Copy effects and X/X creatures?

7 posts / 0 new
Last post
So...you have an X/X creature created with some effect that makes those like Slime Molding.

And then you clone that creature.  Is the clone's P/T equal to the token's P/T, or is it 0/0?

Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision.

The value of X chosen for the Ooze token when it was created is a copiable value of that creature token.  As such, a Clone (or similar card) that enters the battlefield as a copy of that token will enter with identical power and toughness to the original token.
The value of X chosen for the Ooze token when it was created is a copiable value of that creature token

The way you said this is weird. No value was chosen for X, and there isn't any "X" on the token, so it follows that there isn't any "copiable value for X" on the token either.

Slime Molding simply creates a vanilla creature token. If you paid 3 into X, you get a 3/3 token, not an X/X token that remembers a value.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

The value of X chosen for the Ooze token when it was created is a copiable value of that creature token

The way you said this is weird. No value was chosen for X, and there isn't any "X" on the token, so it follows that there isn't any "copiable value for X" on the token either.

Slime Molding simply creates a vanilla creature token. If you paid 3 into X, you get a 3/3 token, not an X/X token that remembers a value.


No, what he meant is what does he gets if he copies an ooze token created with Slime Molding.

OP, as said the token HAS a FIXED P/T, it is not a characteristic defining ability such as the one on Consuming Aberration.

The printed P/T on the token IS the value decided for X on the Slime Molding that created it.

Dunno if I'm that clear. :P

Rules Advisor

The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

No value was chosen for X

Absolutely false:
107.3a If a spell (...) has a mana cost (...) with an {X}, (...) the controller of that spell (...) chooses and announces the value of X as part of casting the spell...

there isn't any "copiable value for X" on the token either (...) you get a 3/3 token, not an X/X token that remembers a value.

Oh, but the token DOES remember the X value!
Let's say, for example, you diminish the token: it becomes 1/1, but if you then Clone it, the Clone will be 3/3.
Therefore, X=3 is remembered.



(now don't you go on nitpicking as to whether it is «the Game» nor the token that remembers X=3; that would be lame)

The spell has a variable, X. The value for X is chosen as the spell is cast, and you this then determines the cost of the spell.

However, the token doesn't have a variable. Its power and toughness are constants, defined at creation. It's not a "X/X token, where X is 3". It's a "3/3 token".

It's like if you have 5 life and cast Stream of Life for 3. You then have 8 life. Your life total doesn't contain a variable and it doesn't keep track of any X. Only the Stream of Life itself had the X.
Tokens created with certain characteristics have those characteristics innately.

They are copiable values.

So those characteristics will be copied.

eg. I cast Heat Shimmer at my opponent's Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
my token has Ulamog's characteristics innately and when the legend rule puts both in the yard, I do get to shuffle my graveyard into my library because the token has the trigger in the graveyard

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out