Man, that was a depressing finish. Should this deck have gone 3-0?

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I ended up drafting this crazy deck:

1 Boros Guildgate 8 Mountain 8 Plains
1 Foundry Street Denizen 2 Mugging
1 Madcap Skills 1 Blind Obedience 2 Daring Skyjek 2 Syndic of Tithes 1 Boros Charm 2 Sunhome Guildmage 2 Wojek Halberdiers
1 Act of Treason 1 Ember Beast 1 Warmind Infantry 2 Court Street Denizen 1 Massive Raid
1 Knight of Obligation 1 Ordruun Veteran 1 Spark Trooper
   
I really had a good feeling about this deck. I thought for sure I could get it to go 3-0. Yet I ended up 2-1 with a 4-3 game record. I lost the first game due to keeping a Denizen, Madcap, 2 Mountain, Ember Beast, 2 white card hand, and didn't see my first plains until turn 7. I lost the first game in the finals due to keeping a Guildgate, Mountain, Stacked hand, because I missed my 3rd land drop twice (got my opponent to 3 regardless) The final game I lost I flooded a 3 land hand that looked like it should have been an easy win (My opponent also flooded, but he had cards that cost more than 4 CMC so he could use it) Every win was a blowout.

So the question becomes, was this a 3-0 deck that got extremely unlucky, or should I have expected it to go 2-1? I won against Gruul, won again the first Dimir/Orzhov deck and lost to the second Dimir/Orzhov deck.
My thoughts
15 creatures + spark trooper
Extremely low curve, I woulda swapped out the boros guildgate for another creature.
I would expect this deck to have the potential to go 3-0. My experience with this sort of wham-bang boros is that you hope to curve well and just put your opponent into an uncomfortable situation before they can do much. Then even when they do start playing threats, things are awkward for them because they're already low on life.
If you stumble though, you stumble hard. The deck is based on early pressure and if you fail that, you have nothing going for you.

Again, this deck could certainly go 3-0 but there's some luck involved. Earlier this week I was the only gruul drafter at the table, got 2 rampager 2 ground assault 2 pit fight low aggressive curve really the best gruul you could hope for (without clan defiance) and I lost to a weird esper aggro deck round 1 because I flooded in 2 games whereas he had perfectly sick curveouts. I won the next two rounds easily but was still really annoyed that I didn't 3-0 that deck. I guess "that's magic" and there is a luck component that we try to minimize by drafting decks like this that should be very consistent but still sometimes can get unlucky.
Coming from someone who plays Standard Aggro:

This is an extremely strong aggro deck for draft, although it suffers from one of the major issues that aggro decks all faulter with, and that's burn-out.  As Krarks said, it's got a low curve (Topping out at an impressive 4, something that is hard to do in draft), and the guildgate is probably not worth it over another creature or other threat.  It seems you've made mistake that I see a lot of people who run aggro do, and that's adhering to the land-rule.  I see plenty of aggro decks run more land than they really need to, and this can lead to severe burn-out in the mid game.

And the note on the Dimir player also flooding, but winning due to higher cost spells is an important thing to keep in mind.  This sort of deck wants to burn out the opponent before they get to that point, and is very fragile if things go ary.  More fragile than more mid-rangy type of decks which can more effectively play around land flood. 

Basically, you've found first-hand the swingy nature in Boros as a guild.  If things don't go well for you at first, its only going to get worse.  Your opponents will have better mid-game potential the longer the game goes on.  This is part of the reason I don't like drafting the guild in particular (The other of which is due to overdrafting).  It's just a finicky deck that's a bit overhyped, particularly in draft settings. 

I've beaten boros, as far as I can recall, in every single match-up I've gone against a player playing it regardless of guild (Usually as Orzhov, but last night I played a mean Simic that was unstoppably good;  I blame the rest of the pod who felt it was appropriate to pass me three Cloudfin raptors in pack 1 among other such silliness).  It's a usually a glass tiger build.  Explosive, but shatters easily with the removal or shutting down of the key creatures.

That said, if I were to go boros this is about as good as I could hope to get(Plus some Elites, but you can't really expect to get everything good).
This looks like it has the potential to go 3-0. No decks "should go 3-0", it requires skill and luck to get there. I just drafted a really strong Simic deck and went out in round one. It happens.

