
x3 loxodon smiter
x3 huntmaster
x4 restoration angel
x4 thragtusk
x3 acidic slime
x2 thundermaw hellkite
x2 aurellia warleader

x4 farseek
x3 cloudshift
x2 conjurers closet
x2 mizzium mortars

X24 lands (2 wolf runs)

Sideboard is still in the air, I've been testing x3 fog and x2 rhox faithmenders for aggro which has been pretty solid. I'd like zealous conscripts, oblivion rings, and triumph of ferocity as well. Other than that not too sure.

Thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated!








Should move this thread to the standard deck help forums.

Also, you have no early plays in a meta that's very heavily tilted toward aggro. Cards like the closet and cloudshift take up valuable removal slots. Acidic slime is a SB card as well, even though it has a cute combination with the closet.

Are you trying to be competitive?

-3 Cloudshift
-2 Conjurer's Closet
-3 Acidic Slime

+1 Loxodon Smiter
+1 Huntmaster of the Fells
+4 Searing Spear
+2 Mizzium Mortars

With SB tech like O-rings and Rest in Peace.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

Should move this thread to the standard deck help forums.

Also, you have no early plays in a meta that's very heavily tilted toward aggro. Cards like the closet and cloudshift take up valuable removal slots. Acidic slime is a SB card as well, even though it has a cute combination with the closet.

Are you trying to be competitive?

-3 Cloudshift
-2 Conjurer's Closet
-3 Acidic Slime

+1 Loxodon Smiter
+1 Huntmaster of the Fells
+4 Searing Spear
+2 Mizzium Mortars

With SB tech like O-rings and Rest in Peace.



Thanks for the quick response rstnme, it's much appreciated!

Yes, I'm trying to be very competitive, nothing casual about this list. I understand your point for aggro in G1. I think it could be a struggle if they get a hot start and I'm not holding a smiter. I was thinking of what you had suggested and cutting closets/slimes for removal or even centaur healers, which is still an option, and I will definently try it out, Thanks!

I do disagree with where you feel the meta is currently. Recently I think it has slowed down with a bigger spike in Esper control, Junk, and more midrange type of decks. I've seen Acidic Slime shine in Esper/Jund/UWR matchups. If I can blink it once or twice I usually win pretty easily.

I also disagree with cutting Cloudshift. I think it is a blowout type of card. It is a pretty effective combat trick and just helps me stabilize. (Letting Huntmaster Flip with 5 mana, Blinking with Restoration Angel, then blinking Restoration Angel with Cloudshift targetting Huntmaster again). Cloudshift plus Aurellia is usally just a win on the spot as well. 

I appreciate the feedback and I'm looking for other's stance on this!
N/P!

The meta's still very creature and aggro-based, it's just curves have gotten higher and aggro decks curve out at 4CMC and quit being called aggro when they have a 5CMC card.

There are plenty of midrange/BTE decks out there, and then there's things like Jund Aggro who'll use all their low CMC slots to kill your creatures as you cast them or Rakdos Return your hand away before you play anything.

Then there's trample, since Rancor, Kessig Wolf Run and Ghor-Clan Rampager are still showing strong. If you flicker a blocker and the attacker has trample, all the damage goes to you.

Cloudshift just isn't very good. It's a trap of a card. In your example, you're basically planning on doing tricky things with it by T5 or T6 or so, bc you'll need the mana open to cast Resto, or the shift, and you'll want things like Huntmaster or Thrag on the field. If you topdeck into CS with a weak board position, you're screwed.

Acidic Slime is fine in the sideboard, but I don't think (unless your local meta's really screwy) it's a justified 3-of in the mainboard. I could be wrong or have a more Jund-based meta though. I'd also play Rest in Peace of Acidic Slime in the Junk matchup.

Anyway, don't listen to me without trying my suggestions. It's easy to have a gameplan in your hand and easy for me to go blah blah blah, but really, try it out and see how it plays out and see how it fits for you.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I had pretty good results with a deck with Restoration Angel, Cloudshift, and Thragtusk but my curve was lower and two mana is just smoother than three.

While I liked Cloudshift, I will say that that is usually the first thing that went out for the sideboard stuff.

