Cryptoplasm, some questions.

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I have a few questions about Cryptoplasm and the rules.

1. Based on the wording of the card I assume you are choosing a creature every upkeep. I assume that it can be the same creature each turn as long as that creature is still in play during your upkeep. I assume, based on the wording, that if that creature leaves play that during your next turn that you'd have to choose a new creature to copy or have Cryptoplasm not be a copy of any creature that turn. Are these correct assumptions?

2. If Cryptoplasm becomes a copy of a card like Dominus of Fealty does it get to use Dominus' ability that turn? Both say 'at the beginning of your upkeep' but something I read here a long time ago makes me think that it may not work because of timing or something.
So if you have Cryptoplasm become a copy of the Dominus can you now, during this same upkeep, use Cryptoplasm copy of Dominus to take control of a target permanent?


Thanks in advance.
Any extra information anyone can toss out about this creature would be appreciated.

Yes, or you can choose not to copy anything. It's a "may" ability. You only have to choose a target, if one is available, then choose whether to copy it as the ability resolves. You can simply choose "no" to keep it as a copy of whatever it already is. You can't ever have Cryptoplasm stop being a copy of anything once it's copied something. The copy effect doesn't have a duration. You can just choose to apply a new copy effect to overwrite whatever it was copying before.

Once the upkeep starts, no more "beginning of upkeep" abilities can trigger if they're gained later during the upkeep step. You can't copy Dominus on one upkeep and also get the trigger in the same upkeep, because the ability didn't exist as the upkeep began. You'd have to wait for your next upkeep to begin. A copy will have all printed text of whatever it's copying, and the abilities will both trigger on upkeep. You can stack them in any order since you control both, but both will resolve regardless of the order.

Level 3 DCI Judge Mission Viejo, CA

1. you can choose the same creature
you cannot choose Cryptoplasm, that's what the "another" means

2. no
the "beginning of the upkeep" is only once each turn
the Cyptominus will not let you Threaten a permanent unless it was a Dominus at the beginning of the upkeep
proud member of the 2011 community team
1. Based on the wording of the card I assume you are choosing a creature every upkeep. I assume that it can be the same creature each turn as long as that creature is still in play during your upkeep. I assume, based on the wording, that if that creature leaves play that during your next turn that you'd have to choose a new creature to copy or have Cryptoplasm not be a copy of any creature that turn. Are these correct assumptions?

Almost. There's only one thing you got wrong. It says you may have it become a copy of target creature. You are forced to select a legal target every upkeep, but you can choose to ignore its ability.

2. If Cryptoplasm becomes a copy of a card like Dominus of Fealty does it get to use Dominus' ability that turn? Both say 'at the beginning of your upkeep' but something I read here a long time ago makes me think that it may not work because of timing or something.
So if you have Cryptoplasm become a copy of the Dominus can you now, during this same upkeep, use Cryptoplasm copy of Dominus to take control of a target permanent?

The beginning of your upkeep only happens once (usually) per turn. After Cryptoplasm triggers, it's no longer the beginning of your upkeep. You'll have to wait for your next turn to get the Dominus trigger.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

1) It's a "you may" ability, so you don't have to transform it at all if you don't want to. You do have to at least choose a creature, though. This means that if your Cryptoplasm is copying a long-gone Worldspine Wurm, you can still use its ability to get rid of a Phantasmal Bear without having to commit to changing what it's copying.

2) No, it will have to wait until next turn. There is only one "moment" in each step when all "at the beginning..." abilities trigger. So, no, you'd have to wait for the next turn to steal your opponent's permanent.
1. Based on the wording of the card I assume you are choosing a creature every upkeep. I assume that it can be the same creature each turn as long as that creature is still in play during your upkeep. I assume, based on the wording, that if that creature leaves play that during your next turn that you'd have to choose a new creature to copy or have Cryptoplasm not be a copy of any creature that turn. Are these correct assumptions?


You're overlooking something important: the word "may."  Cryptoplasm doesn't have to become a copy of anything at the beginning of your upkeep; or, more importantly, it doesn't have to change from what it is.  It sounds to me like you think that if you choose not to have Cryptoplasm become a copy of anything, then it reverts back to its original 2/2 status, which it does not.  It remains whatever you made it a copy of until you want it to be something else.  This means that if it's copying something that leaves the battlefield, it can remain as a copy of that.
2. If Cryptoplasm becomes a copy of a card like Dominus of Fealty does it get to use Dominus' ability that turn? Both say 'at the beginning of your upkeep' but something I read here a long time ago makes me think that it may not work because of timing or something.
So if you have Cryptoplasm become a copy of the Dominus can you now, during this same upkeep, use Cryptoplasm copy of Dominus to take control of a target permanent?


Thanks in advance.
Any extra information anyone can toss out about this creature would be appreciated.



You will not be able to use Dominus of Fealty's ability right away because of the timing.  Cryptoplasm triggers at the beginning of the upkeep, and at that point in time it is not Dominus of Fealty.  During your next turn after it copies Dominus of Fealty, both abilities will trigger and then you can take advantage of either or both of them.

Rules Advisor

1/ You have to target another creature, and you decide as the ability resolve if the Cryptoplasm will become a copy of it.

