Cloudshift question

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If I attack with a creature, lets say a 2/2 and someone defends with a 4/4.  I then cast Giant Growth to make mine a 5/5.  My opponent not wanting to lose his 4/4 due to some other ability it has then casts Cloudshift to exile him, then return him.  When does he get exile and when does he get returned.  Do they both happen immediately.  What would happen to the 4/4 as a blocker.  Does he block and get destroyed or does my attacker get through since he was exiled for a brief moment?
the exile and return happens nearly at the same time
your attacker is still blocked, but will not deal any damage unless it has trample
proud member of the 2011 community team
When does he get exile and when does he get returned.

One immediately after the other when the spell is resolving.

Do they both happen immediately.

Every player gets a chance to cast spells and activate abilities in response to him casting Cloudshift. If someone opts to do so, Cloudshift will resolve after that spell or ability resolves and . If noone opts to do so, Cloudshift will resolve immediately after being cast.

What would happen to the 4/4 as a blocker.

It no longer exists.

Does he block and get destroyed

No, it can't, since it no longer exists. The card now represents a completely different 4/4.

or does my attacker get through since he was exiled for a brief moment?

Your attacker was blocked, so it doesn't get to assign damage to player or planeswalker it is attacking unless it has trample. It doesn't matter that the blocker no longer exists.

When the 4/4 returns, it is no longer in combat. It is no longer a 'blocker', but the attacker is still blocked.
What would happen to the 4/4 as a blocker?

When a creature leaves the Battlefield and then comes back, the game of Magic considers it to be a whole new creature, unrelated to the one that left, even if your are using the same physical piece of cardboard to represent it. Thus, the 4/4 comes back as a new creature, unrelated to the «other» 4/4 that blocked and left combat.

400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence...

Sorry we had to increase taxes: my limo needs new tires. (eh! they were two weeks old)

Also, in specific answer to the first part of your question, since Cloudshift says to "exile target creature you control, then return [it] to the battlefield under your control", both the exile and return effects are a part of the spell's resolution. No other spells or effects can interrupt or otherwise split those effects, and nothing can be played in between the time the creature leaves play and returns to the battlefield. Even something like Voidslime would merely counter the whole spell, not just part of it.

In other words, while it's logically impossible for both events to truly happen simultaneously, as far as the game state is concerned, they do.
To whom it may concern: it's getting really old, being unable to see the top half of anything autocarded in the first post of each thread. Fixplz,kthx.
In other words, while it's logically impossible for both events to truly happen simultaneously, as far as the game state is concerned, they do.


Can't think of anything that would make a practical difference, but the game state is well aware of the order.  If both actions were simultaneous, then you could order Thragtusk's triggers in which ever order you wanted, instead the life gain trigger will always be on top of the token trigger.
In other words, while it's logically impossible for both events to truly happen simultaneously, as far as the game state is concerned, they do.

I'm incomfortable with the word «simultaneously» in this situation. It's sequential (one after the other) so it just can't be simultaneous (both at the same time).
Wouldn't you rather say «uninteruptable sequence» or something in that vein? 

Sorry we had to increase taxes: my limo needs new tires. (eh! they were two weeks old)

If both actions were simultaneous, then you could order Thragtusk's triggers in which ever order you wanted

Duh? We CAN order those triggers any way we want, even though the actions are sequential.

the life gain trigger will always be on top of the token trigger.

Wrong.

Sorry we had to increase taxes: my limo needs new tires. (eh! they were two weeks old)

Could have sworn the order ruling was based on shared triggers.  I'm blaming the rules pixies changing it over night.

603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player,
in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she
chooses. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions
until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This
process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the
appropriate player gets priority.

Well, whatever. Apparently I'm an idiot and I should just stop trying to help people. I'm on the verge of quitting this game, as is.
To whom it may concern: it's getting really old, being unable to see the top half of anything autocarded in the first post of each thread. Fixplz,kthx.
when we descend into the pits of the details of the Magic Rules mistake can easily happen

don't beat yourself up about it, we all made and make mistakes
proud member of the 2011 community team
If we want to get down right to the extreme details, yes there are two events that occur during the resolution of Cloudshift.

The first is the move of the object to exile, the second is the return of the object from exile.

The triggers do trigger at those precise moments so the leaves the field trigger of a Cloudshifted Thragtusk will actually trigger mere moments before the enters the field trigger will trigger.

Then when priority is about to be given to the active player those waiting triggers are put on the stack and can be put on in a different order than the order in which they actually triggered.

It is kind of weird, but it is what it is.

edit: technically, there's three events - I forgot one, the last event is Cloudshift leaving the stack for the graveyard.

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

Well, whatever. Apparently I'm an idiot

Your previous post contained accurate and helpful info; it also contained minor quirks, which we nitpicked you for. From this alone, it cannot be concluded that you are an idiot. But perhaps you know things we don't? Wink

I should just stop trying to help people.

Helping others* is the most unthankfull of all activities: ask any parent!

*unless you get paid for it. 


I'm on the verge of quitting this game, as is.

Drop the Forum first, if you really must; hang on to the game!

Sorry we had to increase taxes: my limo needs new tires. (eh! they were two weeks old)

*unless you get paid for it. 

indeed, I get to judge my first event tomorrow (FNM) 

basically, I do the same thing I do here, but I get a 1/4 box of boosters for it Laughing

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

Be prepared: anytime you'll make a ruling, half the people will hate you.

Sorry we had to increase taxes: my limo needs new tires. (eh! they were two weeks old)

ah yes, leaving the Ivory Tower of the interwebs for the hands-on experience of Relentless Assault

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

Be prepared: anytime you'll make a ruling, half the people will hate you.


I can't disagree with this more... In the vast majority of judge calls, there is a simple question about how a card interaction works. You provide the correct answer, and the players thank you. Just because a player finds out that a card interaction doesn't work in his or her favor doesn't mean that he or she will "hate you." At worst, that player will be disappointed, but generally still grateful to know how it actually works.

The calls where a player may be upset is when you have to hand out a penalty, but that doesn't really happen at Regular REL anyway.

Please don't discourage people who want to judge by saying that players will hate them, because that's simply not the case. Of all the judge calls I've ever had, only maybe 10 required me to make a decision that would benefit one player and upset the other (usually due to poor communication between the players). And yes, those can be difficult and I take them very seriously to feel comfortable that I'm making the best ruling. But when you make rulings based on policy, the players don't have a reason to hate you. If they get upset, they're upset at themselves for making an error.

Level 3 DCI Judge Mission Viejo, CA

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