This deck seems vulnerable to really fast aggro and to control. You can lose turn four if you go second pretty easily - especially if you don't hit any mana acceleration and even if you make past that, you could take so much damage early they could burn you out. Moreover, with your curve, by the time you're ready to roll, control should be well established with plenty of cards in hand.

I guess I largely agree with rstnme.
I dunno one or two slimes mainboard isn't a completely terrible move.  If nothing else you get a deathtouch stick and you can sap a land turn 5, otherwise you have a built in answer to enchantments, artifacts, etc.  Sure there are better options but it isn't like slime isn't that much worse. This is especially true because in your deck you have all the major pieces to pull off a win.  I think the closet and cloudshift should go in the better interest of a full playset of rancor.

-NW "Behold blessed perfection!" --Sheoldred, Whispering One
A G/W variant finished 9th on the second day of the Orlando Open.

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A G/W variant finished 9th on the second day of the Orlando Open.

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I wish the guy played better on camera. It seems like by the end of it he was just sorta out of it mentally. I think the deck has legs I would cut a few of the dregs though. The Conjurer's Closet is cute but just not very good. I'd cut the Borderland Rangers for more fiend hunters as this deck is extremely removal light and the interaction with cloudshift is amazingly powerful. 
Don't get why he isn't just playing Seance.

(at)MrEnglish22

A G/W variant finished 9th on the second day of the Orlando Open.

sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/di... 


I wish the guy played better on camera. It seems like by the end of it he was just sorta out of it mentally. I think the deck has legs I would cut a few of the dregs though. The Conjurer's Closet is cute but just not very good. I'd cut the Borderland Rangers for more fiend hunters as this deck is extremely removal light and the interaction with cloudshift is amazingly powerful. 




What are you referring to when you say that you're cutting some of the Dregs?

And I would agree with the Conjurer's Closet to an extent. I think it's a good SB card against Esper or any grind em out sort of match up, the problem is getting it to resolve in those match ups. Closet plus Acidic Slime for even just a turn is pretty sick.


I think I'm going to cut some of high end on my curve for more Fiend Hunter.

The deck's main problem is the lack of interaction it has with the opponent, I'm really looking for help in that department. My only real change so far has been adding Selesnya Charm to the main replacing the Closet. 
Seriously, who needs interaction when you just jam Thragtusk/Resto Angel/Conjurerer's Closet?

Also, Trostani/Seance is a very nasty combo I suggest you guys try out. I've been piddling with a list that I might play in ATL this weekend, unsure. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Seriously, who needs interaction when you just jam Thragtusk/Resto Angel/Conjurerer's Closet?

Also, Trostani/Seance is a very nasty combo I suggest you guys try out. I've been piddling with a list that I might play in ATL this weekend, unsure. 




Esper doesn't care a whole lot about that interaction, they'll just sweep the board and Reanimator will just Angel of Serenity. I would like more interaction in the form of Fiend Hunter and respond to my own trigger and Cloudshift to exile things like AoS permanently. 
Seriously, who needs interaction when you just jam Thragtusk/Resto Angel/Conjurerer's Closet?

Also, Trostani/Seance is a very nasty combo I suggest you guys try out. I've been piddling with a list that I might play in ATL this weekend, unsure. 




Esper doesn't care a whole lot about that interaction, they'll just sweep the board and Reanimator will just Angel of Serenity. I would like more interaction in the form of Fiend Hunter and respond to my own trigger and Cloudshift to exile things like AoS permanently. 



How does Selesnya Charm improve your horrible matchup? You should just focus on beating their faces in that matchup. A few indestructible/hexproof dudes can go a long way there. Or Garruks.
Also, what kind of Esper list are you playing against that doesn't just kill you with Souls or Drown you out?

Using Fiend Hunter and Cloudshift like that seems a little, bleh I guess. Its four mana and 1.5 cards for Iona's Judgment. It also works with Angel of Serenity fine. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Here comes the Esper mirror in text form. Prepare to go to time. 
Here comes the Esper mirror in text form. Prepare to go to time. 



Play more Sorins, THEN IT GETS INTERESTING.

(at)MrEnglish22

Here comes the Esper mirror in text form. Prepare to go to time. 