I like the deck, though I would have liked it even more with another creature or two.
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I would have considered running 16 lands if I hadn't had the 4 extorters. With the extorters I ended up wishing I had more lands in some of the games, or specifically more plains. Extortion led to a lot of opponent loses and consessions. It's no fun to take early damage and then be looking down the barrel of an inevitable extortion loss. As for the individual cards, I was amazed how little millage I ended up getting out of the Muggings. I was psyched to finally get a Boros deck with 2 of them, I thought for sure that I'd be able to use them to knock out early blockers, while keeping the pressure on with additional creature drops, but that never once happened. I had very bad luck in that both Esper opponents were loaded up with 3 and 4 toughness 3 drops. When the Muggings were helpful they were killing off Assault Griffins, 2 toughness extorters and guildmages, never pushing through early damage. The Court Street Denizens performed better than expected. It almost doesn't seem fair when you get them in multiples.

The only cards I felt like I could have gotten to make this better (but didn't) were Boros Elites and Truefire Paladins. Oh yeah, and Skyknight Legionnaires, it's very odd I didn't see one of them, since I picked up my first Sunhome Guildmage P1P6 I didn't think anyone else was in Boros.

Also, I did have some higher CMC cards I could have run. Angelic Edict, Debtor's Pulpit. Urbis Protector and Ripscale Predator. I just thought it would be clunky to include them in the deck since the mana costs in the rest of the deck topped out at 4 CMC.
Here, in my opinion, is an even better Boros deck, which I piloted to a 2-1 victory losing 2-0 in the final to Gridlock (I am earning some serious respect for that card), which goes to show there really is no "should 3-0" deck.

Land (16)
9 Mountains
7 Plains

Creatures (17)
2xFoundry Street Denizen
Wojek Halberdiers
Truefire Paladin
2xSyndic of Tithes 
Daring Skyjek 
Firefist Striker
2xBomber Corps  
Court Street Denizen
Skyknight Legionnaire 
Warmind Infantry 
Firemane Avenger
Scorchwalker
Assault Griffin
Foundry Champion - foil 
         
Spells (7)
Mugging
Blind Obedience - I am not sure that I would run this again
Five-Alarm Fire
Massive Raid
Act of Treason 
Boros Keyrune   
Assemble the Legion
I like the Truefire, Firemane and Assemble much more than my top 3 cards, but I like the rest of the deck less. Call it a draw on which one is the better deck overall :-p
3-0 decks have more removal and less enchantments.

Court Street Denizen is not good.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I like the Truefire, Firemane and Assemble much more than my top 3 cards, but I like the rest of the deck less. Call it a draw on which one is the better deck overall :-p



Seems fair Tongue Out
3-0 decks have more removal and less enchantments.

Court Street Denizen is not good.



I had another Massive Raid, Act of Treason and Angelic Edict that I subbed in from time to time, depending on what my opponent was running. But I have to disagree that Court-Street Denizen is not good. I don't love it in Orzhov, but every Boros deck should be running them. One of the few things that stops Boros is your opponent having one solid blocker. Denizen takes out a blocker per turn, but isn't required to attack the way the Firefist Striker is. If you have a Sunhome Guildmage in play you can even tap during your opponent's turn for an alphastrike the following turn.
I like the Truefire, Firemane and Assemble much more than my top 3 cards, but I like the rest of the deck less. Call it a draw on which one is the better deck overall :-p



Seems fair Tongue Out



No, I'm kidding, those 3 cards are enough to push your deck over the top, even if my deck minus the top 3 cards is slightly better than your deck minus the top 3 cards. I also think you were correct in running the obedience, I got a lot of milage out of the Denizens, Muggings and Obedience allowing me to push through damage that I could not have pushed through otherwise. Obedience is one of the rare extortion cards that works better in Boros than Orzhov. I'm not certain you were right in only running 16 land though, you had nearly as much extortion as me, and your curve didn't end at 4 mana.

Also, there is such thing as a should have gone 3-0 deck. If the best player at the table is piloting the best deck at the table, 3-0 is the expected the result, randomness is the only thing left that could potentially prevent that from happening. For example, I was running 17 lands and I could have efficently run 16, yet I lost two games to mana short and only one game to mana flood. Mana related losses account for the only losses incurred.
I agree with SB.