2/ No. As the Cryptoplasm becomes a copy of the dominus of Fealty, the "beginning of upkeep" is already passed. You will have to wait the upkeep of your next turn.

Extra info : if another creature (like Clone) becomes a copy of Cryptoplasm (wether that Cryptoplasm is copying something else or not), it will also copy the triggered ability of the Cryptoplasm.
Yes, or you can choose not to copy anything. It's a "may" ability. You only have to choose a target, if one is available, then choose whether to copy it as the ability resolves. You can simply choose "no" to keep it as a copy of whatever it already is. You can't ever have Cryptoplasm stop being a copy of anything once it's copied something. The copy effect doesn't have a duration. You can just choose to apply a new copy effect to overwrite whatever it was copying before.


Ah...I see....its the 'may' thing that I wasnt paying enough attention to.
So the Cryptoplasm can remain a copy of a creature indefinitely because it doesnt HAVE to use the copy ability every upkeep like I assumed.

Once the upkeep starts, no more "beginning of upkeep" abilities can trigger if they're gained later during the upkeep step. You can't copy Dominus on one upkeep and also get the trigger in the same upkeep, because the ability didn't exist as the upkeep began. You'd have to wait for your next upkeep to begin. A copy will have all printed text of whatever it's copying, and the abilities will both trigger on upkeep. You can stack them in any order since you control both, but both will resolve regardless of the order.

This is what we thought was the case. It came up months ago but I forgot to ask about it until it came up again last evening.


1) It's a "you may" ability, so you don't have to transform it at all if you don't want to. You do have to at least choose a creature, though. This means that if your Cryptoplasm is copying a long-gone Worldspine Wurm, you can still use its ability to get rid of a Phantasmal Bear without having to commit to changing what it's copying.


This is a very interesting point. Definitely would not have figured this one out on my own in a million years.



You're overlooking something important: the word "may."  Cryptoplasm doesn't have to become a copy of anything at the beginning of your upkeep; or, more importantly, it doesn't have to change from what it is.  It sounds to me like you think that if you choose not to have Cryptoplasm become a copy of anything, then it reverts back to its original 2/2 status, which it does not.  It remains whatever you made it a copy of until you want it to be something else.  This means that if it's copying something that leaves the battlefield, it can remain as a copy of that.


I definitely missed a huge detail on the card :D
I was hoping I had it wrong. The card seems to be great but not so much if it was forced to change every turn.
Definitely buying a playset now that this is figured out
Another question I forgot to add to the OP.

What happens when Cryptoplasm becomes a copy of a card that has an ability that is triggered when it enters the battlefield such as Pelakka Wurm?
Does the ability trigger just like when the Pelakka Wurm enters the battlefield so I'd gain 7 life...and if so can I do it every turn?
Another question I forgot to add to the OP.

What happens when Cryptoplasm becomes a copy of a card that has an ability that is triggered when it enters the battlefield such as Pelakka Wurm?
Does the ability trigger just like when the Pelakka Wurm enters the battlefield so I'd gain 7 life...and if so can I do it every turn?


Nothing is entering the battlefield (a permanent already on the battlefield is just changing what it looks like), so the trigger condition wont be satisfied, so the ability wont trigger. 

~ Tim 

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Another question I forgot to add to the OP.

What happens when Cryptoplasm becomes a copy of a card that has an ability that is triggered when it enters the battlefield such as Pelakka Wurm?
Does the ability trigger just like when the Pelakka Wurm enters the battlefield so I'd gain 7 life...and if so can I do it every turn?


Nothing is entering the battlefield (a permanent already on the battlefield is just changing what it looks like), so the trigger condition wont be satisfied, so the ability wont trigger. 

~ Tim 



Cool. Thanks. Just want to make sure we arent doing things wrong :-)
However, if it died as a Pelakka Wurm, you would draw a card.

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
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DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
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If it gets flickered, does it come back as a cryptoplasm, or as what it was copying. (I'm thinking cryptoplasm, but not sure.)
it will come back as Cryptoplasm
proud member of the 2011 community team
I have a similar creature I wanted to ask about so I didnt want to create a new thread because its so close to the original here.

Shapesharer

Can you use the ability on this creature to copy the Dominus of Fealty BEFORE the upkeep begins so you can use the Shapesharer to take control of target permanent?

Thanks in advance.
Any other insight would be appreciated.
no

you need multiple upkeeps for this trick to work
proud member of the 2011 community team
no

you need multiple upkeeps for this trick to work


ok....I didnt think it would but I figured I'd better check....
Thanks
another question about Cryptoplasm and Shapesharer....do they copy the casting cost of the copied creature as well or just everything but the casting cost?

thanks in advance
yes, the mana cost is one of the copiable values
proud member of the 2011 community team
yes, the mana cost is one of the copiable values


Great.
This just keeps getting better
Mana cost is a copiable characteristic. In fact, it is mainly because mana cost is copiable that most copies copy the original's colour - they do not copy colour directly, they just copy all the things it is normally derived from.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
Mana cost is a copiable characteristic. In fact, it is mainly because mana cost is copiable that most copies copy the original's colour - they do not copy colour directly, they just copy all the things it is normally derived from.


cool...thanks
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