Play more Sorins, THEN IT GETS INTERESTING.


I have a playset of Sorins. Is it time to jam? 
Seriously, who needs interaction when you just jam Thragtusk/Resto Angel/Conjurerer's Closet?

Also, Trostani/Seance is a very nasty combo I suggest you guys try out. I've been piddling with a list that I might play in ATL this weekend, unsure. 




Esper doesn't care a whole lot about that interaction, they'll just sweep the board and Reanimator will just Angel of Serenity. I would like more interaction in the form of Fiend Hunter and respond to my own trigger and Cloudshift to exile things like AoS permanently. 



How does Selesnya Charm improve your horrible matchup? You should just focus on beating their faces in that matchup. A few indestructible/hexproof dudes can go a long way there. Or Garruks.
Also, what kind of Esper list are you playing against that doesn't just kill you with Souls or Drown you out?

Using Fiend Hunter and Cloudshift like that seems a little, bleh I guess. Its four mana and 1.5 cards for Iona's Judgment. It also works with Angel of Serenity fine. 




I was speaking mostly about Reanimator. Selesnya Charm is for their AoS. (I'm pretty sure you can use it in response to them trying to regain cards from the GY and have them exile those creatures permantly as well, but not 100% on that) Fiend Hunter just adds to the permanant exile for Reanimator. 

Esper I would obviously side out the Fiend Hunters. And the fact that Esper will just drown you out is exactly the reason why they don't care too much about the Thrag/Resto/Closet combo. They'll just sweep the board after you gain a million life. Acidic Slime with that is another story though. Garruk, Primal Hunter is something I've had in the SB and even tried him main too, but against a good Esper player, you most likely won't get it to resolve.
Here comes the Esper mirror in text form. Prepare to go to time. 

 

Play more Sorins, THEN IT GETS INTERESTING.

 
I have a playset of Sorins. Is it time to jam? 



Jam like jelly. Also, how'd the FOOLS go?

Seriously, who needs interaction when you just jam Thragtusk/Resto Angel/Conjurerer's Closet?

Also, Trostani/Seance is a very nasty combo I suggest you guys try out. I've been piddling with a list that I might play in ATL this weekend, unsure. 




Esper doesn't care a whole lot about that interaction, they'll just sweep the board and Reanimator will just Angel of Serenity. I would like more interaction in the form of Fiend Hunter and respond to my own trigger and Cloudshift to exile things like AoS permanently. 



How does Selesnya Charm improve your horrible matchup? You should just focus on beating their faces in that matchup. A few indestructible/hexproof dudes can go a long way there. Or Garruks.
Also, what kind of Esper list are you playing against that doesn't just kill you with Souls or Drown you out?

Using Fiend Hunter and Cloudshift like that seems a little, bleh I guess. Its four mana and 1.5 cards for Iona's Judgment. It also works with Angel of Serenity fine. 




I was speaking mostly about Reanimator. Selesnya Charm is for their AoS. (I'm pretty sure you can use it in response to them trying to regain cards from the GY and have them exile those creatures permantly as well, but not 100% on that) Fiend Hunter just adds to the permanant exile for Reanimator. 

Esper I would obviously side out the Fiend Hunters. And the fact that Esper will just drown you out is exactly the reason why they don't care too much about the Thrag/Resto/Closet combo. They'll just sweep the board after you gain a million life. Acidic Slime with that is another story though. Garruk, Primal Hunter is something I've had in the SB and even tried him main too, but against a good Esper player, you most likely won't get it to resolve.



There's a lot of ways to solve AoS. Charm is one of them. And yes, if you respond to the exile effect, it doesn't return their stuff.
It is also pretty dang hard to sweep the board reliably with Thragtusk out. Slime is really good against Esper. As for resolving Garruk, it isn't about play skill. Its about forcing them into a tap-out situation and jamming it in, or ramping it out instead of Thragtusk.

Or play Seance. Its my card of the day. 

(at)MrEnglish22

Here comes the Esper mirror in text form. Prepare to go to time. 

 

Play more Sorins, THEN IT GETS INTERESTING.

 
I have a playset of Sorins. Is it time to jam? 



Jam like jelly. Also, how'd the FOOLS go?


