Avenger Overwhelming Strike - am I required to slide enemy if I want to shift?

18 posts / 0 new
Last post
Hi, I have a question related to the Avenger's overwhelming strike.

In the overwhelming strike hit section:
"Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.  You shift 1 square and slide the target 1 square into the space you occupied."

I am aware that you are not required to move at all, but is it possible to choose to shift but not choose to slide the target to the vacated space?

Thanks ahead of time for any replies.
You don't have to slide the target in the square you vacated.

RC 212  Distance, Specific Destination, or Both: The power or other effect that produces a Forced Movement specifies a distance in squares a specific destination, or both for the movement.When a distance is specified, it is maximum;  the creature or effect producing the Forced Movement can move its target up to that number of squares  (or none at all)  that distance For instance, a character’s Power might say: ‘’You Slide the target 4 squares (or up to 4 squares); both mean the character can move the target up to 4 squares or not move it at all. . When a destination is specified, it is absolute; the creature or effect must either move the target to that destination or not move it at all. Often a destination is combined with a distance, which means the target can be moved to the destination only if it is farther away than the specified distances. For instance, a character’s Power might say, ‘’You slide the target up to 5 squares to a square adjacent to you (or 5 squares to a square adjacent to you’’ ) both meanof which mean the character can move the target up to 5 squares but only if the move end in a square adjacent to that character.

Plague: You really do, that's what the power says.

OP: yes, you do have to shift, to slide, because you can't slide the target into the square you occupied, if you are currently occupying it.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
I think the question was can you shift without sliding. Answer is yes.
Oh derp I rolled a nat. 1 on reading comprehension didn't I?
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Thanks again for the replies :D
If your a pixie, can you slide without shifting?

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

No.  Forced movement rules specifically forbid ending in an occupied square (occupied by anyone), even if you could normally move there.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
If your a pixie, can you slide without shifting?

It says "the square you occupied." Past tense.
If your a pixie, can you slide without shifting?

It says "the square you occupied." Past tense.


And if you didn't shift, you're still occupying it and the slide fails.  The destination is specified, but it is invalid as per the forced movement rules, so the slide fails.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
If your a pixie, can you slide without shifting?

No (because slides have to be into unoccupied squares).  But you can shift straight up, and pull the enemy under you.  That works great (and you won't even fall if the target's medium or smaller.)

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

If your a pixie, can you slide without shifting?

No (because slides have to be into unoccupied squares).  But you can shift straight up, and pull the enemy under you.  That works great (and you won't even fall if the target's medium or smaller.)


Did you mean "fail" or "fall"?  Because shifting straight up does not run afoul of the Pixie altitude limit, but if the target is Large or larger the slide would still be invalid, as the target would have to be pulled into the square you're now occupying as well as the square you left.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Fall.  Was refering to the altitude limit, but you are correct of course that it would be a lot trickier to do to a large creature (you'd have to already be up at square one, pull it under you ... and at that point at the end of your turn you would fall.  Hillariously enough, the large creature would still then have to respect your OA to move away: shift+charge would still provoke from your prone butt.)

Hm.  Do you even fall prone at the end of that?  What happens if you end your turn flying at altitude 2, above a large enemy?  Is Acrobatic training relevant here, or does the "descend your speed" verbage preempt it?

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

You avoid the issue by shifting diagonally up to a square it doesn't need to occupy.  And no, you don't fall prone if you end your turn above your alt limit.  You fall following the falling rules, which means that, for a flying creature, you don't fall Prone unless something specifically says you do, or knocks you out of the air from above your fly speed.

Falling on top of enemies is a case that is not dealt with in the rules.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
If your a pixie, can you slide without shifting?

It says "the square you occupied." Past tense.


And if you didn't shift, you're still occupying it and the slide fails.  The destination is specified, but it is invalid as per the forced movement rules, so the slide fails.

My point was the square isn't legal for the slide, because the specific destination "the square you occupied" doesn't exist, only the square you are occupying exists.

@kilt: You are only prone if you take damage from a fall, when a flying creature falls they subtract their fly speed from the distance of the fall: until they fall further than that, they don't take damage. So a Pixie is basically always safe from being prone after a fall.
because the specific destination "the square you occupied" doesn't exist.

....Huh?  It's the square you were in before you shifted.  How does it not exist?

kilpatds, falling only causes you to be prone if you take damage, and if you have a fly speed, that speed is subtracted from the amount of squares used to calculate damage.  A pixie ending its turn at altitude 2 will fall, but the fly speed means that he will land on the ground without taking damage and without being prone.

It's very, very hard to prone a Pixie.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
because the specific destination "the square you occupied" doesn't exist.

....Huh?  It's the square you were in before you shifted.  How does it not exist?

Because you didn't shift. My post was about how it wouldn't work if you were a Pixie and didn't shift, not because of the occupy a square rules, but because at that point you aren't doing what the power says. It was just a second point.
Ah, yes, I see now.  Two independent reasons why the slide fails.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Sign In to post comments