Court Street Denizen is a really strong card in Boros and I would run multiples if I could.  Even without obscene cards like Assemble the Legion this thing taps down a creature most turns and can still attack.  On this, I am going to start another thread, actually, two. 
I think it should be noted cards that are only good as a result of other cards aren't actually good. CSD can do a lot of work in a list, and is great when you have multiples and a low curve. I was crushed one game playing against someone who had 3 out. But my opponent was Boros, on the play, and curved out, and I stumbled on my mana draw and fell behind on playables. CSD didn't change the board much beyond making sure my Basillica Screechers couldn't block. That game was decided by my mana stumble and my slightly too-high curve, not the CSD.

Which is to say, it's the sort of card that looks awesome when you're already winning, but it won't pull you from behind and it generally won't break parity. Good cards, in my book, will pull you from behind to give you the win. I'm not particularly interested in how it synergizes with a rare bomb like Assemble either, since Assemble is good with or without CSD.

As for the comments about mana issue... just... /sigh.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

CSD is great in Boros with or without multiples. It's not a win-more card, it's an early pressure/alphastrike card. If you can do enough damage early to your opponent they will quickly reach a point where they can never attack you again because the blocking that is prevented by CSD means they are always 1 full attack away from dying. Then it's up to you to figure out how you want to close out the game. It's also a fun way to make an existing alphastrike that much better. For example, I had an opponent who left back a single blocker because I had stumbled on mana and gotten behind. I had out an Ordruun Veteran, Court Street Denizen and I was able to play Spark Trooper, tap his only blocker and swing 20 points of damage in a single turn. Tapping a creature per turn by playing out creatures that you were going to play anyway is very powerful. Add on a 2/2 body that you can attack with if your opponent's entire side in incapacitated and you have an auto-include in most Boros decks.
CSD is great in Boros with or without multiples. It's not a win-more card, it's a win early card. If you can do enough damage early to your opponent they will quickly reach a point where they can never attack you again because the blocking that is prevented by CSD means they are always 1 turn away from dying. Then it's up to you to figure out how you want to close out the game. It's also a fun way to make an existing alphastrike that much better. For example, I had an opponent who left back a single blocker because I had stumbled on mana and gotten behind one game. I had out a Ordruun Veteran, Court Street Denizen and I drew my fourth mana so I could play my Spark Trooper, tap his only blocker and swing 20 points of damage in a single turn.



? You have to be able to think of a better example than that to convince me. Top decking into being able to play a rare isn't proof CSD is good it's proof your elemental is good. Also a little confused on how that math works--20 damage?? Did you give the elemental double-strike somehow? How'd you play the veteran with only 3 mana????

Like I said, this card needs a developed board to be good, one that's more developed than your opponent's, or an idiot opponent who sees CSD on the battlefield so leaves one blocker around. I don't see Firefist Striker deciding that many games.

To note, this is a thread about why your "great" decks didn't perform great and I'm just pointing out their weaknesses.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.


? You have to be able to think of a better example than that to convince me. Top decking into being able to play a rare isn't proof CSD is good it's proof your elemental is good. Also a little confused on how that math works--20 damage?? Did you give the elemental double-strike somehow? How'd you play the veteran with only 3 mana????

Like I said, this card needs a developed board to be good, one that's more developed than your opponent's, or an idiot opponent who sees CSD on the battlefield so leaves one blocker around. I don't see Firefist Striker deciding that many games.

To note, this is a thread about why your "great" decks didn't perform great and I'm just pointing out their weaknesses.



Sorry, that should have read as 20-point life swing. The Trooper has lifelink.

I also realized that I must have had the 4 mana the previous turn to play my veteran. I think I might have been waiting on my second mountain. Or perhaps I just realized that playing the Ordruun first was much better. Regardless it was a huge swing, from being hopelessly behind the entire game to suddenly being far enough ahead that my opponent had to be serious about holding back blockers, which made it a sure win for me eventually. I would have left back the single blocker too if I were my opponent, he had no idea the swing was coming, the blocker only existed because it came into play that turn.

It's not just a blocker with CSD and Firefist, it is your opponent's best blocker. That is very important. And if your opponent's best blocker is also their best attacker, they will often attack with it because they figure it will be tapped anyway. I know from experience, playing against a deck with CSD that it seems like it isn't the CSD that wins it, that it is the rest of your opponent's fast start, but I also know that it makes it near impossible to come back once your life-total is below a certain point.