It was fine. I don't play modo often so I make clicking mistakes all the time and don't try very hard. 

I played a junk deck, it was pretty good. I died to Dark Confidant a couple of times. Essence Sliver + Ward Sliver is nuts tech.  
Here comes the Esper mirror in text form. Prepare to go to time. 

 

Play more Sorins, THEN IT GETS INTERESTING.

 
I have a playset of Sorins. Is it time to jam? 



Jam like jelly. Also, how'd the FOOLS go?

Seriously, who needs interaction when you just jam Thragtusk/Resto Angel/Conjurerer's Closet?

Also, Trostani/Seance is a very nasty combo I suggest you guys try out. I've been piddling with a list that I might play in ATL this weekend, unsure. 




Esper doesn't care a whole lot about that interaction, they'll just sweep the board and Reanimator will just Angel of Serenity. I would like more interaction in the form of Fiend Hunter and respond to my own trigger and Cloudshift to exile things like AoS permanently. 



How does Selesnya Charm improve your horrible matchup? You should just focus on beating their faces in that matchup. A few indestructible/hexproof dudes can go a long way there. Or Garruks.
Also, what kind of Esper list are you playing against that doesn't just kill you with Souls or Drown you out?

Using Fiend Hunter and Cloudshift like that seems a little, bleh I guess. Its four mana and 1.5 cards for Iona's Judgment. It also works with Angel of Serenity fine. 




I was speaking mostly about Reanimator. Selesnya Charm is for their AoS. (I'm pretty sure you can use it in response to them trying to regain cards from the GY and have them exile those creatures permantly as well, but not 100% on that) Fiend Hunter just adds to the permanant exile for Reanimator. 

Esper I would obviously side out the Fiend Hunters. And the fact that Esper will just drown you out is exactly the reason why they don't care too much about the Thrag/Resto/Closet combo. They'll just sweep the board after you gain a million life. Acidic Slime with that is another story though. Garruk, Primal Hunter is something I've had in the SB and even tried him main too, but against a good Esper player, you most likely won't get it to resolve.



There's a lot of ways to solve AoS. Charm is one of them. And yes, if you respond to the exile effect, it doesn't return their stuff.
It is also pretty dang hard to sweep the board reliably with Thragtusk out. Slime is really good against Esper. As for resolving Garruk, it isn't about play skill. Its about forcing them into a tap-out situation and jamming it in, or ramping it out instead of Thragtusk.

Or play Seance. Its my card of the day. 




I suppose, I haven't been able to push into too many tap out situations for them. Only time I really get them to tap out it seems like is if they miss a land drop or two and need to sweep a board with Smiters, Huntmasters, and Angels. 

Seance and Trostani seem almost more cute than the Closet/Cloudshift idea. But I suppose Seance in a Reanimator shell isn't a bad way to go. I feel it may be hard to set up in some matchups where Blinking with Cloudshift acts more of a combat trick. But again I'm just speaking from a theory standpoint and have no real clue to how it plays out in the meta if I tried it.  
It just sounds more powerful than closet/cloudshit/rites really. Single investment that doesn't tie up mana (Seance) and you can copy the tokens for permanent copies (Trostani) and is better against aggro (Trostani)

I haven't done any serious testing, and probably won't be able to any time soon (I've gotten nothing but scoffing from the playgroup) but it sounds solid. 

(at)MrEnglish22

It just sounds more powerful than closet/cloudshit/rites really. Single investment that doesn't tie up mana (Seance) and you can copy the tokens for permanent copies (Trostani) and is better against aggro (Trostani)

I haven't done any serious testing, and probably won't be able to any time soon (I've gotten nothing but scoffing from the playgroup) but it sounds solid. 



Sounds convincing
It just sounds more powerful than closet/cloudshit/rites really. Single investment that doesn't tie up mana (Seance) and you can copy the tokens for permanent copies (Trostani) and is better against aggro (Trostani)

I haven't done any serious testing, and probably won't be able to any time soon (I've gotten nothing but scoffing from the playgroup) but it sounds solid. 



Sounds convincing[/quote]

Well I guess I'm one out of six so far in convincing.

(at)MrEnglish22

Getting this moved.

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